|
|
| Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains (1520912) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 2 of 3 |
||
|
| (1521079) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 13 19:03:11 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 13 17:34:22 2019. It would probably change the accounting. Doesn't matter what makes sense, it just matters that food service isn't producing a negative number on the balance sheet. They're probably doing this way because if diner service is only for sleeper customers and is "included" (rather than theoretically generating revenue) they can bury it under a different category.Also, I think they did want some form of lounge for sleeper customers, so this was kindof a twofer. |
|
|
| (1521080) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 13 19:46:28 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 13 18:45:19 2019. good question. I don't ask for the "great trains" diner experience of my childhood, but at least something a little further up the scale of franchise stuff would be nice. |
|
|
| (1521081) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 13 19:49:56 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 17:12:24 2019. muni bonds sell for lower interest rates than "private sector" securities. The distenction between Fed, state,county is not the issue. If the ground were entirely privately owned, there would be nice fat eal estate taxes. If you believe the Fedtaxes on fuel etc cover the entire costs of FAA, TSA theatre etc, I sell bridges. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1521092) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 21:50:35 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 13 19:49:56 2019. Muni bonds have lower interest rates because their interest is not taxed at the federal level. Depending upon what state/authority issued the bond, the interest also may be state tax exempt as well. The after-tax return may be higher or lower than a non-tax exempt bond, depending upon the issuer and when the bond was issued.The Airport and Airway Trust Fund, which is financed by user-fee-like taxes, provides about 94.4% of the funding for the FAA's Operations account in FY 2019. |
|
|
| (1521095) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Brightonr68 on Tue Aug 13 22:50:51 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 17:12:24 2019. Airports charge landing fees , customer fees , sales taxes collected at terminals , hotel taxes and payroll taxes bring in way more than building and operating costs . Most airports kick off large sums of money back to the government thus are profit centers .Most modern terminals are filled with stores and dozens of restaurants of varying costs . They are huge revenue generators Don’t forget about the freight operations that employ thousands . It’s the same silly argument about road repair costs . News flash police , fire , ema. And food and goods deliveries need the roads thus the government spending is needed if there were zero cars . Ld trains and high speed rail (except short runs with tons of business travelers ) will not draw people. From planes . People have few vacation days thus won’t want to waste an extra 10 hours or a day on a train. Business travelers need speed . My friend often flys out in morning returns in the evening for some of his trips. . That’s why the AOC’s of the world are working to ban planes on fake green house has fears . |
|
|
| (1521099) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Brightonr68 on Tue Aug 13 23:11:42 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Brightonr68 on Tue Aug 13 22:50:51 2019. People keep bringing up EuropeMost European countries are tiny, the size of a us state . Trains worked because you are not far . Inter Europe’s travel is dominated by low cost airlines such as Ryan air , easyjet and vueling . You can fly from Rome to Milan for $25 all in . Italian rail offers heavily subsidized fares . High speed train for the select rich . People are not taking train from Paris or Rome to viena . Service is offered but the plane is preferred by most Also petro is crazy expensive . $5 plus a gallon . People take trains because they are forced to economically . Unless you want to downgrade standard of living for the working class by jacking up fuel prices ((which jack up food prices as well) the comfortable Americans are not going to use the trains as much as Europeans . Europeans drag multiple kids in toe , travel light and are willing to put up with more discomfort than the average American .Cars killed the train companies not planes . Plane travel was too expensive until deregulation . Need to make ld trains appealing for other reasons or discontinue . Another European point . People travel on holiday way more than Americans . Very social society visit. Family and tour , hike and explore . I can name 10 people off top of my head who have not been 200 miles from nyc in life . European are willing to drag bags up and down stairs . The $25 Ryan air flights don’t have jetways . You need to take a bus from terminal and climb steps of plane . Spirit air copied Ryanair Business model . They used to charge you $100 if you did not bring a printed ticket . |
|
|
| (1521107) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 14 02:26:18 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Brightonr68 on Tue Aug 13 22:50:51 2019. Your screed was interesting, right up until you had to throw in a totally irrelevant anti-liberal point. |
|
|
| (1521108) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed Aug 14 02:56:35 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 13 12:29:03 2019. Good post. |
|
|
| (1521109) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed Aug 14 02:58:25 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 14 02:26:18 2019. That's modern conservatism for you. |
|
|
| (1521118) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by K. Trout on Wed Aug 14 07:16:24 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Wed Aug 14 02:58:25 2019. Fueled by spite. |
|
|
| (1521131) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:36:11 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 11:11:28 2019. Near Trillion Dollar deficit ???We are approaching 23 Trillion Dollars in debt. We can brrow some Bollivars from Vensuwellah, that will keep us outa debt. ROARING |
|
|
| (1521132) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:38:00 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Aug 13 12:29:03 2019. DOD is the only REAL issue that is important.Cut out the Welfare, Education, Highways and Health Care. Then we will have enough money to run the nation. |
|
|
| (1521134) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 14 10:40:53 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:36:11 2019. Deficit and debt are different things.Deficit is a rate per unit time; debt is an aggregate amount. |
