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| Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again (1514770) | |
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| (1514770) | |
Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 05:36:20 2019 Falling on your head, almost |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jun 4 06:19:39 2019, in response to Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 05:36:20 2019. Now there will be a bunch of railfans running along Roosevelt Avenue with catcher's mitts. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Jun 4 07:06:41 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jun 4 06:19:39 2019. I especially like this quote from the victim:The train went by overhead and a piece of metal fell from the train, she said, explaining that it landed about 5 feet away. I prefer that it not be on my head so I'm glad that it was not on my head. That is outstanding. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 07:21:17 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Jun 4 07:06:41 2019. Classic statement, for sure. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 4 07:57:10 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jun 4 06:19:39 2019. And have drivers along Roosevelt Ave install grills or as they used to be known as "Ghetto Grates" on their windshields, similar to what Amtrak engineers had installed across their engine windshields passing thru the NEC.Don't forget warning signs alerting convertible drivers to keep their tops up! |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Jun 4 08:34:26 2019, in response to Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 05:36:20 2019. TEAR DOWN THE ROOSEVELT AV EL!!Sorry, had to :) |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 4 14:21:58 2019, in response to Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 05:36:20 2019. How come that el, and not the others ? |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jun 4 17:03:17 2019, in response to Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 05:36:20 2019. Deja vu all over again. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 5 02:12:15 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 4 14:21:58 2019. How come that el, and not the others ?Here are a couple of possibilities. 1. Maintenance has to work around the Met's and Tennis Open schedule. 2. CBTC installation interfered with maintenance |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jun 5 03:40:08 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Jun 4 07:06:41 2019. Post a sign along the sidewalks under the el: "Hard Hat Area"That will fix it. ROAR |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jun 5 03:58:19 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 5 02:12:15 2019. Was built by cheap Union labor.ROAR |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 05:23:08 2019, in response to Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jun 4 05:36:20 2019. That structure is 100 years old. What do people expect? Even with maintenance things are going to break off and fall. The people who built this structure probably never thought it would still be in daily use 100 years in the future.All of the el segments are ancient, with the exception of the Far Rockaway connection on the A train (built in the '50s) and the Archer Avenue connection (built in the '80s). They should have been replaced by tunnels a long time ago. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Wed Jun 5 06:02:51 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jun 5 03:58:19 2019. Stop , the quick turnarounds leads to items not being picked up . |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Jun 5 06:03:09 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 05:23:08 2019. I think the A train el in Far Rockaway is from around 1942-43. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jun 5 06:34:07 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Jun 5 06:03:09 2019. How?I thought that was from the captured LIRR Rockaway Beach branch the city got in 1955-1956, but as built, it was built in 1880. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 06:34:37 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 05:23:08 2019. Plus over the years, there was an interlock at/near that spot & TS bound expresses used to fly thru that spot at about 50-55 mph. Also, todays equiptment is much heavier than the Lo Vs & R-12,14,& 15s, all accounting for extra stress on the tracks & old structure. How often do they have to inspect & replace the lag bolts? |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 07:31:36 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Jun 5 06:03:09 2019. Are you speaking of the elevated concrete viaduct?? |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 13:29:20 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Jun 5 06:03:09 2019. No.The City bought the southern portion of the LIRR Rockaway Beach line in 1954 and converted it to subway use. Part of this plan was to build a ramp from near the end of the existing A line (the portion that runs to Lefferts Boulevard) to connect with the LIRR trackage. That connection was opened in 1956. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 13:30:34 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 06:34:37 2019. Also keep in mind, 100 years in New York winters and summers, decades of deferred maintenance and exposure to corrosive bird poop. Nothing lasts forever. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jun 5 13:39:09 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 05:23:08 2019. The concrete viaduct in the Rockaways was built in the early 1940s by the LIRR, with conversion to subway service planned from the get-go. Prior to that, the LIRR ran on the surface. The connecting ramps from the Liberty Avenue el to the LIRR and to the Fulton Street subway built in the 1950s. The causeway over Jamaica Bay was substantially, in fact, nearly completely rebuilt in the 1950s and in 2013 (after Sandy). |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 13:49:12 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 05:23:08 2019. Parts the Fulton st el on the Jamaica line are 130 years old and have not heard of anything falling off. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 13:51:28 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 13:30:34 2019. Just to last as long as it did is a testament to how things were (over) built back then. When you stop and think on how construction is done nowadays, back then building box girder elevated lines, which are essentially a series of bridges, all calculations & measurements with allowances for stress & seasonal expantion/contraction were figured out by men gifted with mathematical skills along with the worlds first analog computer...the slide rule. Truly amazing.Let us not forget #2 lead pencils & legal pads! |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jun 5 15:11:51 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 13:51:28 2019. I Agree. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 5 15:23:48 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Jun 5 06:34:07 2019. I thought that was from the captured LIRR Rockaway Beach branch the city got in 1955-1956, but as built, it was built in 1880.The LIRR on the Rockaway penensula originally ran on the surface. It was relocated to its present elevated structure during a grade crossing elimination between 1939 and 1942. The Rockaway Park section was completed in 1941. The Far Rockaway section was completed in 1942. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 17:32:49 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 13:49:12 2019. Two tracks, slower speeds, less TPH, that could explain a lot. Flushing line trains between 61st & 69th Sts are faster & there's a lot more of them. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Jun 5 20:10:37 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 13:29:20 2019. What does that have to do with the Rockaway peninsula? |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jun 6 03:43:25 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 13:49:12 2019. People in Jamaica know when to keep their mouths shut! |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 03:55:32 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jun 6 03:43:25 2019. That portion of Fulton St is not Jamaica. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 06:11:40 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 17:32:49 2019. You can say that of the IRT WPR line too. But nothing is falling off. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 6 06:27:25 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 13:29:20 2019. I see now you're saying the el was built for the NYC subway.No it wasn't. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 6 06:33:32 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 6 06:27:25 2019. He’s talking exclusively about the short connector in Ozone Park and ignoring entirely the el on the peninsula which also newer than all of the other els, dating to 1942. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 07:03:17 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Jun 5 20:10:37 2019. The TA bought the existing LIRR trackage from just south of the Ozone Park LIRR station to the Rockaway Beach terminal to the west and the Far Rockaway station to the east and converted it to subway use. But to access the new trackage, a new ramp had to be built connecting the IND Fulton Street line to the new trackage. That ramp was built in the mid 1950's. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 07:06:05 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 6 06:33:32 2019. I wasn't "ignoring" that at all - but when those tracks were elevated onto the concrete viaduct, that was still LIRR property. I was talking about the subway elevateds built by the private companies as a result of the Dual Contracts and before. Not the LIRR. There is elevated trackage in many places constructed by the LIRR that predated the 1950's. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 6 07:11:03 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 07:06:05 2019. It doesn’t matter. Those tracks are used by the subway now and they were built when they were built. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 6 07:32:46 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 07:03:17 2019. I know all that. I stated the Far Rockaway el dated from about 42-43 and you said no. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 6 08:39:50 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 06:11:40 2019. I'm going to go with Mr. Bauman's theory that all the CBTC work on the 7 line El may have gotten in the way of structural maintenance. It just seems to make sense.I do remember how in Spring 2018, they had a slow-speed order in effect around 61st-Woodside due to some structural issue. I was railfanning with, of all people, my sister, and we crawled through there. I guess some serious issue that simply could not be deferred arose there. Now that CBTC is mostly done, maybe they need to evaluate and plan for some structural repairs... |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 11:05:12 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 6 07:11:03 2019. And a horse is a horse, of course, of course, but like your point, it has nothing to do with what I was saying. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 6 11:16:57 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 11:05:12 2019. Your point was that all el structures are ancient. It was pointed out to you that this one isn’t. And yet you ignore that. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:07:09 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 07:03:17 2019. As originally planned, the IND was to be connected via a ramp and portal from under the LIRR ROW in the vicinity of Old Aqueduct station. The subway was to pass through the much discussed 76 St station and continue under Pitkin Ave which was actually a renamed portion of Old South Rd. When further construction under Pitkin Av was halted for whatever reason, the B of T decided to make the connection off the reclaimed portion of the Fulton St el S.O Rockaway Blvd creating Liberty Jct as we now know it. The change seems to have been made in the 2 years between 1948 when the subway opened to Euclid and the model board in the tower showed the Pitkin subway going past 76 St, and 1950 when a B of T report on proposed subway lines showed the connection S/O Rockaway Blvd on the el. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:13:52 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 6 06:27:25 2019. According to what I have read in various places, the LIRR structure on the Rockaway Peninsula was built in anticipation of the city taking it over for subway use which may explain why it was built of concrete similar to the 9th St structure in Bkln instead of open steel like the Atlantic Av structure. I don’t know what prompted the LIRR to take that position but it may have been that the RR felt that it wasn’t getting sufficient ridership on that line and it wanted to divest itself of as much intra city operation as possible concentration mainly on services to Nassau and Suffolk. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:17:12 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jun 5 13:39:09 2019. If I have my facts straight, there was never any actual causeway when the LIRR operated there, but only a wooden trestle which burned down. AFSIK, the causeway was build brand new as landfill. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:19:20 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 5 05:23:08 2019. Time for another Weird Al Yankovic pop song parody “Train Drops Keep Falling on my Head." |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 6 12:19:48 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:17:12 2019. Ok. Well, the structure, whatever kind it was- got rebuilt by the TA. I do know that the old one was wood- hence the 1950 fire (and several before it, I believe) |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 12:22:04 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:17:12 2019. The trestle was burned and rendered unusable. The TA built on top of it. Some of the trestle's timbers were exposed after Sandy. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 6 13:11:24 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 12:13:52 2019. That peninsula structure reminded me more of the Flushing Line viaduct along Queens Blvd. I wonder why they built it like that as opposed to the standard open steel box gurder that other El designs used?That had to be much more expensive and labor intensive (rebar in concrete that needed old fashioned & well paid wire lathers) to build it that way. Since the LIRR was financially on the ropes for decades, why go down this expensive road? I guess mother PRR had to reach deep into their Amish wagons to come up with the cash. And maybe the City chipped in with few bucks. That would make some sense since the City knew someday they'd be taking it over. Just speculation here. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 13:39:52 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 6 07:06:05 2019. Looking at the architecture and styling of the concrete and handrails, it was pure LIRR/PRR, looking something like Lynbrook.Woodhaven Junction canopies remind me of Locust Manor shelters, the oval roof. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 13:41:42 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Jun 6 13:11:24 2019. Didn't they spread the 2 tracks west of Mott Av deliberately to plop a future Mott Av station in some day, which they did ? |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jun 6 14:15:30 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Jun 5 13:51:28 2019. When you stop and think on how construction is done nowadays, back then building box girder elevated lines, which are essentially a series of bridges, all calculations & measurements with allowances for stress & seasonal expansion/contraction were figured out by men gifted with mathematical skills along with the worlds first analog computer...the slide rule. Truly amazing.Let us not forget #2 lead pencils & legal pads! I started drafting with pencils, etc. I watched the engineers calculate stress , strain, etc. with math skills and slide rules. I graduated to 2D- Auto-Cad, and finally 3-D Solid Works. Nowadays,computers figure out stress/strain ,etc., but you have to know what to input. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 6 15:54:23 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Joe V on Thu Jun 6 13:41:42 2019. As originally built, Mott Ave was a 2 tk side platform station like the rest of the stations on the Rockaway Line and it was across Mott Av from the present station. After the city took over the Rockaway Line, the N/B track was relocated to make room for the new island platform. |
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Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again |
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Posted by VictorM on Sat Jun 8 18:04:37 2019, in response to Re: Debris falls from #7 train, again, and again, posted by Joe V on Wed Jun 5 13:49:12 2019. Almost all the columns have been replaced over the last 30 years and there have also been other structural repairs and renovations, including the stations. |
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