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| Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. (1521085) | |
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| (1522209) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Aug 24 09:18:48 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Aug 24 02:22:34 2019. Yep. But using the Queensboro Bridge idea was scrapped when it was decided that the Standards that would use the line were deemed to be too heavy for the bridge, which already had 2nd Ave El trains crossing it. |
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| (1522246) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Aug 24 18:24:39 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by tunnelrat on Fri Aug 23 20:44:01 2019. Just like the Utica ave subway at Atlantic ave and.... |
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| (1522251) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Aug 24 20:38:44 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by Edwards! on Sat Aug 24 18:24:39 2019. YUP. |
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| (1522327) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 25 19:58:00 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by K. Trout on Sat Aug 24 02:31:08 2019. Pretty much. |
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| (1522351) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Aug 25 21:27:51 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by randyo on Sat Aug 24 02:22:34 2019. According to David Rogoff, in his brochure for the AB fantrip (fall 1967 IIRC), there exists a door in the south wall above the Queens bound tracks at the BMT's 59th St. station where the remains of the original structure could still be accessed. I've seen this door when in the station several times.Could the area behind this door be where the IRT's underpass was eventually built? If not, I wonder how much of that original structure can still be accessed and its current condition? |
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| (1522372) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 26 01:45:06 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by Express Rider on Sun Aug 25 21:27:51 2019. I believe that door is in the north wall by the downtown track. |
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| (1522382) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Aug 26 08:23:51 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by Express Rider on Sun Aug 25 21:27:51 2019. Express RiderThe original plan was for the BMT to cross the East River on the Queensborough Bridge. The Queens bound track was to run under East 59th Street east of Fifth Avenue while the Manhattan bound track was to run under East 60th Street. As the IRT Lexington Avenue Line was built first provision was made for the BMT tunnels to pass under the IRT tracks. So two short sections of tunnel were built extending from on side of Lexington Avenue to the other. The plans were changed in 1916 to run both of the Broadway tracks under East 60th Street and to cross the East River in the Montague Street Tunnel. The Queens bound platform and trackway under East 59th Street was closed off. It was re-opened in the 1930's as passageway between the two local tracks. There was also some utility cabinets as at one or both ends. This passageway is still in use today. The Manhattan-bound trackway and platform had to be removed and the trackway was lowered about twelve feet. This was necessary since the Broadway subway was now going to go under the East River and not over it. What remains of the original construction is the entrance way or mezzanine. There is a door high up on the wall of the present Queens bound platform. I have seen this door open with workmen inside of it so it is still intact. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1522398) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 26 13:40:10 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Aug 26 08:23:51 2019. Too bad the BMT didn't cross the bridge- if it had, we might still have the ride available to us today! |
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| (1522402) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Aug 26 14:54:20 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by MainR3664 on Mon Aug 26 13:40:10 2019. It was discovered that the QB Bridge did not have the load bearing capacity to carry the planned four rail tracks and two trolley tracks.A similar but larger cantilever bridge under construction in Quebec collapsed with great loss of life in 1907 while the QB bridge was being built. The weight of BMT Standards would have been too big a risk. The wooden Second Avenue El cars were lighter weight, but even they generally ran in small consists to minimize the load on the bridge span. If by some chance, the Second Ave. El had survived into the modern era, something similar to the planned lightweight R-39 car would have to have been developed, though I am still not sure the bridge would have been able to carry them. |
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| (1522403) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 26 15:04:37 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Aug 26 14:54:20 2019. And yet there is no truck weight limitation on the bridge, is there?What if a convoy of cement trucks tries to use the bridge? |
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| (1522409) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Aug 26 16:07:04 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Aug 26 14:54:20 2019. Original plans called for the BRT to use the QBB and the current 60th St tunnels. That's why you had tunnels under 59th St and 60th Sts- to handle 4 tracks, instead of the current 2. As for weight, the Second Ave el used 5 gate car trains to Astoria (4 motors + 1 trailer). Corona trains used 7 car sets (5 motors + 2 trailers). I doubt if the 2nd Ave el would have survived to Queens. After the World's Fair closed on Oct 27th, 1940, ridership on the el fell off. The last Sunday service was on May 18th, 1941. Beginning on May 19th, 1941, night service was cut back from 12:30 AM to 9:30 PM, Monday through Saturday. |
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| (1522410) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Aug 26 16:43:36 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Aug 26 08:23:51 2019. Thank you for the info. in this post. My D.Rogoff fantrip brochure is in the filing cabinet in my storage unit, so I appreciate the immdeiacy of having the information you provided at hand.I also saw this door open at least once, and yes with workman and worksite lighting inside, I couldn't see any more structural detail at all - only the occasional individual, and the lighting. This was a long time ago - late 60s or early 70s probably. |
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| (1522418) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Aug 26 17:20:02 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by AlM on Mon Aug 26 15:04:37 2019. Let's try, and we'll find out what! |
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| (1522424) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Aug 26 18:41:53 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by randyo on Mon Aug 19 18:26:41 2019. It's unusual in that Lefferts Blvd. is only three or four miles away from the other terminal (at the time) of the E at 179th and Hillside. Sort of like today's M train which runs from Forest Hills to Middle Village. At the time it was the only service (other than shuttles and the 3rd Ave. Elevated) which terminated in the same borough on both ends. |
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| (1522435) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Aug 26 19:48:45 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by AlM on Mon Aug 26 15:04:37 2019. Axle loading is the deterrent. Apparently the axle weight of the BMT standards was the deciding factor. |
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| (1522442) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Aug 26 20:45:15 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by qveensboro_plaza on Mon Aug 26 14:54:20 2019. The load-bearing capacity of the Queensboro Bridge has always been a concern. It's one of the reasons the north outer roadway was converted to pedestrian/ bicycle usage. Older folks will also recall that the lower level used to have five lanes; this was reduced to four, partly to widen the remaining lanes, but also to reduce the load. |
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| (1522444) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Aug 26 21:05:51 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Aug 26 19:48:45 2019. Not to mention the occasional Triplex that would be routed there. |
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| (1522498) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 27 17:10:27 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by murray1575 on Mon Aug 26 18:41:53 2019. Actually, the E terminating at Rock pk also had both terminals in the same borough. |
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| (1522511) | |
Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Aug 27 18:30:23 2019, in response to Re: Lower Level platform 42nd & 8th Ave., posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Aug 26 21:05:51 2019. TIMMMMM-BERRRRRR!!!!!! |
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