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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 20:52:58 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Apr 13 18:52:04 2019.

Yup!

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(1509919)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Apr 13 21:24:46 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 18:14:53 2019.

There should be a universal car that will adapt to all track gauges, overrunning, underrunning third rail, catenary, FRA, ASC, PTC, CBS, NBC, ABC, Mutual, whatever. It should also have emergency wings and a floatation device in case it encounters a collapsed bridge and an emergency bore on the front end in case a tunnel collapses in front of it. The fact that such a car has not been developed is simply inexcusable and a sign of wanton incompetence on the part of transit agencies. At the least, someone should develop a mockup of such a car so that we can see what we are missing.

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(1509930)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 14 00:52:26 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 06:53:38 2019.

At least the older NTTs should be upgradeable to whatís in the later models. When the R-179s come in, the R-143a snd 160s should be upgradeable to MU. Back in the days of the SMEEs, the car contracts specified that the cars must be fully compatible with all equipment from the R-10s up to the present (the present at the time of the new car order that is). While it is impractical to have the NTTs compatible with SMEEs, the contracts could and should specify that the new cars be compatible with all cars from the R-142s and up.

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(1509933)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 14 01:03:37 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 17:18:41 2019.

I wonder why the NYCT didnít use the silver appliquť on the R-44s when it decided to do away with the blue stripe. The silver paint look e a bit cheesy.

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(1509935)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 14 01:08:54 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Apr 13 16:53:00 2019.

Well there is no practical way to interoperate the BMT/IND with the IRT either but within the respective fleets there can be compatibility between the older cars and the newer ones until as with the case of the R-142s, technology develops that is so radically different from what exists that it absolutely canít be done.

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(1509949)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 14 10:28:50 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 14 00:52:26 2019.

I definitely agree the NTTs should be upgraded to and including from R-142 to R-179.
Use the reaming r-110A and R-110B cars as test beds to allow a smooth transition from R-Type to R-Type.

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(1509950)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 14 10:28:55 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 14 00:52:26 2019.

I definitely agree the NTTs should be upgraded to and including from R-142 to R-179.
Use the reaming r-110A and R-110B cars as test beds to allow a smooth transition from R-Type to R-Type.

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(1509960)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 14 13:36:18 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Apr 13 21:24:46 2019.

nice!

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(1510021)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by rbseabeach on Mon Apr 15 07:58:58 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:34:50 2019.

agreed.
But didn't someone think about the interior flat stainless steel which is vulnerable to scratching. Just look at elevators.
Even restroom stalls or inside of elevators have a matted stainless steel surface just like the R-160's end walls.

Look how well the R-44 & 46 interiors lasted. These interiors were all covered with spray paint and markers back in the 70's & 80's but today they are spotless. No scratches and no patches.

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(1510062)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 15 15:08:03 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by rbseabeach on Mon Apr 15 07:58:58 2019.

It was probably just a thought on the part of New Car Engineering which didnít work out.

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(1510072)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by George Foelschow on Mon Apr 15 16:39:50 2019, in response to R211 Mockup, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Apr 10 15:42:17 2019.

"Looks like the R211 will be the new 4000s." Maybe so, but there is absolutely no comparison to Chicago's beloved 4000s, that city's first steel cars, dating from 1901, car 4001, built by Cincinnati Car Company.

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(1510103)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Apr 16 02:58:52 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by George Foelschow on Mon Apr 15 16:39:50 2019.

"Looks like the R211 will be the new 4000s." Maybe so, but there is absolutely no comparison to Chicago's beloved 4000s, that city's first steel cars, dating from 1901, car 4001, built by Cincinnati Car Company.

"Baldy" at Cermak Rd (September 1934)

image host

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(1510108)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by rbseabeach on Tue Apr 16 04:08:29 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 15 15:08:03 2019.

Thank you.
But it was so disappointing because at that time other cars were having GOH's completed and these shiny new cars were supposed to be a symbol of pristine cleanliness.
Since they were introduced at at time when David Gunn was on a mission to provide graffiti-free subway cars by 1989, these new cars were supposed to remain clean and not get vandalized like the R-44 7 R-46.
I guess this is why I am so fixated on this issue since ironically today these cars are the ones that have permanent vandalism in the form of scratches.

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(1510130)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by George Foelschow on Tue Apr 16 07:47:46 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Apr 16 02:58:52 2019.

