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| Speed (1510675) | |
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| (1510675) | |
Speed |
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Posted by Baltimorerail on Mon Apr 22 13:40:13 2019 If I remember correctly the older cars did not have speedometers, how did you stay at the speed limit posted? |
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| (1510682) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:29:48 2019, in response to Speed, posted by Baltimorerail on Mon Apr 22 13:40:13 2019. You eyeballed it. |
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| (1510724) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Tue Apr 23 04:34:03 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:29:48 2019. I learned all this in Physics in high school. Take the space between things, count, divide etc. Is the civil service exam that complex?All this without METRIC! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1510729) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Apr 23 06:27:01 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:29:48 2019. I pretty much agree.Back then experienced motormen could judge their speed and apply braking as needed. |
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| (1510733) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 23 08:01:02 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:29:48 2019. You eyeballed it.I think earballing would be a better description. The transmission gearing sound changed pitch proportionally to speed. The T/O eventually associated the sound pitch with a particular speed. |
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| (1510734) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 08:15:09 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 23 08:01:02 2019. TIL |
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| (1510735) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Apr 23 08:52:10 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 23 08:01:02 2019. "The T/O eventually associated the sound pitch with a particular speed."Back in those days they didn't have t/o's. They were Motormen. And still are. |
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| (1510743) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Apr 23 10:43:44 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 23 08:01:02 2019. That all would change when the R-10 & R 12s showed up & the gearing sounds all changed, if not outright disappeared. |
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| (1510753) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:25:59 2019, in response to Speed, posted by Baltimorerail on Mon Apr 22 13:40:13 2019. As part of the qualifying practical portion of the M/M test, candidates were required to make 3 starts and 3 stops and to step on a pedal attached to a machine to indicate the speed when asked by an examiner. The machine looked like an oversized lie detector and considering the methods used for the M/M candidates to indicate the speed, it was. Candidates were also required to make the 3 stops by applying the necessary brake and make 2 releases leaving 10 PSI in the brake cylinder with the second release being after the complete stop. In reality the test was mostly BS since when I took the test on the Jerome line, there were landmarks along the structure where we were supposed to indicate the speed asked for. During the first run, the examiner would tell us to indicate when were going 15 MPH, on the second run 25 MPH and on the 3rd run 35 MPH. Each one of those speeds had a distinct landmark so it was virtually impossible to miss although a few people did. While the braking part of the practical with SMEEs was relatively easy, in the old days the test was given on AMUE equipment, LO-Va on the IRT, R-1/9s on the IND and steels on the BMT and there was no air gauge to indicate the amount of air in the brake cylinder after each stop. The way it was actually done, was that as long as some air was left in the brake cylinde rafter the stop it would be concluded that it was the correct amount. |
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| (1510774) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 23 15:52:05 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:29:48 2019. I know I can make a reasonable estimate of my speed driving a car without necessarily watching the speedometer. If you've watched the speedometer all your life, you get to know the feel of a vehicle. Of course, with driving, one safe bet is simply to slow down until everyone starts to pass and then hold that speed. That won't work with a train, but I can see how an experienced train operator should be able to figure it out by instinct if necessary. |
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| (1510780) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 23 16:40:29 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Apr 23 04:34:03 2019. You must have done well on the Regents? :) |
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| (1510781) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 23 16:42:16 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 23 08:01:02 2019. Thank you for this answer. Much appreciated. |
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| (1510782) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:47:01 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by orange blossom special on Tue Apr 23 04:34:03 2019. Metric is superior. |
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| (1510783) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 23 16:50:02 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by chicagomotorman on Tue Apr 23 08:52:10 2019. re: The transmission gearing sound changed pitch proportionally to speed. The T/O eventually associated the sound pitch with a particular speed.this would have been true for the original equipment operating in Chicago as well? the cars ordered for the subway's opening (1940?) - did these have earlier AMUE or AMRE braking systems, or were they newer (SMEE or otherwise)? did any of the original "L" rolling stock have gauges indicating existing/ available air pressure, or speedometers? and were the braking systems AMUE or AMRE, or both depending when the cars were built? Thanks. |
