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R211 Mockup |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Apr 10 15:42:17 2019 As seen in the Facebook group "Transit Photos and Videos", posted by Mr. Edwards.Looks like the R211 will be the new 4000s. 
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Apr 10 15:58:23 2019, in response to R211 Mockup, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Apr 10 15:42:17 2019. Which means that should the R-211 contract will provide a very large car order, taken will all the available additional options, the R-42's are definitely be going in post haste.-William A. Padron ["SMEE"] |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Apr 10 22:06:25 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Apr 10 15:58:23 2019. I assumed that once all the R-179s are running, the R-42s will be gone at that time. That clears the numbers up to 5000 (recall that the R-68As start at 5001). |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 11:21:33 2019, in response to R211 Mockup, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed Apr 10 15:42:17 2019. Mock up? A final design inspection car for the MTA to check out before full building begins?I understand,this is a Full build...all components..systems. Beautiful piece of machinery that is basically the same NTT design With modifications of the late 90s. Hey...if its works,then it works. 1500 of these cars are going to be built over the next 5 years...so that means good bye to the 32/42/46,and the beginning of the end for the 68s. This is will most likely be the design that will replace the remaining 75ft car order in the near future..completing the NTT take over of the B Division. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 11 14:43:56 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 11:21:33 2019. Considering that the R-46s were GOHed with electronic signs and OB drawheads that are compatible with those on the NTTs, none of which the R-68s have, it wouldn’t surprise me if the R-68s go before the R-46s. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Apr 11 14:45:53 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 11 14:43:56 2019. But aren't the car bodies suffering from issues inside the frame itself? |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 15:55:44 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 11 14:43:56 2019. Yeah...but looking at What the MTA WANTS to do with its rolling stock, both 62 and 68 models would have to undergo a massive rebuild to get them up to snuff.MTA is basically going the PA rpute. Build brand new cars to replace the 1980s stock instead of a major overhaul. I mean honestly,I like the 46s..and if it were my call...Id send them out to get a NEW CAR REBUILD like PATCO did. Total overhaul top to bottom. The same can be done to the 68s,but i guess they want this badly conceived idea a thing of the past with a UNIFORMED FLEET. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 15:56:02 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 11 14:43:56 2019. Yeah...but looking at What the MTA WANTS to do with its rolling stock, both 62 and 68 models would have to undergo a massive rebuild to get them up to snuff.MTA is basically going the PA route. Build brand new cars to replace the 1980s stock instead of a major overhaul. I mean honestly,I like the 46s..and if it were my call...Id send them out to get a NEW CAR REBUILD like PATCO did. Total overhaul top to bottom. The same can be done to the 68s,but i guess they want this badly conceived idea a thing of the past with a UNIFORMED FLEET. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 16:05:30 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 15:55:44 2019. If it weren't for the constantly shrinking life cycles of the underlying components, the ideal would be ONE basic model for each division with as many identical parts as possible. This gives you a smaller diversity of spare parts necessary to stock, fewer special tools to have, shorter learning curves for newly delivered cars.Sure, aesthetically it is more entertaining to have multiple models, and, if you think each new model has design defects which need to be corrected, then changes are beneficial. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 11 16:38:11 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 11 14:43:56 2019. Or maybe a mixture of the two, just as thy got rid of some R10's before all the R16's. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 11 16:39:34 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 15:56:02 2019. R143, R160, R179, and R211 all incompatible. Uniform in being NTT concept. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 17:28:03 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 11 16:39:34 2019. incompatible is correctly spelled incompetently specified.imagine you were an auto mechanic some decades back w/ cars requiring SAE, Metric, and BSW tools because the car makers were too cheap to order parts using a single standard of fasteners. (this was the case with Saabs in the 60s) |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 11 17:28:54 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 11 16:39:34 2019. You would think that backward tech to make such vehicles operationally compatible WOULD HAVE BEEN forward thinking.So far..the 160s A and B units are the only cars that can. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 11 17:55:05 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 17:28:03 2019. Just as CBTC Canarsie will not be the same as CBTC Queens IND.They will have to keep track of which identical looking NTT train goes where out of ENY yard. |
