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| Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion (1516485) | |
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| (1516485) | |
Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jun 22 04:21:30 2019 No High speed rail |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 22 18:36:30 2019, in response to Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jun 22 04:21:30 2019. Well worth the time to view.Maybe someday when we have the political will. Unfortunately, I've been waiting all my life. I don't expect to see/ride anything. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 22 22:24:45 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 22 18:36:30 2019. Has nothing to do with "political will" and everything to do with politics getting out of the way. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 23 03:49:51 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 22 22:24:45 2019. LION has always said that polytics should get out of the way.You can eliminate half of the polytics by not involving the Federal Government. By going Fed, you are begging for more polytics and obstruction. Cities and states should band together to establish regional HS LIONS. Pair two or three cities with several intermediate stops and build a NEW HSR. As you can sea from udder parts of the werld, HSR must be builded on its own elevated ROW So about the cost of building an interstate highway. Follow existing Interstate ROWs will shave much off the costs, but of course you have to cut curves and hills and will need own ROW to bypass issues that knead bypassing. It Can be done, but if you wait for fed, the next ice age will be upon us and there will still be no HSR ROAR |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jun 23 12:52:03 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 22 22:24:45 2019. My definition of political will means one word: MONEY. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jun 23 15:23:21 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Jun 23 03:49:51 2019. Cities and states should band together to establish regional HS LIONSThat's not politics getting out of the way. HSR must be builded on its own elevated ROW Nope. Sharing ROW with highways is just fine. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 23 16:49:10 2019, in response to Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jun 22 04:21:30 2019. We'd have high speed rail if our government weren't weighted towards the farm states. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 24 06:31:12 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jun 23 16:49:10 2019. More like they are wedded to the highway and oil lobbies. |
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| (1516635) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 06:51:34 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 24 06:31:12 2019. Thanks to the disproportionate power of the farm states. Oil and highways benefit rural states more than urban states.Sure, highways benefit cities too, people and goods have to get between them, but rail is something that works with density. Our governmental structure penalizes density. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 06:58:28 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 06:51:34 2019. On the other hand, you can't blame the farm states for Long Island, of all places, having such a lack of freight rail service. The dense states often contribute to their own problems. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 07:41:20 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 06:58:28 2019. Long Island lacks freight service due to the Selkirk hurdle. Although yes, you can't blame the farm states for that. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 07:47:07 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 07:41:20 2019. No one has ever given me an answer as to why all LI freight has to be assembled in Selkirk. Why can't you assemble an LI-bound freight train in NJ and send it non-stop to LI overnight? |
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| (1516639) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jun 24 07:59:22 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 07:41:20 2019. Many freight cars cannot clear LIRR (double stack, auto-carriers, etc.) |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 08:43:00 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 07:47:07 2019. What does it have to do with assembly? Any rail freight has to go up to Selkirk and come back down. Even nonstop, it's faster to just truck it. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jun 24 09:35:26 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 08:43:00 2019. How long does it take to get things across the harbor using barges? I don't think we're even close to capacity. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jun 24 09:37:57 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 22 22:24:45 2019. Yet China's HSR network was built almost entirely because of politics. It's opposing politics that's the problem. |
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| (1516650) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jun 24 09:39:15 2019, in response to Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jun 22 04:21:30 2019. The comments for the video were also interesting. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 10:28:11 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 08:43:00 2019. It's faster to truck it, but ought to be (yet isn't) way cheaper to send it by rail overnight, which would be fast enough for most freight.The stories I have heard are that it would need to be assembled in Selkirk and would take multiple days to get to LI from anywhere west of NYC. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jun 24 10:54:23 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 10:28:11 2019. Isn't the problem then with LIRR dispatching? Especially since the freight has to go through Jamaica. |
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| (1516656) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 11:10:54 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jun 24 10:54:23 2019. Why would there be a problem with LIRR dispatching in the middle of the night? They can't handle one more train? |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jun 24 11:30:37 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by AlM on Mon Jun 24 11:10:54 2019. Dunno, might interfere with track work? Also, it means the freight will have to lay up until nighttime, thus adding to the overall travel time. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 18:53:55 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 06:51:34 2019. Our governmental structure penalizes density.That was actually intentional. The idea was that by spreading out, the effectiveness of a nuclear weapon on the US would be diminished. Whether that is still the case remains to be seen (I'm sure several countries have enough by now to irradiate the entire country from sea to shining sea). |
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| (1516698) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 19:55:52 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 18:53:55 2019. That was actually intentional. The idea was that by spreading out, the effectiveness of a nuclear weapon on the US would be diminished.Have you lost your mind? |
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| (1516699) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 20:16:55 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 19:55:52 2019. Took me 30 seconds to find a blog about it: Suburbs defense. But I first heard about it in college in urban planning class ~15 years ago. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 20:41:49 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 20:16:55 2019. Yes, the Connecticut Compromise predicted the invention of nuclear weapons over 150 years in the future. |
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| (1516708) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 21:28:50 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 24 20:41:49 2019. Your second paragraph can be interpreted as a statement about the government as a whole:Sure, highways benefit cities too, people and goods have to get between them, but rail is something that works with density. Our governmental structure penalizes density. I could just as easily say the Connecticut Compromise predicted highways? In any case, my point was, the government has been actively encouraging the very sprawl that makes high speed rail (and arguably, passenger rail in general) difficult. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jun 24 22:09:04 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 21:28:50 2019. And you are correct. The US did a study, and based on it actively encouraged what we now termsprawl. |
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| (1516712) | |
Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 25 04:06:38 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 21:28:50 2019. Just stop. You’re becoming more incoherent with every post in this thread. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 25 04:07:47 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jun 24 22:09:04 2019. And they had little incentive not to, given that our government gives more representation for land than for people. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 25 07:23:08 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jun 24 18:53:55 2019. It's not ionizing radiation that is the big killer with nukes, but the heat and the shockwave. |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jun 25 08:23:49 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 25 04:07:47 2019. The strategy had little to do with representation in Congress. The study looked at the effect of US bombing of German industry and in the time honored tradition of defending for the next war based on the previous one, expended billions on valueless measures. Think the Maginot line of pillbox defense built after WWI which were simply driven around by tanks. (Historical note, while many credit Heinz Guderian as the tank warfare genius, a strategy paper from a young Charles de Gaulle was what inspired him.) |
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Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 25 08:39:19 2019, in response to Re: Why the US has no High speed rail, one opinion, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jun 25 08:23:49 2019. That may well be true, but my original point was that there's a density penalty in representation in the federal government, which causes urban and even suburban issues to get short shrift relative to rural issues. |
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