|
|
| (1521135) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 14 10:41:29 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:38:00 2019. The Somalia approach sure reduces taxes. |
|
|
| (1521136) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:44:19 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by K. Trout on Wed Aug 14 07:16:24 2019. Spite lives on the left, not on the right.ROAR |
|
|
| (1521138) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:50:56 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 13 19:03:11 2019. Besides, whgo wants to eat with those low-class people!ROQR |
|
|
| (1521139) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:53:18 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Joe V on Tue Aug 13 18:45:19 2019. Interesting question. I did not find AMTK dining cars all that much of a value. A short order cook at a counter could do better. Heck Waffle House is better than AMTK Diners these days.ROAR |
|
|
| (1521155) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Wed Aug 14 12:31:06 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AlM on Wed Aug 14 10:40:53 2019. Thank you. |
|
|
| (1521166) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Aug 14 13:30:50 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 13 16:39:54 2019. Berlin to London is 1100 km. Paris to Vienna is 1200. Paris to Rome is 1400.To be honest, those are generally seen as "aviation" markets in Europe versus actual high speed markets as those services require at minimum two to three services to work out. IIRC, they're doable in one day, but it can sometimes be expensive and take most of one's day. The big difference between the US and Europe is that what Europeans would call a secondary city, Americans call "dumpy place not worthy of even basic train service". Look at everybody crying about serving Fresno on California's network while France's first high speed line connected a city of the same size. Larger European countries would have built some level of high speed rail between say, Chicago and St Louis for example, but in America, we think of St Louis as a terrible place that isn't deserving of a railway. FWIW, Madrid-Barcelona is roughly the same length as LA-SF, IIRC. |
|
|
| (1521176) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Aug 14 14:10:02 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AlM on Wed Aug 14 10:40:53 2019. long term debt is accumulated annual deficits. That said most of us have long term debt--car loans, mortgages, school loans. We hope to slowly pay them down rather than see them increase. When the GOP wants to block specific spending, they become deficit hawks; when they want to decrease taxes on their paymasters, deficits become unimportant.Robert Reich likes to point out that ALL of FDR's deficit spending--domestic social investments, and WWII was paid off in the post war economic boom. |
|
|
| (1521238) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:44 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 13 10:05:08 2019. Ew, no. I'd rather have "contemporary dining" than McDonalds. |
|
|
| (1521239) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:46 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Aug 14 13:30:50 2019. Europeans do compact walkable cities. American cities tend to be incoherent sprawl that can't be navigated without a car, which greatly diminishes the advantage of taking the train there. |
|
|
| (1521240) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:48 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Aug 13 10:13:16 2019. So does all transportation. |
|
|
| (1521241) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:50 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Brightonr68 on Tue Aug 13 22:50:51 2019. Ld trains and high speed rail (except short runs with tons of business travelers ) will not draw people. From planes.Yet, they consistently sell out. |
|
|
| (1521242) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:52 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Brightonr68 on Tue Aug 13 23:11:42 2019. Unless you want to downgrade standard of living for the working class by jacking up fuel prices ((which jack up food prices as well) the comfortable Americans are not going to use the trains as much as Europeans .Except that Europe tends to have higher standards of living. Especially for the working class. Europeans drag multiple kids in toe , travel light and are willing to put up with more discomfort than the average American . I've generally had more discomfort travelling in America than Europe. Another European point . People travel on holiday way more than Americans . That would be due to the higher standard of living. |
|
|
| (1521243) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:57 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 11:09:19 2019. Citation needed. |
|
|
| (1521244) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:06:06 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Tue Aug 13 11:11:28 2019. If we can afford a trillion dollars for fighter jets we won't even use, we can afford to build a high speed rail network. |
|
|
| (1521245) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:06:35 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 14 10:50:56 2019. What was that about spite? |
|
|
| (1521247) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 14 23:16:33 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Aug 14 13:30:50 2019. St. Louis is a terrible place that IS deserving of a railway! |
|
|
| (1521248) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Brightonr68 on Wed Aug 14 23:21:34 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Aug 14 13:30:50 2019. And most people fly discount airlines for with fares starting at $25 |
|
|
| (1521249) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 14 23:41:37 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:06:06 2019. We can afford so many things if Members of Congress didn’t need artificial phalluses. |
|
|
| (1521251) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Thu Aug 15 04:32:39 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:03:57 2019. Google is your friend. |
|
|
| (1521252) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 05:25:28 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 14 23:41:37 2019. It's not even about that. It's about giving handouts to the rich. We're not spending $1 trillion on useless fighter jets to make Congress feel manly— we're spending it to enrich the donor class that owns Congress. |
|
|
| (1521253) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 05:25:31 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Thu Aug 15 04:32:39 2019. Then you can use it to find some citations.Because other than some teething issues with the new equipment, the service seems to be more reliable than Amtrak. |
