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| Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question (1512349) | |
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| (1512564) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sun May 12 14:30:30 2019, in response to [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:18:39 2019. Great photos. Surprised we don't see more of the open cut construction, though - these were taken only a year before subway service started. |
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| (1512566) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 12 14:38:55 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 10:19:54 2019. But the subway never used trolley wires so what tracks are those? |
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| (1512569) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 15:13:30 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Dave on Sun May 12 14:38:55 2019. They're surface tracks of elevated lines, which did use overhead wire.And if you consider the Brighton Line right of way a subway line, it used overhead, for example, in the current Sheepshead Bay Station, as the switchover point for trains continuing on the surface to Coney Island. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1512570) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 15:16:25 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by K. Trout on Sun May 12 14:30:30 2019. They are "before" pictures, taken before construction, for legal and historical reasons. |
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| (1512571) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 12 16:02:16 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 15:13:30 2019. Honestly, I had no recollection reading about the elevated lines using overhead wire. Thanks! |
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| (1512574) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 16:22:22 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Dave on Sun May 12 16:02:16 2019. They didn't use wire on the elevated lines themselves, except for transitions, but they did on the surface. |
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| (1512577) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 12 16:56:00 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 16:22:22 2019. as did elevated lines in Chicago which ramped down to street level running in Oak Park and Evanston/Wilmette. |
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| (1512586) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 12 18:30:56 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 16:22:22 2019. I was referring to the surface. |
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| (1512587) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sun May 12 19:17:38 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 15:16:25 2019. Ah got it. Now that I look at it I suppose most of the photos show enough space on either side of the tracks that the ROW must have been acquired and buildings condemned by that point - my surprise in that case is mostly that construction was started and completed in a year. |
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| (1512589) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 12 19:41:45 2019, in response to [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:18:39 2019. thanks for these. |
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| (1512593) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 12 21:37:29 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 10:19:54 2019. Something I never thought of until just now, though it seems obvious (like,why didn't I think of this before), the el trains drew their current from the overhead wires on the surface ROW's, so wouldn't that mean that the rails in the street (or on private Row) were the negative return rails - just as they are in the subway? |
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| (1512597) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 12 21:56:17 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Express Rider on Sun May 12 21:37:29 2019. That would be correct, but it is no more dangerous than it is with conventional streetcars or LRVs running in the same areas. |
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| (1512599) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 12 22:14:35 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 06:19:21 2019. Interesting about the test train. If it did operate, this might have been to see if clearances were compatible for the MP-41s? For their planned (but never put into practice) operation over the IRT into Manhattan?Would this mean that the test train might have run before the MP-41's were delivered to the LIRR? (during the summer? or fall? of 1904, when the IRT was finished but prior to the 10/27 opening? or perhaps in late 1904 or early 1905?) MP-41's began operation in 1905 (are dates of delivery and start of revenue service in Seyfried's LIRR history volume covering that period?) Thanks. |
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| (1512600) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun May 12 22:26:26 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by randyo on Sun May 12 21:56:17 2019. Yes, that's what I thought. I also read that, as you said, since it was a negative return rail there was no danger.I always saw people walking over and on the running rails of the Green Line surface routes in Boston. |
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| (1512601) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 03:32:19 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Express Rider on Sun May 12 22:14:35 2019. Art Huneke doubts the IRT Connection ever had track or was used. |
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| (1512603) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 03:40:30 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Express Rider on Sun May 12 22:26:26 2019. The historically biggest complaint with using a running rail for the return was that poor bonding of the rails could cause the electricity to find an easier path back to the powerhouse via the ground, threatening buried pipes with electrolysis.Still, the practice is still nearly universal. |
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| (1512604) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 03:45:42 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by K. Trout on Sun May 12 19:17:38 2019. Things happened faster those days.Consider that the bulk of the Subway system (except the IND) was completed within 20 years (1900-1920). |
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| (1512610) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:24:24 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 06:19:21 2019. 
