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| Sea Beach Line Question (1512349) | |
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| (1512349) | |
Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri May 10 12:31:38 2019 Before the Sea Beach Line was sunk into a four track cut, was the line electrified or just steam ?Bill Newkirk |
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| (1512356) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 10 13:14:43 2019, in response to Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri May 10 12:31:38 2019. Before the Sea Beach Line was sunk into a four track cut, was the line electrified or just steam ? Bill: Electric operation began on May 20, 1898. Subway trains started running in the four track open cut on March 16, 1915. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1512358) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 10 13:20:22 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 10 13:14:43 2019. Electric operation began on May 20, 1898.Was that from Bath Jct to the Sea Beach Hotel or the entire line? |
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| (1512368) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 10 15:00:27 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 10 13:20:22 2019. I will get back to you on that. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1512382) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri May 10 16:35:21 2019, in response to Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri May 10 12:31:38 2019. STEAM FIRST. |
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| (1512408) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat May 11 03:23:24 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 10 13:14:43 2019. Bill: Electric operation began on May 20, 1898. Subway trains started running in the four track open cut on March 16, 1915.Larry, RedbirdR33 Electric surface running ? Bill Newkirk |
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| (1512426) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 11 05:09:13 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat May 11 03:23:24 2019. trolleys. |
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| (1512431) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 11 05:25:23 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 11 05:09:13 2019. Tunnelrat scores again...The astute student will note the high level platforms at the terminal. Thank you, for the reminder, "Your Rodentness" 
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| (1512432) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 05:45:18 2019, in response to Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri May 10 12:31:38 2019. There was trolley wire all the way down to the 63rd dock, but the main service was a trolley from 63rd Street & 3rd Avenue el station to Coney Island. In addition (and later than the beginning of trolley service) el trains of the BRT Coney Island Express ran from Park Row via 5th Avenue and West End and then to Coney Island from Bath Junction.All electric, all surface. While the cut was being built, trolleys ran in the cut, still using trolley wire to maintain some service on what was called the 63rd Street-Sea Beach Line. |
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| (1512433) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 05:50:41 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 11 05:25:23 2019. But that's not Sea Beach. |
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| (1512434) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat May 11 05:58:51 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri May 10 13:20:22 2019. Was that from Bath Jct to the Sea Beach Hotel or the entire line? Stephen: My understanding is that at that time Third Avenue, Court Street and Fifth Avenue trolley cars ran over the line between Bath Junction and Coney Island. El trains ran over the full length of the line between the 65th Street Docks and Coney Island. The Sea Beach Place was the southern terminal until 1907 when trolley operation was discontinued and el trains re-routed to the West End Terminal. This information comes from articles written by Mr.Edward Watson and Mr. Arthur Lonto. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1512435) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat May 11 06:00:45 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat May 11 03:23:24 2019. Electric surface running ? Bill: My understanding is that at that time Third Avenue, Court Street and Fifth Avenue trolley cars ran over the line between Bath Junction and Coney Island. El trains ran over the full length of the line between the 65th Street Docks and Coney Island. The Sea Beach Place was the southern terminal until 1907 when trolley operation was discontinued and el trains re-routed to the West End Terminal. This information comes from articles written by Mr.Edward Watson and Mr. Arthur Lonto. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1512437) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 11 06:57:37 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 05:50:41 2019. Perhaps not, however it illustrates the use of "trolley" use on elevate equipment for surface running.There was similar a service of surface running on Jamaica Avenue before the elevated was extended from Crescent St. to Downtown Jamaica. |
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| (1512442) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 07:50:51 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 11 06:57:37 2019. The surface running on Jamaica Avenue lasted only months. |
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Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by fset on Sat May 11 11:47:26 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 07:50:51 2019. Sea Beach |
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| (1512453) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 11 12:46:22 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 07:50:51 2019. Any idea why? |
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| (1512463) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 15:33:14 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 11 12:46:22 2019. Nowadays we would call it a NIMBY incident.There was strong opposition in Jamaica, complaints that the big elevated were too noisy, too dangerous to be operating in the street. They got a court order against the BRT and rather than fight it any further, the BRT ended the service THE SAME DAY. That is, passengers who took the service in that morning couldn't take it home that night. They got transfers for trolleys up Jamaica Avenue. Spite? |
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| (1512464) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 11 15:46:41 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 15:33:14 2019. I wouldn't think those IRT-sized wooden el cars would make such a disturbance. Not like they we are talking about the future Triplexes. |
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| (1512465) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 16:02:04 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sat May 11 15:46:41 2019. They were also 13 feet plus high and looking at them from street level they were probably formidable.Of course, there was street running of such trains elsewhere in Brooklyn, such as on New Utrecht and Gravesend Avenues. |
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| (1512466) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 16:02:05 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sat May 11 15:46:41 2019. They were also 13 feet plus high and looking at them from street level they were probably formidable.Of course, there was street running of such trains elsewhere in Brooklyn, such as on New Utrecht and Gravesend Avenues. |
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| (1512468) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 11 16:37:15 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 07:50:51 2019. Jamaica surface running lasted from may of 1903 to December 1903.i,ve seen photos of the ramp at Jamaica ave-n- hemlock st.with EL trains laid up to the cross ties at Jamaica ave. the ramp lasted until 1917. |
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| (1512469) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 11 16:40:26 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 05:45:18 2019. before the 3rd.rail was energized,3 BRT standards were equipped with trolley poles to test the cars and roadbed. |
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| (1512470) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 11 16:43:03 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 11 16:37:15 2019. Any trace of its girders in today's structure ? |