|
|
| (1521267) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Thu Aug 15 10:38:34 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 05:25:31 2019. Try checking British rail sites, troll. Constant breakdowns; stranded passengers; and even making passengers buy another ticket when stranded. |
|
|
| (1521276) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 15 14:45:36 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by italianguyinsi on Mon Aug 12 21:42:39 2019. Only the government loses money on food service to a captive audience whose tastes, although varied, seem to be somewhat predictable. |
|
|
| (1521277) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 15 14:49:39 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 05:25:28 2019. the DOD vendors figured out long ago that having some factory or another in multiple (sometimes all) congressional districts guarantees the contracts even when DOD oesn't want/need more of the items. best government money can buy.I always thought of BART, WMATA as new markets for DOD/NASA vendors--Rohr being the prime example. |
|
|
| (1521278) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 15 14:52:30 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 15 14:45:36 2019. wrong. The Class 1s all lost money on dining car services with the single exception in the 60s of New Haven selling drinks on commuter trains. |
|
|
| (1521280) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 15 15:03:15 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 15 14:52:30 2019. There is so much more choice today in types of food on every level, I don't get how there is no ability at all to come up with something.Like a professor said to our class once, back then there wasn't restaurants filling every strip mall like they do now. You had to cook at home. (he wasn't talking about a major city). |
|
|
| (1521281) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 15 15:17:18 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 14 23:06:35 2019. Your sarcasm detector is faulty.ROAR |
|
|
| (1521286) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 15 15:56:59 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 15 15:03:15 2019. A lot of those levels aren't considered serious dining (e.g., McDonalds). |
|
|
| (1521297) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Thu Aug 15 17:48:33 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 15 14:49:39 2019. That’s what brought us the trouble plagued Boeing LRV. |
|
|
| (1521305) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 19:07:16 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Aug 15 15:17:18 2019. Shrödinger's sarcasm— you were serious until you got called on it, at which point you declared it was retroactively sarcastic. My sarcasm detector correctly indicated that you were serious when you wrote it even though you're trying to walk it back now. |
|
|
| (1521306) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 19:07:19 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Dave on Thu Aug 15 10:38:34 2019. trollSince you are not capable of having a civil conversation, I will take the point as conceded and move on. |
|
|
| (1521307) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 19:07:23 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 15 15:03:15 2019. The reason dining cars always lose money has nothing to do with the type of food or the tastes of the populace and everything to do with the practicalities of the situation.A superliner coach has a capacity of ~75, per Wikipedia. A superliner sleeper has a capacity of ~30, assuming single occupancy for a roomette and accessible bedroom, double occupancy for a full bedroom and 4 people in the family bedroom. Assuming a typical California Zephyr has 5 coaches (filled to 80% capacity at any given meal time) and 3 sleepers (at full occupancy as stated above at every mealtime) and that about 30% of coach passengers opt to skip the diner (a rough estimate, but a generous one; I've almost never seen a coach passenger in the diner) then you're talking 300 people for each meal. Those 300 people represent a captive audience, but they also represent an exclusive audience— they have nowhere else to go, but the dining car has no one else to serve. A bad restaurant will go out of business through lack of patronage, but a good restaurant can serve as many people as choose to visit, which can easily be more than 300 daily. Now imagine that there is a restaurant of similar patronage - one that serves the same 300 customers per meal per day as a railroad dining car - but which chooses not to open for breakfast. Over the course of 48 hours, that restaurant will serve 600 lunches and 600 dinners, and will pay a set of staff for two 10-hour shifts. Meanwhile, the railroad dining car will serve 600 breakfasts, 600 lunches, and 600 dinners, but it will have to pay a set of staff for a single 48-hour shift, at a substantial premium due to overtime and the difficulty of convincing people to work such a demanding job. So restaurants may spring up on every block, but railroad dining cars will still lose money due to their naturally restricted audience and their need to pay staff for round-the-clock shifts not because more work is required but because you can't easily change shifts when the "restaurant" is moving at 79 MPH. |
|
|
| (1521308) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 15 19:22:05 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 19:07:23 2019. I doubt that anyone has to work a 48 hour shift. But they have to provide sleeping accomodations for when workers are off duty, unlike a fixed location restaurant that tells them to go home while they are off work. |
|
|
| (1521311) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by rkba on Thu Aug 15 20:34:36 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 15 19:07:16 2019. reeeeeee |
|
|
| (1521312) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu Aug 15 20:54:43 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Aug 14 13:30:50 2019. St Louis needs all the help it can get. |
|
|
| (1521320) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 16 03:19:38 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by rkba on Thu Aug 15 20:34:36 2019. Are you having a stroke? |
|
|
| (1521321) | |
Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Fri Aug 16 03:19:43 2019, in response to Re: Amtrak changes-LD Trains, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 15 19:22:05 2019. The point is, they have to be paid for 48 continuous hours, regardless of whether they're working. Even asleep at 2 AM, the dining car chefs are on the train, so the railroad has to pay for them to be there one way or another. |
|
|
|
Page 2 of 3 |
||