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| (1510785) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 23 17:38:19 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:47:01 2019. I agree. I have my bathroom scale set to kilograms, and I have oral and outdoor thermometers at home that I imported from Canada. They have only Celsius markings. Ironically, some such merchandise is manufactured in the USA. |
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| (1510790) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 23 18:34:01 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:25:59 2019. "Each one of those speeds had a distinct landmark so it was virtually impossible to miss although a few people did."How did you read your speed from a landmark? 2 marks and a stopwatch, I get, but it sounds like no stopwatch was allowed. |
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| (1510791) | |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 23 18:55:33 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:47:01 2019. For engineering, yes. For many other purposes, not.Example: F vs C temps. It just happens that 1° F is the smallest temp delta most people can feel. So for common purposes (turn the heat/water up/down) 1° C is too large a unit, 1/10 C is too small. 0-100 F covers a seemingly arbitrary range of below freezing to just above body temp, but it also happens, not coincidentally, to cover the range of temps humans can handle without high-tech clothing on the low end or cooling packs/extraordinary heat acclimatization on the high end. With Celcius I have to think "42 degrees, is that deadly heat or just beach weather??" In Fahrenheit, it takes no thought to understand the implications of 90F vs 110. Some of the other units are inconvenient, but each is more than a number counting how big is a thing; a grain, a dram a furlong each hold a bit of history. For example a furlong is the length of an average plowed furrow in the English common field system. So if you were to time-travel to the scene of the real Game of Thrones (roughly, War of the Roses), furlong sized things were part of daily life and possibly conflicts. Kilometers? They mean nothing, they're French. |
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| (1510792) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 19:09:13 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 23 18:55:33 2019. I agree about Fahrenheit. Temperature is the only one where fractional and multiple units are not used (no centidegrees or kilodegrees), so the usefulness of Celsius is insignificant.As for the other units, that history is interesting but useless. So I disagree. The derivations of the metric units have their own history behind them. The polar circumference of the Earth is 40,000,000 m or 40,000 km. That’s true everywhere, not just France, and always was true and always will be true. OTOH, a plowed field is a single, forgotten fact about the climate and technology of a particular place at a particular time. Even so, it was still somewhat variable so at some point the furlong has to be defined semi-arbitrarily as ⅛ of a mile, 40 rods, 220 yards, or 660 feet. |
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| (1510793) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 19:10:52 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 23 15:52:05 2019. I hope that if you use that strategy while driving you avoid the left lane except when turning or for a left exit. |
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| (1510795) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Tue Apr 23 19:27:01 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:47:01 2019. Yes, but "1162 Kilometers" just doesn't have the same ring to it. |
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| (1510796) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 21:14:32 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 23 16:50:02 2019. Prewar Chicago equipment had no electro pneumatic brake equipment at all. The system was AMU with an M-23 brake valve a slight upgrade over the AML brake system with the M-19C brake valve as used on the BMT el cars. |
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| (1510797) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 21:30:41 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 23 18:34:01 2019. Prior to testing, the M/M/Is used a properly calibrated device to determine the point at which the train would be going at the speeds that would be requested by the examiners. If the train was passing a yellow mark painted on the 3rd rail protection board, the train was going at 15 MPH, when it passed a certain filling station, the train was going 25 MPH and when it passed a certain funeral home, the train was going at 35 MPH. at all the exams, and for all 3 stops, the trains were starting at the same locations and stopping at the same locations and the speeds asked for by the examiner were always in the same order so there was more fudge on those exam results than there is on a Carvel sundae. The 1968 M/M’s exam was the last to have a qualifying practical included. The next test was written only and the TA’s instructional staff provided a similar course of instruction called “acclamation” which pretty much accomplished the same purpose but did not per se disqualify candidates. Many civil service examiners were not transit men and figured that some sort of qualifying exam was needed to screen out the poorer performers even though the exam was basically BS. During the early 1960s, as part of the Federal Poverty Program, funds were allotted to the NYCTA for training of entry level C/Rs. The instruction program called for a light train to operate over each division with C/Rs taking turns opening the doors on the mainline. Except for the doors immediately at the C/R position, the rest of the train doors were cut out with the non operating C/Rs guarding them to prevent passengers from entering. By the time I became a C/R the program had ended and C/Rs were broken in on the various equipment in the yards where the C/Rs received more comprehensive training than they were able to get under the Poverty Program. |
