MTA. ADA

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MTA. ADA
Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 20 08:07:00 2019 ADA
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Allan* on Fri Sep 20 11:43:43 2019, in response to MTA. ADA, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 20 08:07:00 2019.* More steps forward.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Fri Sep 20 14:01:00 2019, in response to MTA. ADA, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 20 08:07:00 2019.* Question for y'all, can anyone name any stations that would be impossible for the installation of an ADA elevator ? Bill Newkirk
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Allan* on Fri Sep 20 14:08:12 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Sep 20 14:01:00 2019.* There probably are. One problem I can see is that because of the way the station was built, they might be able to do street to mezzanine but not necessarily mezzanine to platform. I don't know how they would handle a station that has only a single stair from street to platform.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Bill Newkirk* on Fri Sep 20 14:19:39 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Allan on Fri Sep 20 14:08:12 2019.* There probably are. I can name one, Newkirk Plaza. I feel the platform at it's widest point is too narrow for an elevator and for someone in a wheelchair to navigate around the columns. Bill Newkirk
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Allan* on Fri Sep 20 14:40:54 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Sep 20 14:19:39 2019.* A good example is 14 St on the 4/5/6. Structurally there is no room for an elevator from mezzanine to platform.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by William A. Padron* on Sat Sep 21 13:39:01 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Sep 20 14:01:00 2019.* The two stations on the Brighton Line, Beverly Road and Cortelyou Road. The platforms are way too narrower! -William A. Padron ["BRT"]
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Sep 21 13:59:39 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Allan on Fri Sep 20 14:40:54 2019.* so, it will be much more expensive...when the ## of boomers w/walkers,inchair becomes a critical mass, the die will be cast.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Sat Sep 21 14:51:36 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 21 13:59:39 2019.* when the ## of boomers w/walkers,in chair becomes a critical mass, the die will be cast. I'm in that category, no wheelchair yet, I walk without a cane, albeit ,slowly. I seek elevators and or escalators when I ride transit.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Allan* on Sat Sep 21 14:54:21 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Sep 21 13:39:01 2019.* Parkside Av as well
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Sep 21 15:46:29 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Sep 21 14:51:36 2019.* I have good knee and bad knee days. I, too, seek elevators/escalators both to assuge the knees and the lungs. Several friends now either w/walkers or in chairs as well as a god daughter in a chair for 30 years whose situation raised my consciousness the hard way. (dispute w/bambi on the highway = broken neck)
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Sep 21 15:49:03 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Allan on Sat Sep 21 14:54:21 2019.* If this were a DOD project, the engineering would be overpriced, but accomplished. With all of the right wing whining of "unfunded mandates" it was Robert Dole who as a disabled vet pushed through the ADA.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Sat Sep 21 16:22:34 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 21 15:46:29 2019.* Thank you, Jackson Park B train
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Joe V* on Sat Sep 21 17:08:25 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Sep 21 13:39:01 2019.* Out of the whole J line: Essex, Myrtle, ENY, Norwood. What is the busiest station along Fulton St ? Wouldn't the all-stop Crescent St be a better choice ? Why nothing along Jamaica Ave ? You'd think the all-stop Woodhaven Blvd with the beloved Q52/53 SBS would be a priority, though they are doing it for the corresponding IND stations on Queens Blvd and at Rockaway Blvd. Why nothing on the Myrtle el ? Hipsters don't need ADA ? Is there another ongoing ADA station program ?
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Pragmatist* on Sat Sep 21 17:59:25 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 21 15:49:03 2019.* The ADA votes were not even close....the House Bill, The Senate Bill, and the Conference Bill (final)had very strong support...
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by AlM* on Sat Sep 21 18:04:52 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Allan on Fri Sep 20 14:40:54 2019.* Structurally there is no room for an elevator from mezzanine to platform. So people keep saying, but I don't actually understand why.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Sep 21 18:27:49 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Pragmatist on Sat Sep 21 17:59:25 2019.* yes. My point was that because Dole, a vet was behind it, few GOP folks balked. In more recent years SCOTUS actually ruled that a Tenn court building had no need to make the courts accessible. Some justice!
