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| Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? (1515501) | |
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| (1515501) | |
Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:19:06 2019 Broad Street was ranked 37th in ridership in 1975, but is now 240th in ridership. Ridership has fallen by 3,137,252, or 61.73%. Do any of you know why or have any ideas why this dramatic shift in ridership has taken place? Thanks so much. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jun 12 04:41:07 2019, in response to Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:19:06 2019. Post-9/11 job relocation to NJ or outer boros? |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:41:56 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jun 12 04:41:07 2019. The decline happened earlier. Ridership started falling in 1981 (like the rest of the system), but reached its lowest point in 1999. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 04:51:20 2019, in response to Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:19:06 2019. The end of South Brooklyn service via Montague Tunnel is probably the biggest factor. Broad Street is now effectively a stub end terminal with only the J (and its Z offshoot) serving it. Of course the post-9/11 job losses are obviously to blame as well. Finally there are many other nearby stations that Lower Manhattan riders can use, that have better service. 2/3 and 4/5 Wall Street Stations, Rector Street Stations on the R and #1 all come to mind. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Jun 12 04:55:34 2019, in response to Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:19:06 2019. My impression is that NJ feeder buses have largely been emphasized to Secaucus in the past few years. That would only explain recent declines and not longer term trends. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 05:09:09 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 04:51:20 2019. Pre-9/11 job losses too. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 05:13:21 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Jun 12 04:55:34 2019. This posting does not make sense in the context of the original one. We are talking about Broad Street BMT Station (J, Z trains) in Lower Manhattan, just outside the NY Stock Exchange. What do NJ feeder buses have to do with this topic?Is this person talking about Broad Street Station NJT commuter trail station in Newark on the Morris and Essex (ex Lackawanna) lines? |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 05:26:23 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 05:13:21 2019. Is this person talking about Broad Street Station NJT commuter trail station in Newark on the Morris and Essex (ex Lackawanna) lines?Not possible for that station to be 240th in any NJ list of ridership. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 05:27:28 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 05:09:09 2019. Do you have any details about the pre-9/11 job losses? Ridership has recovered a bit as of late, but because of residential conversions. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 05:28:04 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 05:13:21 2019. I was talking about the station on the Nassau Street Line. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 12 05:47:01 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 05:27:28 2019. For decades, Midtown was more popular than downtown, so there has been a shift in that direction. Moreover, the residential conversions pre-date 9/11. While the residential conversions provide ridership to the 4/5 and 2/3, they provide little ridership to the J/Z because it doesn't go to Midtown or anywhere useful to those residents.Another effect on downtown is that clerical jobs that used to fill office buildings have either been automated out of existence, or have shifted to lower cost areas in the suburbs, or in other parts of the country. The people who still work downtown are less likely to live anywhere along the J/Z. Additionally, there is probably some effect from the decline of Southern Brooklyn service from Nassau Street. Whereas previously passengers could use the line from both directions, now they only use it from the Williamsburg Bridge. Finally, the areas around the J/Z in Brooklyn still had not fully declined by 1975 and still had a few years left to go before they reached bottom. There has been recovery, but I doubt the new residents work near Broad Street. This is part of the shift in work away from downtown also. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 06:05:24 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 12 05:47:01 2019. I had been wondering about the discrepancy between the increases at Wall Street on the 2/3 and 4/5 and the decreases at Broad. Again, the decrease occurred while there was still M service to the Brighton Line, RR service to Bay Ridge, and later M service to the West End Line. Do you have any more information? Thanks so much. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 06:14:21 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 06:05:24 2019. Lower income jobs in lower Manhattan have been decreasing since the building of the first WTC. I remember going to the International Map Company on Liberty Street with my father in the mid-1960s. And the J/Z serves areas of lower income housing, which in turn was also suffering.Many low rise buildings in Lower Manhattan used to house manufacturing and retail jobs. Now they have been replaced by office buildings with higher income workers, or replaced by very expensive residential buildings, whose inhabitants don't take the J/Z anywhere. The higher income people who work there now are much more likely to be taking the 2/3/4/5 from Penn, GCT, LIRR Brooklyn, Upper East and West Sides, etc. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Wed Jun 12 06:18:53 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 06:14:21 2019. Quite simple . Old office buildings were replaced by apartments . Each apartment sized office is equal to about 30 workers . When I used broad street in the mid 1999’s it was empty compared to other routes into Brooklyn . Empty train with a seat. The m does not go to bay parkway anymore . Another reason |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 06:27:54 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Brightonr68 on Wed Jun 12 06:18:53 2019. Are you saying that AlM's statement was correct? |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Jun 12 06:30:57 2019, in response to Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:19:06 2019. Bring back the 4th Avenue local banker's special and/or another line that runs from South Brooklyn through the Montague Street tunnel like the M Train used to. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 06:41:17 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 06:27:54 2019. It all can be digested down into:- Fewer people who are served by WB subway lines work in Lower Manhattan nowadays, compared to past decades. This is a 50+ year trend. - People who are served by Montague Tunnel subway lines are (a) less likely to work in Lower Manhattan than they used to be and (b) since 2011 can no longer get to the Broad Street stop anyway. - The added people who now live near Broad Street are very unlikely to take the subway over the WB. - None of these demographic and service changes apply, or apply as strongly, to the 2/3/4/5. |
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Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Wed Jun 12 14:12:51 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 06:41:17 2019. Yes aim is right .Almost no financial employment near wall street. Train does not go where people who live there want to go . The major residential conversions began in the early 1990's |
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Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 12 14:20:02 2019, in response to Broad Street station Ridership: Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 04:19:06 2019. Not immediately evident what city, or even country. |
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Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 14:56:01 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much?, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 12 14:20:02 2019. What other system has 270+ stations with a stop named Broad Street? If you can't figure that out, I am sure you can't answer my question. |
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Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Jun 12 14:58:33 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 14:56:01 2019. Pwned! |
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Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jun 12 16:12:37 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 14:56:01 2019. Yeah, I suppose there could have been a Broad Street in London, but there isn't. Not so likely that there is a Broad Street in Paris, Shanghai, or Beijing. |
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Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 16:27:09 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 14:56:01 2019. Philadelphia has a Broad Street subway, and Newark has a major commuter rail station called Broad Street.So for people not familiar with the NYC-North Jersey area, not so obvious. |
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Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Jun 12 16:56:16 2019, in response to Re: Broad Street Station Ridership (NYCTA Nassau Street Line): Why has it declined so much?, posted by andy on Wed Jun 12 16:27:09 2019. I specified Broad Street station, and there aren't 200+ stations in Philly. In addition, there are not 240 NJT stations! Once again, people not familiar with the area wouldn't be of any help to me in answering my question. |
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