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| (1510798) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Apr 23 21:31:21 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 23 18:55:33 2019. 0-100 F covers a seemingly arbitrary range of below freezing to just above body temp, but it also happens, not coincidentally, to cover the range of temps humans can handle without high-tech clothing on the low end or cooling packs/extraordinary heat acclimatization on the high end.In addition, 0 was the approximate typical low temperature in Mr. Fahrenheit's home town, and 100 is approximately human body temperature. |
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| (1510799) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Apr 23 21:45:00 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 19:09:13 2019. They should have made a "degree" that amount that a joule of energy could raise a gram of water. The factor of 4.19 is so annoying. |
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| (1510805) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 03:40:11 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 21:30:41 2019. Terrific story, thanks, randyo |
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| (1510810) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 04:00:13 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:47:01 2019. Lake Superior! |
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| (1510814) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 05:27:17 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 23 18:55:33 2019. Yes, well Fahrenheit is more a measure of comfort rather than of temperature. Dr. Fahrenheit used 32 degrees as the MELTING point of ice and 96 degrees as at body temperature as his scale anchors. Dr. F. took body temperature measures and averaged down to arrive at 96.In Centigrade, a more scientific scale, is based on water rather than comfort where 0 is the FREEZING point of water, and 100 is the boiling point of water. 1 Cal is the amount of energy that it takes to raise 1 ml of water 1 degree. So ROAR |
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| (1510816) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 05:35:53 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 23 15:52:05 2019. Yeah, well no.LION sets speed control of him to 79 mph (75 mph speed lomit) all well and good, but I can eaisly get up to 95 if I drive without the control. Scary on wet pavement or on ice, but there it is. You turn the speed controll off to be safe, and then find yourself going 85 mph. LIONS drive many different cars, not all of them are the same. We have nine cars in our garage, and I always try to get the blue van, but if some one else has it I may have to settle for a different car. It rides differently. ROAR |
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Re: Speed |
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Posted by Mr RT on Wed Apr 24 07:06:32 2019, in response to Speed, posted by Baltimorerail on Mon Apr 22 13:40:13 2019. Keep applying power until your balls hurt :-) |
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Re: Speed |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Apr 24 08:15:40 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 05:35:53 2019. "You turn the speed controll off to be safe, and then find yourself going 85 mph."The Interstates were originally designed to allow the stylish but clumsy drum-braked clunkers of the '50s to cruise at 80 mph with no particular driver skill, so if you find yourself going 85 on an Interstate in a modern car, your are unconsciously in sync with the design of the road. On a dry surface with good visibility, just about any modern car (normal car, not a full size van or a ~Smart) is good for a steady 100 on an interstate. You do need a good front end alignment, the some factory specs call for a setting that gains a fraction of an mpg but results in high-speed front end wander, very annoying. |
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| (1510833) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 24 08:48:07 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by AlM on Tue Apr 23 21:45:00 2019. Then use calories. |
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| (1510834) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 24 08:49:51 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 05:27:17 2019. It’s actually 1 cal. There is a distinction as 1 Cal with a capital C is actually 1 kcal. Nutritional information in the US is reported this way. If there’s one thing that should be changed, it’s that. |
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| (1510835) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 08:54:26 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 24 08:49:51 2019. yup... LION node dat, tanks for da klarifikatiopn.ROAR |
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| (1510836) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 24 08:55:23 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 08:54:26 2019. I figured you did. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 09:41:40 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Apr 24 08:15:40 2019. On the Penna. Turnpike, which has a 70 mph speed limit in straight areas, it's easy to go 85.The car handles well , I'm not going to try higher than 85..... |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Apr 24 09:44:38 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 24 08:48:07 2019. But much of life is in joules (e.g., kwhrs are directly related to joules, not calories).Too late to make the change now. :) |
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| (1510850) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 24 10:35:25 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 09:41:40 2019. Although the roads are designed for higher speeds, I prefer not to travel much more than the posted speed limit on the GSP which is 65 MPH. Of course If I had steel wheels on rails under me instead of rubber on concrete, I would feel differently. |
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| (1510852) | |