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| (1509734) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Apr 11 18:28:04 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 17:28:03 2019. incompatible is correctly spelled incompetently specified.FWIW, most of the rest of the world generally doesn't run mixed multiple units together... |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 18:45:11 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 11 17:55:05 2019. dumb or corrupt. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 18:52:00 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Thu Apr 11 18:28:04 2019. that's as maybe. NYCTA needs flexibility so that emergency reroutes canhappen within a division (yes, I get the 7 is an exception), but other than the excess length cars, most B division cars can run anywhere on that division. If one contemplates the L shutdown plan, that envisioned multiple equipment diversions. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Apr 11 20:01:57 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 16:05:30 2019. For aesthetics they could try actually painting the bland NTTs. Have each yard/shop come up with their own color scheme and use it for their trains - they could do it on the cheap with wraps. It will also benefit the riding public by providing subconscious cues as to what route the train is on.When equipment is transferred from one yard to the other, re-wrap. |
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| (1509743) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Apr 11 21:15:29 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 18:52:00 2019. You don't need to mix a consist to reroute trains. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 22:22:06 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Apr 11 20:01:57 2019. I suppose wraps would be okay--actual paint on stainless is kind of a waste. I would have favored a return to the corrugated style of Budd or for the lower sides, their "slab side" trim which was often used on cars which were painted, but looked very nice (by my standards) unpainted. I would also favor a return to the R40 style large route signage because given my eyesight it would be more user friendly. I find the miniscule route signage on the fronts of the NTTs and the black areas ugly and pointless. |
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| (1509745) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 22:24:04 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by R30A on Thu Apr 11 21:15:29 2019. No, but if as another poster suggested the CBTC equipment is route specific, then a rerouted train would be hobbled. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 12 13:21:55 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Apr 11 14:45:53 2019. Not so much.Age always comes into play..but careful examination(which Im sure they have done),would point out any warping issues or body rot. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Apr 12 14:04:37 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 11 14:43:56 2019. i hope so. I remember them brand new on the N & DFirst the vandals had a field day scratching up the polycarbonate windows, then came the acid and the walls. Now that the walls are all scratched up, they are using several strokes to let their vandalism stand out. I was on car 2738 yesterday and the was some serious scratched tags. The other issue that came out of this is the vandals also will scratch the R-142 (a) and those patch sheets have to be installed to cover it up. I was on an R-188 yesterday (7858 I think) and there was a large patch sticker at the top of the end wall. THose 68's & 62's are a disaster esthetically. |
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| (1509821) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:28:01 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Apr 11 20:01:57 2019. Having cars painted a specific color of the line wouldn’t work since most barns supply severallines and there is no guarantee that cars assigned to a specific line would not have to be used on another line if necessary to make service. The onlt places that would work are citied where there is absolutely no interlining of equipment at all and AFAIK that would limit it to Philly and Boston. Most other cities have interlining of equipment. |
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| (1509822) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:32:17 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 22:24:04 2019. The fault of MTA upper management that fails to DEMAND that all NTTs be fully compatible and there must be ONE standard CBTC system for ALL lines. Granted that computer systems are constantly improving but both car equipment systems and signal systems should br upgradable like most computers. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 12 19:33:52 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:28:01 2019. How often do R160's shift back and forth between Jamaica and Coney Island yards ? |
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| (1509825) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:34:50 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Apr 12 14:04:37 2019. The idea behind having bland paintless stainless steel exteriors and interiors was a logical reaction to the graffiti epidemic rampant on the NYCTS at the time. |
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| (1509837) | |
Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Apr 12 20:10:57 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:32:17 2019. The fault of MTA upper management that fails to DEMAND that all NTTs be fully compatibleAs I noted earlier, if this happens, NYCTA would end up being one of the few agencies world-wide with that demand. We're going to either end up paying through the nose for that custom feature, or we'll get a failed spec with the agency taking a token payment in exchange for not meeting the spec. there must be ONE standard CBTC system for ALL lines That's an interesting comment given that Paris RATP has been pushing for interoperability for their CBTC installations. IIRC, multiple contracts have been given to Alstom, Ansaldo, and Siemens* for CBTC units. Per this, NYCTA is trying to do something similar between its existing suppliers, Siemens and Thales. *The Siemens installation is related to Canarsie Line's CBTC installation... should br upgradable like most computers They're not like most computers. They're digital industrial control systems, not off the shelf desktop systems. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Apr 12 21:12:23 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 11 22:24:04 2019. The L and 7 are testbeds which don't have any need to interline with the rest of the system. Everywhere else is being converted to a common system. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Apr 12 21:27:50 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by R30A on Fri Apr 12 21:12:23 2019. okay. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 06:53:38 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:32:17 2019. They should at least rebuild the R143 to be compatible with the R179. Two small fleets would be one moderate sized fleet. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 06:54:24 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by R30A on Fri Apr 12 21:12:23 2019. We'll see if that holds true in 10 years. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 07:16:36 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Apr 12 20:10:57 2019. I never understood why NYCT moved away from interoperability between car fleets. Everything in SMEE on both divisions was compatible, and that paid off big time during the late '70s and '80s. The IRT by around 1979 was a very clear illustration of the benefits of compatibility, as there were dog's breakfast consists running all the time to make service.Why the NTTs on the IND and BMT weren't made compatible is beyond me. Whatever cost might have been involved, would be made up in flexibility. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 07:18:22 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 07:16:36 2019. I don't think the LIRR M7 and M9 will be compatible in service either, although some of us saw a You Tube a few months ago of a mixed-consist test run. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 07:19:52 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:34:50 2019. Then why did LIRR strip most of their M1 and M3 fleets of their blue band - they never had a graffiti problem. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 07:21:22 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 07:18:22 2019. That's another thing...M1 and M3 were compatible on the LIRR (never saw them running together in a train on Metro North). In fact, the whole idea of the LIRR M3 order was to add cars to existing M1 trains to increase capacity... |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Apr 13 08:41:53 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 07:19:52 2019. Then why did LIRR strip most of their M1 and M3 fleets of their blue band - they never had a graffiti problem.There have been some instances where LIRR MU's were tagged in places like Hempstead where the trains were laid up. Also, when the paint starts to peel off, repainting the stripe becomes more down time in the shop. Better off to remove the stripe and not restore it. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 10:00:24 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 07:21:22 2019. They went through 22 brief periods around 1986- 88 that the M1 and M3 were segregated, but that fell apart with Ronkonkoma electrification.At first, 12 car trains of M-3's were tripping substation breakers. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 10:27:33 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 10:00:24 2019. 2 brief periods |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Apr 13 11:07:29 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 07:16:36 2019. With 4- and 5-car sets, interoperability becomes less of an issue. With married pairs, it's more useful. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:36:35 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Apr 13 08:41:53 2019. It was explained to me by a retired M/N trainmaster that the reason the LIRR eliminated the blue stripe while M/N retained was that M/N has an OSHA compliant paint shop whileLIRR does not so it was easier for the LIRR to simply do away with the blue stripe. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:42:58 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Apr 12 20:10:57 2019. Why would we be the only agency with that demand. If all the transit agencies were to unite and make the same demands then compatibility would become the industry standard. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:45:25 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by R30A on Fri Apr 12 21:12:23 2019. Unlike the 7, the L could conceivable interline with other BMT Eastern lines. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Apr 13 16:53:00 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:42:58 2019. Most transit agencies wouldn't need it, though. For example Boston and Philly have no interoperability between their subway lines. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 17:18:41 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:36:35 2019. It later years for the LIRR, it was not blue paint, but blue applique. On those cars, notice the 1" seam at the top of the blue panel was not blue at that point. When it was painted, the paint would buckle. Then they went to a silver applique on some cars with a tarnished stainless finish. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 18:14:53 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Apr 13 16:53:00 2019. Philly's subway lines don't even share the same track gauge! |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 13 18:42:16 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:42:58 2019. I suppose MBTA Red Line and SEPTA Broad Street subway could use the same identical car, and a joint order could save on procurement costs, but they each order cars when they do.Baltimore and Miami started with identical cars, but now the Miami fleet is getting replaced. |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Apr 13 18:52:04 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 13 18:14:53 2019. Market St. is Broad gauge,5'-2 1/2",Broad st. subway is standard gauge, 4'-8-1/2". |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Apr 13 19:24:12 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 13 16:36:35 2019. It was explained to me by a retired M/N trainmaster that the reason the LIRR eliminated the blue stripe while M/N retained was that M/N has an OSHA compliant paint shop whileLIRR does not so it was easier for the LIRR to simply do away with the blue stripe.That is true. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: R211 Mockup |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sat Apr 13 20:20:06 2019, in response to Re: R211 Mockup, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 12 19:28:01 2019. Wraps of works of art. Nature photos. NYC landmarks and street scenes. Scenes from movies set in NYC. |
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