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| (1512471) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 16:45:58 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sat May 11 16:43:03 2019. Apparently not. I've looked. |
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| (1512472) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sat May 11 17:48:21 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat May 11 06:00:45 2019. This is a great shot of at grade level at 18th ave on sea beach |
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| (1512473) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sat May 11 17:51:20 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Brightonr68 on Sat May 11 17:48:21 2019. "https://forgotten-ny.com/2017/11/sea-beach-line-18th-avenue/Hyperlink not working for some reason |
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| (1512488) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 05:28:09 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sat May 11 15:33:14 2019. Were the trolleys the passengers transferred to under the same wire used by the "el" cars?And now we know how the single seat ride ended, and the commute got looooonger. I wish I could find a photo of them. I think, at the same time the L.I.R.R. was running at grade on Atlantic avenue just a few blocks south. I think. |
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| (1512492) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 05:54:19 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 05:28:09 2019. LIRR ran at grade along Atlantic Av form Morris Park to around Norwood Ave until 1942. |
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| (1512495) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 05:57:59 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 05:28:09 2019. Yes, the el used the same wire as the trolleys.Of the Jamaica operation, there are a few pictures around; IIRC, Mr. Rat posted a couple of the best a while ago. Yes, the LIRR was on the surface for a long time. There were several joint LIRR-BRT services to Jamaica Station and Rockaway Park. |
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| (1512497) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 06:00:35 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 05:57:59 2019. Rockaway Park, yes, alternate LIRR and BRT trains.But I never heard of BRT trains to Jamaica Station. |
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| (1512500) | |
[OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:18:39 2019, in response to Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri May 10 12:31:38 2019.   August 25, 1914  13th Ave. (April 13, 1914)  Avenue O (April 13, 1914)  Avenue P (April 13, 1914)  |
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| (1512501) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 06:19:21 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 06:00:35 2019. BRT NEVER RAN TO JAMAICA STATION.THE MINEOLA DID PAST THRU THERE ON ITS WAY TO BELMONT RACE TRACK.ALSO A TEST TRAIN OF OF THE IRT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE MADE A SPECIAL THRU RUN FROM CITY HALL TO JAMAICA STATION. |
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| (1512503) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 06:25:26 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 06:19:21 2019. That would have been something though. Imagine going from Chambers Street to Long Beach or Hempstead on a 1 seat ride. |
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| (1512504) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 06:25:40 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 05:57:59 2019. Culver Line....The astute student will note trolley poles on top of El cars and lack of 3rd. rail. 
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| (1512506) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 06:29:25 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 06:25:40 2019. Where is that ? "City Yard" next to CI yard ? |
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Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 06:29:32 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 06:25:40 2019. Another view of the Culver Depot at Coney Island
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| (1512510) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 06:51:40 2019, in response to [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:18:39 2019. GREAT PHOTOS.TAKE THEM YOURSELF? |
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| (1512512) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:58:06 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 06:51:40 2019. GREAT PHOTOS.TAKE THEM YOURSELF?I'm not that old, so you must be the photographer. :) Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 07:10:33 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 06:29:25 2019. No, City Yard came later than the main part of C I Yard and was always third rail.If the picture is Culver, I would guess kings Highway yard, where Mr. Luciano began his ill-fated trek to Malbone Street. |
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| (1512517) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 07:12:00 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 07:10:33 2019. So he went to downtown Brooklyn on the Culver Line, and back on the Brighton ? |
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| (1512518) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 07:13:09 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 07:12:00 2019. To Park Row, then back to Brighton. |
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Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 07:16:29 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:58:06 2019. Touche. |
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Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun May 12 07:34:58 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 06:29:32 2019. I see a water tower in that picture.ROAR |
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| (1512533) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 12 08:59:49 2019, in response to [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:18:39 2019. Are those tracks powered by trolley wire? |
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Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun May 12 09:34:02 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Avid Reader on Sun May 12 06:29:32 2019. brt still had steam engines. |
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| (1512539) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun May 12 10:02:37 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 06:58:06 2019. I'm staying out of this one! |
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| (1512542) | |
Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun May 12 10:19:54 2019, in response to Re: [OLD PHOTOS] Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Dave on Sun May 12 08:59:49 2019. Are those tracks powered by trolley wire?There is trolley wire in all photos, so yes. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1512546) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 10:30:35 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by Joe V on Sun May 12 06:25:26 2019. The joint agreement between the BRT and LIRR had LIRR trains running from Sands Street Loop to Jamaica from the end of May 1899 until Labor Day 1904. |
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Re: Sea Beach Line Question [PHOTO] |
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Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun May 12 13:12:33 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat May 11 05:09:13 2019. This photo at Fulton Street and Flatbush Avenue was taken on Sept. 2, 1914. Interesting contrast of transportation modes, with the open air streetcar, horse and wagon, and even an automobile in the right center background.What caught my eye, though, was the Fifth Avenue El, with what looks like two trains with open side cars passing each other. I had wondered if they were Culver trains, and if so, how they got to Coney Island. Obviously it was by trolley and it appears that you can make out the folded trolley poles on the roofs of the cars that are not in shadow. The Downtown-bound train on the left has clerestory roof cars, but the Culver-bound train to the right has at least one humpback roof car. 
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| (1512559) | |
Re: Sea Beach Line Question [PHOTO] |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun May 12 13:32:23 2019, in response to Re: Sea Beach Line Question [PHOTO], posted by qveensboro_plaza on Sun May 12 13:12:33 2019. Via trolley wire on Culver. |
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