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Sat Sep 21 18:32:17 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by AlM on Sat Sep 21 18:04:52 2019.* There is not enough political will to force whatever modifications are necessary. Obviously the platforms are very narrow, not to mention the pop out bridges for the downtown locals. That said given it is an express station, it still should be done IMHO.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Pragmatist* on Sat Sep 21 18:46:57 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 21 18:32:17 2019.* I get the impression that the big issue with the MTA is how they have dragged their feet at locations that don't have that type of impediment. If they had presented a reasonable path forward, and stuck to it, things would be very different.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Kevin from Midwood* on Sat Sep 21 19:03:04 2019, in response to MTA. ADA, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 20 08:07:00 2019.* What amount of disruption will this work wreak? Kings Highway on the N was completely redone over the past 4 years, with each exit alternately closed for months at a time. As for 36/4, that station has other serious problems that need to be addressed. It could really use additional staircases and exits. One of the two that lead to the northbound platform is frequently blocked off with tape when it rains (and at Pacific, they also tape off a staircase leading to the southbound platform, as well as the rightmost one below the skylight area that leads down to the main Atlantic passageway—pretty much every time it rains more than a drizzle).
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Andrew Saucci* on Sat Sep 21 19:07:18 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Sep 20 14:01:00 2019.* At the risk of stating the obvious, the installation of an elevator is never is really impossible. The only question is how much money it will cost, how much inconvenience is required, and whether more property can be condemned to make it possible. The way the MTA does things, at a difficult station, I could easily see a single elevator leading to $1 billion in expenses to condemn buildings overhead, widen the tunnel, move the tracks to make room for a wider platform, and carve a larger-than-life bas relief of Governor Cuomo into the tunnel wall. That said, in today's environment, if it were that tough, probably what would happen is that the station would be closed altogether so that no one could benefit from it. They'd just add the $1 billion to a sinkhole like ESA or one more station on the Second Avenue line.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by AlM* on Sat Sep 21 19:25:11 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 21 18:32:17 2019.* not to mention the pop out bridges for the downtown locals Those should definitely not be mentioned, because the northern part of the downtown platform is wider, and if there is room for an elevator anywhere it is on the northern half of the downtown platform. The uptown platform is narrower; I can see problems with that but I've never heard any explanation of an insurmountable problem.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by AlM* on Sat Sep 21 19:26:31 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Sep 21 19:07:18 2019.* I understand you are being humorous, but I have never seen any flat-out statement that an elevator is impossible without condemning property.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Sat Sep 21 20:33:32 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Sep 21 13:39:01 2019.* Actually it is easy. Condemn a house under eminent domain and build the elevators along side of the existing platform. Heck one of those buildings is (was?) already a burnt out eyesore. ROAR
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Sep 21 20:46:56 2019, in response to MTA. ADA, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 20 08:07:00 2019.* Wow, $5½ billion appears out of nowhere to serve maybe five people.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Sat Sep 21 23:56:40 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Pragmatist on Sat Sep 21 18:46:57 2019.* Virtually all IND-built stations can be made accessible, as can most typical el stations with side platforms (may require enlarging the station building underneath).
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by R42ToMoffat* on Sun Sep 22 07:58:47 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 21 17:08:25 2019.* They’re probably making Norwood Avenue accessible first because of how close it is to Transit Tech High School, though I agree that they should focus on Crescent Street, especially with the transfer to the B13. I also think I recall seeing that Woodhaven Boulevard is planned to be made accessible.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Joe V* on Sun Sep 22 09:32:12 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by R42ToMoffat on Sun Sep 22 07:58:47 2019.* That is the only skip-stop station on the J/Z that they are doing.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Joe V* on Sun Sep 22 09:34:53 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by R42ToMoffat on Sun Sep 22 07:58:47 2019.* There are high schools dotted all along the way. Elderts Lane (75th) has the former F.K. Lane.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by italianstallion* on Sun Sep 22 20:06:58 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by AlM on Sat Sep 21 19:25:11 2019.* Do the southern ends if the platforms end under a mezzanine overhead? If so, elevators can be built there, at the south ends of the platforms.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by italianstallion* on Sun Sep 22 20:08:17 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 21 20:46:56 2019.* I guess you've never observed the actual usage of elevators.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by AlM* on Sun Sep 22 20:35:05 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by italianstallion on Sun Sep 22 20:08:17 2019.* The elevators are very busy, but much of the use is for strollers, not people in wheelchairs.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Sep 22 21:37:07 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 22 20:35:05 2019.* So? Being unable to walk due to infancy is still a disability. Should babies and children be shut in their homes because their caretakers can’t carry them and their diaper bags everywhere without a wheeled stroller?