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| (1512612) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:38:06 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by K. Trout on Sun May 12 14:30:30 2019.  21st Ave (August 27, 1914) 
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| (1512613) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 05:38:36 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:24:24 2019. Location of the IRT stub track. No proof it ever went through. |
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| (1512614) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:39:39 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 12 19:41:45 2019. thanks for these.You're welcome and to those who also responded. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1512617) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:50:45 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:24:24 2019. I posted that for those who never saw this before the station rebuild, thus eliminating it altogether..Bill Newkirk |
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| (1512625) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon May 13 06:31:45 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 05:38:36 2019. . |
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| (1512640) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 13 08:09:39 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:38:06 2019. I am surprised that the Tunnelrat hasn't mentioned the old Sea Beach tunnel under Fourth Avenue. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1512642) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 08:12:38 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon May 13 08:09:39 2019. Was there ever an intention to simply cover over the entire Sea Beach cut into a subway for overhead structures ? |
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| (1512645) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 08:39:10 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 08:12:38 2019. Probably not originally, but there have been proposals from time to time. |
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| (1512657) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 09:41:14 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:24:24 2019. Location of the IRT stub track. No proof it ever went through. |
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| (1512658) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 13 09:52:40 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:38:06 2019. Awesome- and less than 1 year later- it was in service!! |
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| (1512659) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 13 09:55:25 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:38:06 2019. I also like the construction trains- neat!! |
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| (1512660) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 09:56:11 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:38:06 2019. I love these old pics of once rural areas now developed. |
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| (1512665) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon May 13 10:02:21 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 09:56:11 2019. Build it, and they will come! |
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| (1512666) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 10:08:17 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 09:41:14 2019. So the "Mineola" likely never rolled on the LIRR ? |
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| (1512667) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon May 13 10:11:28 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 12 16:56:00 2019. As did the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley R.R. (Laurel Line interurban) It was third rail and trolley. |
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| (1512668) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon May 13 10:21:18 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 03:40:30 2019. The astute student will note that many track rail joints have a thick copper cable welded to the adjoining rail, except where insulated for signal purposes. |
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| (1512678) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 11:11:17 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Mon May 13 10:08:17 2019. It may have, but not via email Flatbush Avenue. |
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| (1512679) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon May 13 11:17:25 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:50:45 2019. Have they really gotten rid of it? I thought they put sheds and stuff in it, so a clear view is no longer possible, but the trackbed is still there. They did get rid of other things, such as the stairs and floor from the headhouse. |
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| (1512683) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon May 13 11:53:39 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 03:32:19 2019. If I recall from my earliest days riding the system, that trackway had ballast on it which would be evidence of track having been there at some time or another. If there were never any track, there would be no reason for there to be any ballast and all that would be there would be bare concrete. |
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| (1512696) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 13 13:46:52 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 10:30:35 2019. So, Sept 5th, 1904 (Labor Day) was the last day of service for the LIRR to the High St (Sands St) Loop? |
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| (1512704) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 14:28:06 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by randyo on Mon May 13 11:53:39 2019. Art says that the IRT had a stub track. |
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| (1512705) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 14:29:16 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 13 13:46:52 2019. Yes. |
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| (1512712) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon May 13 15:35:36 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 12 16:56:00 2019. Yep, the 4000-series Plushies had trolley poles and third rail shoes. |
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| (1512713) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon May 13 15:37:30 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 03:45:42 2019. No OSHA, less red tape, etc. |
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| (1512714) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon May 13 15:39:05 2019, in response to [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:18:39 2019. Wait - where's Sea Beach Fred? |
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| (1512720) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon May 13 17:55:27 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon May 13 05:38:06 2019. WOW! Very cool, thanks for posting! |
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| (1512721) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon May 13 18:10:42 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 09:56:11 2019. One of my favorites, this was the sales office for the real estate developer in Ditmas Park/Fiske Terrace, now the Ave H station:
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| (1512722) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon May 13 18:10:52 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 13 09:56:11 2019. One of my favorites, this was the sales office for the real estate developer in Ditmas Park/Fiske Terrace. The building is now the Ave H station:
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| (1512733) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue May 14 02:52:27 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by K. Trout on Mon May 13 18:10:42 2019. Is that a horse and buggy on Ave. H ?Bill Newkirk |
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| (1512759) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue May 14 06:48:04 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Mon May 13 09:41:14 2019. proof has been posted along with hand drawn blueprints of the track connection in the ERA`s bulletin years ago by ME. |
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| (1512760) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 14 06:53:20 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by tunnelrat on Tue May 14 06:48:04 2019. And the proof was...? |
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| (1512761) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue May 14 06:57:27 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by randyo on Mon May 13 11:53:39 2019. stub track was removed in june of 1922.the lirr connection was broken in 1916 because the B&O RR brought a lawsuit against the irt/lirr that the IRT had an unfair advantage for gaining access into the lirr whereas the B&O didn`t.the B&O won the lawsuit and the track connection was broken.WAKE UP PEOPLE,I,VE POSTED THIS RESPONCE AT LEAST HALF A DOZEN TIMES SINCE I,VE BEEN ON SUBCHAT! |
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