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| Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 (1512606) | |
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Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 13 04:16:53 2019 Tuscarora Almanac - May 12, 1955 - The Book of Last RunsA Dark Day in Transit History Manhattan, New York New York City Transit Authority IRT Division This is May 12, 1955, a Thursday and one of the very dark days in the history of the New York City Transit System. It is the last day of service on the 3rd Avenue El between the 149th Street Station in The Bronx and the Chatham Square Terminal in Manhattan. The last train left from the Chatham Square Terminal at 6:00 PM. It consisted of six MUDC motor cars; 1662, 1778, 1753, 1780, 1668 and 1671. A Look Back May 12, 1955 was a sad, sad day for New Yorkers with the closure of the last of the Manhattan Els. The last train left Chatham Square a little after 6:00 PM and arrived at 149 Street about 7:15 PM, about 45 minutes late. The train consisted of six MUDC cars and was marshaled as follows; (n) 1662-1778-1753-1780-1668-1671 (s). It was crowded with railfans and other last riders. The 3 Avenue El originally extended from South Ferry north to 129 Street with a branch on 42 Street to Grand Central Depot and another branch on 34 Street to the East River. There was also a branch to City Hall. Service began between South Ferry and Grand Central on August 26, 1878 and was extended to 129 Street by December 30, 1878. The line north of 129 Street was built by the Suburban Railway Company and was actually the fifth el. It ran as far north as Bronx Park and its also had a branch that ran to the Willis Avenue Station of the NY,NH and Hartford Railroad. Due to the fact that this el ran along 3 Avenue between 149 Street and Fordham Road it quickly became identified with the Manhattan El of the same name even though it was also used by 2 Avenue El trains. Service from 129 Street north began on May 17, 1886 and reached 149 Street by June 16, 1887. At its peak 3 Avenue El trains ran all the way between East 241 Street-White Plains Road and South Ferry. With the closure of the southern portion of the 2 Avenue El on June 13, 1942 the 3 Avenue El became the last el line in Manhattan. It was the sad fate of the 3 Avenue El to suffer “the death of 1,000 cuts.” The branch lines went first. The 42 Street Spur closed on December 6, 1923, the Harlem River Branch on or about April 14, 1924 and the 34 Street Branch on July 14, 1930. The mainline itself was closed between Chatham Square and South Ferry on December 22, 1950 although the very last train may have run in the early am hours of December 23. On this date also all el trains where cut back to Gun Hill Road from East 241 Street. The spur between Fordham Road and Bronx Park closed on November 14, 1951 and the line between Chatham Square and City Hall closed on December 31, 1953. The surviving portion of the el in The Bronx between 149 Street and Gun Hill Road lasted until April 28, 1973. (The last regular train actually ran in the early hours of April 29.) Sources: ERA Headlights , July 1955 NYD Bulletins (various issues) ERA All-Time Map of IRT Routes My own records. Tuscarora Almanac – May 12, 2015 – The Book of Wrecks Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Amtrak Northeast Corridor Line Northeast Regional Train No. 188 derails at Frankford Junction. The engine and seven cars leave the tracks. Eight people are killed and two hundred injured. The engine, a brand new Cites Sprinter ACS-64 No. 601 was heavily damaged. The seven Amfleet coaches were 81528, 82776, 82644, 43346, 82761, 82797 and 82981. Source: ERA Bulletin /June 2015 Thanks to Bzuck for the consist information. |
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| (1513042) | |
Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri May 17 10:06:55 2019, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 13 04:16:53 2019. And as I've noted before, had the EL been preserved, it still would have had to undergo a big-time rebuild during most likely the late 1950s and early '60s with a second rebuild after 9/11:Such would likely have seen the City Hall branch move to a new terminal on Chambers Street, with that then being extended around 1970-'72 to what would have become the World Trade Center Branch (likely extended to Liberty Place) and then likely in the mid-1980's extended again to Battery Park City, likely continuing south on Church Street/Trinity Place to Battery Place, then along Battery Place before turning north at the very end to a new terminal at West Thames Street, likely with stops now at West Thames, Battery Place-Trinity Place, Record Street, Cortlandt Street (transfers to all other lines there), Chambers Street-Church (transfer to the A/C and from that platform other lines) and Chambers-Lafayette (transfer to 4/5/6/J/Z) before Chatham Square. This today would likely have become the main branch and today's (8) train. As for the South Ferry Branch, it likely becomes the (9) train with the line rebuilt in stretches to two levels of single-track to accommodate the more narrow streets that branch was in. Seaport would be the only stop after South Ferry. We'd also have likely seen a rebuild allow for 10-car trains that would have meant a consolidation of some stations on the line and others moved, something like this: Chatam Square Broome Street (Transfer to J/Z and possibly B/D) Houston Street (MetroCard transfer to F) St. Mark's Place 14th Street (Transfer to L) 23rd Street 34th Street 42nd Street (Transfer to 4/5/6/7/S) 53rd Street (Transfer to E/M/6) (Initially) 59th-60th Street (Transfer to 4/5/6/N/R) (After 9/11) 60th-63rd Street (Transfer to 4/5/6/N/R/W at 60th and F/Q at 63rd) 72nd Street 79th Street 86th Street (MetroCard transfers to 4/5/6/Q) 96th Street 110th Street 125th Street (Last Stop in Manhattan, MetroCard transfers to 4/5/6) 138th Street (First Stop in The Bronx, Transfer to 6) 149th Street (Transfer to 2/5) Remaining Bronx stops would likely be similar to the old line but with some within close range of each other consolidated. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 17 11:48:18 2019, in response to Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri May 17 10:06:55 2019. LOL! |