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Pragmatist* on Sun Sep 22 22:25:43 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 22 20:35:05 2019.* Since it is improper (and dangerous) to bring a stroller on an escalator, they are supposed to use elevators. It is 100% correct.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by mrw* on Sun Sep 22 23:53:36 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Pragmatist on Sun Sep 22 22:25:43 2019.* One of the things that makes installing elevators here so costly is that many stations require passengers to take two elevators (one between platform and mezzanine, then another between mezzanine and street). Other systems like DC's metro have elevators that go straight from the street to the platform with its own turnstile separate not necessarily near the fare booth or the other turnstiles. I wonder if such a system would work here given higher ridership and more crime. For example, both 103 St and 116 St on the 1 have mezzanines and would require 3 elevators each if made accessible in the same manner as other stations; however, there is probably enough room on both the platform and sidewalk above to install elevators that go directly from the street to the platform thus only requiring two elevators at each station. Or if such a solution is not feasible, then is it to prioritize a station like 110 St which has slightly lower ridership but no mezzanine so should be less costly?
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by TransitChuckG* on Mon Sep 23 02:10:37 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by mrw on Sun Sep 22 23:53:36 2019.* They just recently installed elevators at the Septa Arrott Transportation center. If you are riding the Eastbound El and alight at Arrott,the first elevator which has door each end, takes you to a level crossover that spans the EL tracks.You press OVERPASS and it goes up , you turn around to use the other elevator door and you walk across the level crossover. A second elevator takes you down to the paid Westbound platform. You exit the fare gates, then walk past the cashier's booth, to third elevator that takes you down to Street level at terminal. I use these every Friday.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by AlM* on Mon Sep 23 02:14:51 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 22 21:37:07 2019.* I was making an observation, not putting forward an argument in opposition to elevators.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by AlM* on Mon Sep 23 02:16:48 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 22 21:37:07 2019.* PS. My wife greatly appreciates the existence of subway elevators, and no one could possibly see that from looking at her (her problem with stairs is not visible). So in addition to them being beneficial for parents with strollers, they are also beneficial for many people who don't look at all disabled.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Sep 23 07:15:15 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by mrw on Sun Sep 22 23:53:36 2019.* In Chicago, an elevator car has 2 sides, partitioned, with doors on either side of fare control.
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by MainR3664* on Mon Sep 23 07:23:27 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Sep 21 23:56:40 2019.* What about the J/Z stations in between Broadway Junction and Cypress Hills? Or on the MJ train, if that structure had survived?
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by 3-9* on Mon Sep 23 07:26:22 2019, in response to MTA. ADA, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Sep 20 08:07:00 2019.* How will they make the connection between the L and the F and M at 14th St/6th Ave ADA compliant? The L platform is past the end of the IND platform, and the mezzanine doesn't extend over it, IIRC.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by MainR3664* on Mon Sep 23 07:28:47 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 23 02:16:48 2019.* My wife f-ing well totally freaked out at the depth and steepness of the escalators at 86th/2nd Ave. I also have anxiety issues, thought not with any aspect of the subway. So yeah, having elevators there was a big help. Of course, I don't understand why the station is so deep to begin with. But that's another discussion.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Mon Sep 23 08:16:11 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Sep 23 07:28:47 2019.* They had to tunnel under all existing infrastructure. Remember that it will go to 125th street which is in a valley, and to go under that infrastructure, it needs to be lower, znd to avoid the hills, they may per hap builded the hole thing lower. Krewschief builded the Moskow subway deep so as could be used as a bomb shelter. ROAR
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Re: MTA. ADA
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Sep 23 08:24:20 2019, in response to Re: MTA. ADA, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Sep 23 07:23:27 2019.* Norwood Ave is on the ADA list. Other than a tech high school (so what), I can't imagine why that one.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Sep 23 12:20:32 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 23 08:16:11 2019.* wrong, the first segment opened in '35 when Stalin was in charge.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by brightonr68* on Mon Sep 23 12:35:59 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 23 02:16:48 2019.* Only if they could keep them from being bathrooms
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by AlM* on Mon Sep 23 13:12:43 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 23 08:16:11 2019.* Even simpler. Street level at 96th and 2nd is not far above sea level, so that station isn't very deep. Street level at 86th and 2nd is dozens of feet higher.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Edwards!* on Mon Sep 23 13:15:22 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 21 20:46:56 2019.* 🙄 Unreal.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Edwards!* on Mon Sep 23 13:22:05 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Sep 23 07:28:47 2019.* I dealt with my own issue when using the escalator at Hudson Yards station. The vertigo inducing tiles mixed with the brightness of reflective surfaces,Plus added steepness... I sat for the ride up.
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Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Sep 23 14:55:54 2019, in response to Re: MTA, ADA, XYZ, posted by brightonr68 on Mon Sep 23 12:35:59 2019.* having actual bathrooms would be a first step--see plans of the early IRT. secondly, the designers should borrow in idea from some of the atrium hotels--glasselevators. Ultimately we need to sot this out because between wheelchairs, strollers, walkers, grocery carts, rolling overweight luggage, walking up the steps is not sufficient.
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