My fingers slipped. Chicago's Baldies date from 1914, not 1901. Shore Line Interurban Historical Society (www.shore-line.org) published a publication in its Dispatch series (5) on the great steel fleet, the Baldies.
Bill, excellent rare photo of a Baldy, 4243, with side sign reading "Normal Pk Local".

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(1510137)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Apr 16 11:57:53 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 11:21:33 2019.

I won't miss the R42 & R46. They looked good when new. Now- not so much (being very kind). I will miss the R32s.

Thank you.

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(1510163)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by R30A on Tue Apr 16 17:33:21 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:45:25 2019.

Yes, but the only part which can has a full wayside signaling system so it really isn't an issue.

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(1510175)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 17 02:48:10 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Apr 16 02:58:52 2019.

Wow- cool machine!

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(1510176)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 17 02:51:21 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 22:22:06 2019.

At a minimum, proper route colors should be used with NTTs. And yeah, bigger routes signs as well.

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(1510234)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 17 16:02:48 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 17 02:51:21 2019.

It sounds like the MTA is too cheap to display the route colors on the NTTs.

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(1510243)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 02:40:33 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 17 16:02:48 2019.

That's too bad. LED flat screens are so cheap nowadays- one could be mounted behind glass, to keep steel dust and other debris out, in the same/equivalent spot where the R42/46/62/62A/68/68A display the route.

I see no good reason not to do it. I mean, yeah, it'd add $200 to the $2 million that a subway car already costs, but that's hardly a good reason. And with the linked sets used on NTTs, only the #1 ends of A Unit cars would need them anyway.

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(1510244)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 02:43:21 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 17:28:54 2019.

Yes, one would think that. I could forgive them for making the R143 and R160 different- the R143 was the first of its type for the B Division, and they were learning. But the R179s- I see no excuse for ordering a small, incompatible fleet. The R179s should have been compatible with the R160s, or even, as someone else pointed out, the R143s.




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(1510264)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Apr 18 09:05:47 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 02:43:21 2019.

A 316 (or 318) car order is something I would not consider a small order.

Same for the original 300 car order.

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(1510267)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 18 09:19:17 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Apr 18 09:05:47 2019.

300 incompatible cars, itself divided in 4 and 5 cars sets, in a "B" Division sea of nearly 4,000 cars, is a small fleet by our standards.

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(1510271)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 18 09:29:59 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 02:40:33 2019.

correct

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(1510274)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 10:16:24 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Apr 18 09:05:47 2019.

Matter of opinion, I suppose. But compare it to the Arnine and R160 orders....

I'll admit it's a bigger order than the R15s or R38s...

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(1510277)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 18 10:28:50 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 10:16:24 2019.

At least R15's and R38's were often mixed with other cars classes with no problems. Did a solid consist of R15's on Main Line IRT ever run ?

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(1510278)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 11:12:41 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 18 10:28:50 2019.

I'll check out Roger Arcara's and Frank Phuler's videos and nycsubway.org to see if I can find any evidence that they did...

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(1510282)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 18 11:58:10 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 18 02:40:33 2019.

Maybe Prince Andrew should step in and order a retrofit.

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(1510283)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 18 12:13:33 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 18 10:28:50 2019.

They might have, but around that time, the IRTís C & S Dept decided to assign cars to barns by electrical manufacture rather than car type thus 240 and Westchester barns were WH while Mosholu, 239, and E180 were GE barns. Since the 3 Line cars were maintained at 240 Barn, the 1 and 3 shared car fleets. The situation got more complicated when 2 way radios were installed and due to problems C/Rs were having mounting the steps on the R-12/14s with newly installed radio antennas, all cars with outside door controls were banned from C/R operating positions. Somehow, for whatever strange reason, the R-15s were also banned even though they had inside cab door controls. Even after smaller radio antennas were installed on those cars the IRT Supt keptthe ban in place on all lines except for the 3 Av El and Bwlg Grn shuttle which were the only lines that had a 100% R-12/14 car fleet.

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 18 15:10:27 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 18 11:58:10 2019.

He'll wrap them in Cuomo stripes. That's about it.

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Apr 18 16:33:55 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 18 11:58:10 2019.

He'd probably have the route bullet alternate with his mug shot.

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(1510367)

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Re: R211 Mockup

Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 19 12:29:46 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 18 15:10:27 2019.

Not necessarily. If he thinks it will improve his image, he might order a retrofit since CTAís 5000s can display all the colors and he would want NY to be better.

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