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| (1513046) | |
Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 17 12:16:15 2019, in response to Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri May 17 10:06:55 2019. What they SHOULD have done instead was Keep and rebuild the 2nd Ave El. This way connections to Queens & the Bronx would have been maintained & The Lex Ave crowd could ave been split up more evenly between the two lines. Instead City Hall succumbed to real estate speculator pressure & fat envelopes under the table sealing the fate of the El. In addition, no politicians had the balls (or honesty) to insist the line stay up until a full subway under 2nd Ave was built to replace it (Like done at 6th Ave & Fulton St in Brooklyn). But no. We believed the pipe dream of a 2nd Ave subway to the degree of passing a bond issue for the construction $$$ & even building protype equiptment (R11)for the line. All that $$$ was diveted...and no subway.IMO the lack of reliable mass transit on the east side was a bigger setback to the city's over all growth and inrtacity rail development than Robert Moses was. But that too is debatable. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 17 15:44:36 2019, in response to Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Fri May 17 10:06:55 2019. Golfball |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:25:52 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 17 12:16:15 2019. Since you mentioned it, somehow I don’t think even the full SAS as presently constituted will do as much to ease the east side transit situation as people are hoping unless the full original plans that call for it to connect to reclaimed IRT lines in the Bronx are revived. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Dave on Fri May 17 17:27:37 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 17 11:48:18 2019. IAWTLOL. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 19 08:23:38 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 17 12:16:15 2019. The 2nd Ave el, north of 57th St, ran only 2 car locals to 129th St in the non-rush hour. You cannot depend on revenue just from rush hour fares. Ridership on the remaining Flushing/Astoria branches declined after the 1939 World's fair ended in October of 1940. Less than a year later, Sunday and pre-midnight daily ridership had fallen to the point that they were eliminated on May 19th, 1941. Yes, real estate interests had a hand in its elimination, south of 60th St. But the ridership just was not there! |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 11:58:08 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:25:52 2019. I think that, and with the new buildings going up we could potentially need BOTH a full SAS AND a rebuilt 3rd Avenue EL. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 11:59:25 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 19 08:23:38 2019. That is true, however, if you had saved the Second Avenue EL and torn down the 3rd Avenue EL instead, those stats probably change. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 21 13:32:38 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 11:58:08 2019. Probably not, since the full SAS as originally planned would be 4 track for its entire length with a portion of it with 6 tracks. That coupled with 600 ft IND sized trains would probably have been sufficient to handle the passenger loading of both el lines which operated shorter trains of IRT sized cars |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 21 14:01:12 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:25:52 2019. IAWTP. Too bad that the NYWB ROW was built over. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 14:24:40 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by randyo on Tue May 21 13:32:38 2019. That is true, however, we know that won't be the case with the SAS unless they were to also build a new lower level north of 63rd and do the rest as four tracks. As presently going to be built, I suspect we would need both lines. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 21 15:55:01 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 11:59:25 2019. False! There was no real surge in 3rd Ave el ridership when the 2nd Ave el service, north of the Queensboro Bridge, ended on June 11th, 1940. Overall ridership was just not there in the late 1930's. Most of your 2nd Ave rush hour trains to 129th St or the Bronx, were only 5 cars, including the Bergen Ave Cutoff expresses. I mentioned about the 1940-42 post-World's Fair decline in a recent posting here. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 21 17:26:26 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 14:24:40 2019. LOL! |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 17:52:45 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 21 15:55:01 2019. That you did.And its true, the declines and overall attitudes of train travel likely played into many of the declines. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue May 21 18:02:34 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 17:52:45 2019. Wally, were you ever riding along 3rd Ave in a car in Manhattan, dodging the el pillars? I remember being in my dad's old Hudson. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 22 13:58:24 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 14:24:40 2019. Again 600 ft BMT/IND sized cars vs 7 and 5 car trains of Manhattan el cars would still be sufficient to handle the loads. |
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Re: Third Avenue EL |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 22 14:01:36 2019, in response to Re: Third Avenue EL, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 21 14:01:12 2019. True. The NYW&B ROW was intended to be one of the Bx branches of the SAS. The existing Dyre Av Line could still be used for that purpose but since the lower portion of the ROW was destroyed money would have to be spent for a new Bx subway to connect it to the SAS. |
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