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| Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms (1509966) | |
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| (1509971) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Allan on Sun Apr 14 16:23:34 2019, in response to Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by JRR4 on Sun Apr 14 15:22:52 2019. Blinking green lights indicate that CBTC is active in that area.As for the stop arms I would assume that signal relays in some fashion are still in use. |
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| (1510001) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Apr 14 23:06:36 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Allan on Sun Apr 14 16:23:34 2019. Do the stop arms go up in the blinking-light areas? When a train passes a blinking signal the signal doesn't turn red but just keeps blinking green. I thought the CBTC system controls the emergency braking and the allowable distances between trains. |
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| (1510004) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Sun Apr 14 23:54:10 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by gbs on Sun Apr 14 23:06:36 2019. From when I lived along the L train, the CBTC signals always had there stops down.Only home signals would display Stop-Signal and have the trips up unless they were fleeted, in which case they displayed flashing green and functioned the same as other signals). This was true of any signal I saw, and we got within about 1 or 2 car lengths of our leader and CBTC signal flashed green and the trip arm stayed down. |
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| (1510010) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by bulk88 on Mon Apr 15 06:02:11 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by gbs on Sun Apr 14 23:06:36 2019. If the last AWS track circuit is empty the arm will go up and signal is red. CBTC is basically an automatic key-by. If next train is under 2 track circuits away, it stays flashing green. |
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| (1510017) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Mon Apr 15 07:20:42 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Apr 15 09:08:59 2019. With full CBTC, why do you need conductors? With the reduced workload, you'd think OPTO would be appropriate. |
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| (1510020) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Apr 15 07:56:01 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Apr 15 07:20:42 2019. Contractual reasons.TWU won't allow trains over a certain length to operate without a T/O and C/R onboard. |
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| (1510006) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Mon Apr 15 09:08:59 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Jsun21 on Sun Apr 14 23:54:10 2019. CBTC, not the stop arm will stop a train that gets too close to his leader or overspeeds and will not wait until the train is near a signal to enforce any penalty.Flashing green just means CBTC is in effect it does not convey any speed to operate at or other track condition. When full CBTC is in effect the cabs will be full of just button pushers >G<. |
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| (1510056) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 15 14:39:00 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Apr 15 07:56:01 2019. I suspect that with the current NYCTA president, the union may have an uphill battle since AFAIK, all of London Transport is OPTO. |
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| (1510075) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Apr 15 17:11:11 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Apr 15 07:56:01 2019. Of course, contracts can be renegotiated, and AirTrain is fully automated, so some day we may see Fully Automated Subway Trains (FAST). |
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| (1510089) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Keeping the RAPID in Rapid Transit on Mon Apr 15 20:37:06 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Steamdriven on Mon Apr 15 07:20:42 2019. 'With full CBTC, why do you need conductors? With the reduced workload, you'd think OPTO would be appropriate'What makes you believe a 'reduced workload' exists? Conductors still have to safely open/close side doors, Train Operators - even if not actually moving the train's controller - still have to be vigilant at all times to ensure the computerized ATO (automatic train operation) is, in fact, working as designed. |
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| (1510115) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 16 06:01:34 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Keeping the RAPID in Rapid Transit on Mon Apr 15 20:37:06 2019. What makes you believe a 'reduced workload' exists? Conductors still have to safely open/close side doors, Train Operators - even if not actually moving the train's controller - still have to be vigilant at all times to ensure the computerized ATO (automatic train operation) is, in fact, working as designed.The most widely used transit in NYC is ZPTO - elevators. There used to be about 50K elevator operators in NYC. Automation did not reduce safety. I had a summer job working for NY Tel in 1962. I was designing a test bay for the NY Tel's first microwave link. There was some question regarding size for the buildings in which these test bays would be placed. There was a strike on at that time. The department manager I had to see was operating an elevator at the headquarters building. I got the necessary information from him while riding up and down in his elevator. NY Tel automated those elevators soon after the strike was settled. I rode the automated 42nd St Shuttle, back in the early 1960's. The union forced an operator to be on board to monitor the equipment and ensure safety. That T/O took up a seat in the passenger area and was reading a newspaper, while the train was in a station or moving between stations. He never budged from his seat. |
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| (1510116) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Apr 16 06:37:06 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Apr 16 06:01:34 2019. So I suppose the question is which machines need oversight, and which ones don't. The good thing about elevators is that they tend to be the only vehicles in their respective rights-of-way, and are in an enclosed area, making the presence of some foreign object obstruction or development unlikely. One elevator also carries many less people than most trains.Most commercial airliners are not yet at the point of reliability that make them just as safe without pilots, though that is likely to change. Trains are in a separate category carrying hundreds of people in a setting that is often quite vulnerable to outside circumstances. Not saying ATO can't be done (it is being done in many places already) but it will come down to what level of safety culture there is (is having someone in the know on topics like, for example, conducting a rapid evacuation of the vehicle, practical or not in day-to-day service?) |
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| (1510119) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Tue Apr 16 06:46:22 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Apr 15 17:11:11 2019. or ATO...automatic train operation.Ala WMATA/DC Metro was designed to be. |
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| (1510143) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 16 13:08:45 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Apr 16 06:37:06 2019. The NYC subway wasn't designed with the concept of ATO, but perhaps it could be done on carefully selected segments. It was already proven to work on the Times SQ shuttle. The 7 is isolated from other lines, perhaps it's worth a try there. A train is basically a horizontal elevator with a less protected guideway, and on the subway it's also lacking interior (platform) doors. |
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| (1510144) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 16 13:16:41 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Steamdriven on Tue Apr 16 13:08:45 2019. Paris retrofitted line 1 with platform doors and when I was there last year was in the process of doing the same to line 4. Certainly, this can be done on the L and 7. |
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| (1510173) | |
Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms |
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Posted by jrf2 on Wed Apr 17 00:53:12 2019, in response to Re: Question about signal lights on the 7 and trip arms, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Apr 15 17:11:11 2019. All airport trams are ZPTO. |
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