Home  Maps  About

Home > SubChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

(1517989)

view threaded

Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

Posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019

The first station out of the Eastern Parkway tunnel is Sutter Ave. Rutland Road, opened 11.22.1920. Until yesterday's fatal knifing, I wonder whether it has gone 98 years without a murder. And I wonder how built up the neighborhood was in 1920, empty as Queens Blvd on the Flushing Line, or cluttered with tenements. The station's name puzzled me until I looked at a map and saw how unusual the street grids meet there.

Post a New Response

(1517992)

view threaded

Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 10 09:04:51 2019, in response to Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019.

That station is in a dangerous area, and has been for decades.

Post a New Response

(1517994)

view threaded

Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

Posted by W.B. on Wed Jul 10 09:24:17 2019, in response to Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019.

My God, that opening was 43 years to the day before the JFK assassination!

Post a New Response

(Sponsored)

iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It

(1518010)

view threaded

Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

Posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 13:57:42 2019, in response to Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019.

Link to Daily Mail video
  • HERE

  • ---
    This location apparently is within the 73rd precinct.

    Post a New Response

    (1518034)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 10 18:04:14 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 13:57:42 2019.

    WOW!!

    Some women can be just as violent as men.

    Post a New Response

    (1518038)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by gbs on Wed Jul 10 19:27:16 2019, in response to Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019.


    The original name of the station was Sutter Ave, which must have been the more prominent street at the time. East New York (the Sutter side) must have developed earlier and more densely than East Flatbush (the Rutland side).

    There are several examples in Brooklyn and Queens where street grids from different neighborhoods (that used to not come near each other) meet at odd angles, often separated today by a street, like E 98 St at Sutter-Rutland. Broadway (Brooklyn) separates Bushwick from Bed-Stuy and those neighborhood grids are at different angles. Elmhurst in Queens has streets at angles to the rest of the neighborhoods, with Roosevelt Av separating them in the 80s and 90s.

    These photos from 1963 and 1967 show that the Rutland Road signs were added later, while the Sutter Av signs were original:







    Post a New Response

    (1518074)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jul 11 05:18:54 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by gbs on Wed Jul 10 19:27:16 2019.

    Not related to the subject of this post, but I'm still trying to figure out how that single R-26 was able to operate coupled to an R-12 (I think that's a 12, as it appears to be 57XX). I know that the R-26/R-28 were not strictly married pairs (like the R-29, R-33, etc.), but didn't the odds and evens share some systems?

    Post a New Response

    (1518101)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by gbs on Thu Jul 11 08:11:09 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jul 11 05:18:54 2019.


    That's a very legitimate question. Here's something else: the R17s were the first class to have built-in PA systems, so if the t/o in R26 car 7755 made an announcement, did the R12s behind that car transmit the message to the cars behind them even though they had no PAs themselves? If so, how would that have worked? Are the PA announcements sent through the electric portions, and did the R12s have spare pins for them?

    Post a New Response

    (1518127)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jul 11 16:48:59 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jul 11 05:18:54 2019.

    IAWTP. WTF?

    Post a New Response

    (1518147)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 12 03:26:49 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jul 11 05:18:54 2019.

    I would guess that the R26, being odd-numbered and having compressors, would be able to run its electrical system off the R12 behind it. I'm also thinking it's a lot easier for the R12 to have shared some electricity with the odd-numbered R26 than it would have been to share air with an even-numbered R26- that would require hoses- and would diminish the R12's own braking ability, whereas juice can be shared with a jumper cable (a/k/a a plug) - a capability which the R26 probably had anyway to receive power from a mate of its own kind.

    As for the PA system, I'd think that unless they made some serious modifications to the R12, there'd have been no way to pass communications through it. And I never heard of such modifications being made. If they were, it would have made sense to just install speakers in the R12. Actually, in 1967, there were a lot of trains in the system without PAs- All the Arnines, the R10s, even a few Standards and Qs. So making announcements probably wasn't considered as essential as it is today. And the few that needed to be made could be made from the conductor's position- but even then, a lot of folks wouldn't hear .

    Post a New Response

    (1518156)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jul 12 06:55:19 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 12 03:26:49 2019.

    Thanks for the explanation. I never knew the exact details of which car had what. And since the 26/28s (and their BMT cousins, the R-27/30 had actual couplers at the blind ends, instead of drawbars, was fairly easy to do. I'm not sure if post-GOH, the 26/28s got drawbars. I do know they were matched with their proper mates, whereas before they weren't (except for some reason the ones on the 6 (7804-7903?) which were always properly matched. More often than not, on the 2/4/5, a 26 would be paired with a 28.

    Post a New Response

    (1518161)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by Dan on Fri Jul 12 09:03:12 2019, in response to Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019.

    The Sutter Avenue Brownsville neighborhood was built up with tenements starting in the late 1890s. Brownsville was never a pleasant area. Generally crowded and rundown. It was a predominantly Jewish area into the early 1960s. East Flatbush was a nicer area with many 2 and 3 family homes but declined in the early 1970s.

    Post a New Response

    (1518172)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 12 10:40:46 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jul 12 06:55:19 2019.

    Thanks for the thanks. I will admit to having ZERO operational experience with any transit system- just a lifetime of observing our subway and 22 years looking stuff up on the internet. I drew all of my assumptions from what operating personnel posted here.

    I believe that during GOH, all paired cars got drawbars. If anyone has knowledge to the contrary, please let me know.

    Post a New Response

    (1518181)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 12 11:13:06 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Dan on Fri Jul 12 09:03:12 2019.

    Brownsville was the site of the first Planned Parenthood.

    Post a New Response

    (1518182)

    view threaded

    ATTN LUCH: Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 12 11:13:19 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 12 11:13:06 2019.

    See above post.

    Post a New Response

    (1518189)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by numbersix on Fri Jul 12 11:44:59 2019, in response to Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Joe on Wed Jul 10 08:09:24 2019.

    98 minutes, maybe.

    Post a New Response

    (1518226)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jul 13 05:13:32 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by Dan on Fri Jul 12 09:03:12 2019.

    I used that station for 20 years from 1955 to 1077. What you say about Brownsville developing in the 1890s is true, but the area within a quarter mile of the station on the Brownsville side and over a mile on the East Flatbush side was developed in the 1920s and started immediately after the station was constructed. There was a lot of block busting in the 1970s and the neighborhood completely changed in three years. This is about the third murder I remember hearing about at this station. Of course there were
    many more robberies and violent attacks.

    Post a New Response

    (1518407)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by Dan on Sun Jul 14 07:18:07 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jul 13 05:13:32 2019.

    The collapse of Brownsville - East New York in the 1960s is a very scary story. Blockbusting was so rampant that real estate laws were changed regarding posting 'for sale' signs until the courts struck them down. Much of the housing stock was undesirable. Very old cramped frame houses or plain brick attached buildings. White flight to the suburbs was in full swing. The Jews and Italians of eastern Brooklyn fled the area for the suburbs or safer parts of the city. In 1960 the area was a stable working class neighborhood. By 1967 it was a dangerous slum area.


    Post a New Response

    (1518477)

    view threaded

    Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station

    Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 14 19:34:34 2019, in response to Re: Sutter Ave. Rutland Road station, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 12 10:40:46 2019.

    OK. Single R-26s and 28s whether compressor equipped or motor generator equipped could run singly in mixed trains since bot the battery current and the air could be supplied from the other cars in the train. After GOH, all IRT cars with couplers at the #2 ends received drawbars, however, the GOHed R-30s on the BMT did not.

    Post a New Response


    [ Return to the Message Index ]