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Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Apr 24 10:40:43 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 24 10:35:25 2019. Rubber on concrete has a consistently better braking rate than steel on steel.Forget about steel-on-steel if there are wet leaves on the tracks. The consistently better braking rate and resulting tighter headways, is why automated peoplemovers and subway systems like Montreal's use rubber on concrete. |
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| (1510859) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Apr 24 11:10:07 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 19:09:13 2019. Every citizen of every other country in the world seems to have no difficulties with Celsius. |
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| (1510860) | |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 24 11:12:12 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Wed Apr 24 10:40:43 2019. It’s not so much as the braking rate as the necessity to make sure I stay in my lane. With rails at least I know I wont sideswipe anything next to me unless I actually derail. |
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| (1510875) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 24 12:57:30 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 09:41:40 2019. Driving out to Yellowstone last year, there is a stretch in I-25 where the speed limit is 80mph. When you go that fast, you really got to be on your toes. You're car should be in good shape, especially your tires. A blowout at that speed could lead to a quick trip to the morgue. In addition, absolutely no texting while driving. I've seen a few at that speed texting. Truly suicidal. All the while saying to myself "wheres a cop when you need one?" |
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| (1510876) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed Apr 24 13:03:17 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 09:41:40 2019. Sounds like the speed limit for cars should be raised to 80 then. If people of our average age on this board can drive 85, then 80 is pretty reasonable. When I was younger 85 felt too slow, of course. |
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Re: Speed |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 24 13:42:59 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 21:14:32 2019. Thank you.Reading this, I was at first surprised that there had been no upgrade to electro-pneumatic, but then I thought, with this much older fleet, and the characteristics of the "L" ROW, that CTA thought it would be an un-necessary expense. Also re: the M-19C brake valve - did you mean that some of the Chicago fleet was AML, or just a comparison with the BMT el fleet, stating that the latter used the AML/ M-19C equipment? Some Manhattan el cars (from the grand roster) are shown as being high voltage, others converted to low voltage (and some being electrified & Low-Voltage as built?). Did the portions of the fleet use AMU or AML braking? Was any portion converted or upgraded to electro-pneumatic? (the Composites were converted to Low voltage when transferred, correct? And would they have had electro-pneumatic braking - since they had operated in trains with the Gibbs cars which were upgraded to electro-pneumatic within what - ten years of the IRT's opening - or were they prohibited from operating in the subway with steel cars before the electro-pneumatic upgrade to the latter) Also, I had been told that the BU's were low voltage so they could operate with the MP-41's, also Low Voltage. So, was the BMT el fleet AML with low-voltage? But didn't the MP41's have AMU (or AMUE?), or were they triple valve as well? Thank you in advance! |
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| (1510882) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 14:05:55 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 24 12:57:30 2019. Texting while driving is a killer. My new car has Apple Car Play, talk to text, probably just as distracting. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 14:32:35 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 24 12:57:30 2019. 80 mph is not big deal.... do it all of the time.99 on a fogy night in the ambulance was another matter. That was scary. ROAR |
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| (1510892) | |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 15:06:40 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 14:32:35 2019. 99 on a fogy night in the ambulance was another matter. That was scary.That was nuts, way too fast, and on a foggy night, yet:(:(:( I drove my buddy's 1962 Chevy 409/409 at a drag strip, 0-60 in like 5 seconds , I don't remember my top speed at the end of the 1/4 mile, but it may have been 90 mph. |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Apr 24 16:18:50 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 14:32:35 2019. Us city folk do 80-90-100+...only for short stretches. Speeding tickets & points get expensive. I speak of 80 mph as cruising speed. That we're (me) unaccustomed to. As far as doing 99 on a foggy night in an ambulance, lucky nobody had to sent an ambulance, or coroner for you. |
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Re: Speed |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Apr 24 16:50:11 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by Steamdriven on Wed Apr 24 13:03:17 2019. On most freeways in Italy the limit is 130km, which is about 80 mph. |
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| (1510902) | |
Re: Speed |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Apr 24 16:53:29 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by italianstallion on Wed Apr 24 11:10:07 2019. It’s the weakest case to be made for conversion. |
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| (1510918) | |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Apr 25 03:46:37 2019, in response to Re: Speed, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Apr 24 15:06:40 2019. 99 mph, x 80 miles, we passed no one. Remner, this is ND before the oil boom that we are talking aout.Farmers have enough sense to stay in bed at night, roar |
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