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| (1506816) | |
Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 20:24:41 2019 According to the now-down stationreporter, the south Mezzanine at Classon Avenue likely led to Grand Avenue. Anyone here know whether this is true? Also, was there ever a staircase to the northeast corner of Classon and Lafayette?Thanks. Union Tpke |
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| (1506817) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Tue Mar 12 20:35:30 2019, in response to Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 20:24:41 2019. Wow if true that would have meant the south Classon exit and the Wash Av Clinton/Washington exit would have been about a block apart. Those stations are already close together esp for IND stations. |
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| (1506828) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 01:22:11 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Tue Mar 12 20:35:30 2019. The spacing is unusual now that you mention it. Clinton-Washington to Bedford-Nostrand is only slightly over the standard half mile. My guess is that it was to compete with the Franklin Av station on the Lex el, or maybe there were a few Pratt alumni working for the IND. |
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| (1506838) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:51:33 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Tue Mar 12 20:35:30 2019. There are some IND stations that are unusually close. 86 St and 81 St on CPW are only 5 blocks apart and 163 St and 168 St in Wash hts are just as close. |
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| (1506839) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 01:56:12 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 01:22:11 2019. Clinton Wash is my home station but can use both stations. From my obvservation Pratt students use Clinton Wash Sta.I think you're on to something about the lex El. The El would have crossed Lafayette at Grand Ave which is equidistant bet the two stations. |
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| (1506840) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 01:59:10 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:51:33 2019. True. 81st street(Museum of Nat History) and 86 street(Major street) is understandable. Wonder why they choose 163rd as a starting being so close to 168. |
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| (1506841) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 02:06:18 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 01:56:12 2019. I should have said DeKalb and Greene stations, those actually being on Grand Ave; but yes, that makes sense. And, from the perspective of the IND drawing away BMT passengers, it sends a message to put a subway entrance right underneath the el you want to tear down... |
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| (1506842) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 02:13:51 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 02:06:18 2019. And it even makes sense as to why they closed it as well. Once the el's gone the entrance lost it's function esp being so close to Clinton/Wash. |
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| (1506843) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by trains61 on Wed Mar 13 03:19:29 2019, in response to Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 20:24:41 2019. My home station. To my knowledge, there was never an appearance/evidence of a North East staircase. Also fare control is located in the center of the mezzanine, at Classon Ave. The western half of the mezzanine,during my years there were cordoned/fenced off. That half of the mezzanine would have been well short of Grand Ave anyway.The Lurker's Guild Classon Ave. GG |
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| (1506844) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 13 06:17:12 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by trains61 on Wed Mar 13 03:19:29 2019. Thanks. With fare control in the center, I was a bit skeptical that there would have been an exit to Grand. |
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| (1506906) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 16:44:28 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 01:59:10 2019. It may have been because 168 St to 155 would be too long so they needed a pseudo midpoint. |
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Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Mar 13 17:18:26 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:51:33 2019. The 81st St. CPW stop is actually centered on 80th St. It's called 81st only because there is no 79th or 80th St. there because of the museum. The 163rd St. stop is centered on 161st St., and doesn't even have an exit at 163rd St. |
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| (1506947) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 23:22:28 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by italianstallion on Wed Mar 13 17:18:26 2019. Naming is an approximate art. The IND constructed a Dyckman-200 St station even though there is no 200 St in Manhattan. |
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| (1506948) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 23:24:01 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 02:13:51 2019. Exactly. If the exit existed, it probably only lasted at most 13 years. How nice it would be to have a city government not afraid to spend on transit... |
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| (1506951) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 14 00:26:55 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by italianstallion on Wed Mar 13 17:18:26 2019. The 163rd St. stop is centered on 161st St., and doesn't even have an exit at 163rd St.If I was somebody new to the neighborhood, I would really hate that. When a subway station is named 163rd St, I expect an entrance at 163rd St. |
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| (1506964) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Mar 14 17:58:31 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 14 00:26:55 2019. True. I don't understand this one at all. I could see not using 161st, to avoid confusion with the Yankee Stadium stop. So call it 162nd St. |
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| (1506975) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 14 19:56:11 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 14 00:26:55 2019. W 4 St station doesn’t have an entrance/exit at W 4 St either. |
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| (1506993) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Mar 15 00:54:40 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 14 19:56:11 2019. That's true. Forgot about that one, since I know that station very well.Maybe the city/MTA should post signs at the intersections (not unlike PATH), which point to the correct entrances, if they're unwilling or unable to open entrances there. |
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| (1507000) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 07:11:10 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by 3-9 on Fri Mar 15 00:54:40 2019. There used to be entrances there. |
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| (1507002) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Mar 15 07:32:12 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 14 00:26:55 2019. I can attest for living in that neighborhood from as a young child growing up there until September 1966, there was an entrance-exit at 163rd Street and Saint Nicholas Avenue, each at the southwest and southeast corners.They were closed up many, many years ago, with the mezzanine blocked off by the metal fencing that now made the station centered around the 161st Street and 162nd Street entrances-exits. With it being recently redone, it has now been covered up with the MVM's, although you will have to look from the train platform towards the ceiling towards the northern end to see the closed off mezzanine up there. A little trivia here, as when the IND was planning the station there, one of the early layout diagrams had it called as "162nd Street". -William A. Padron [">-163->"] |
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| (1507022) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Mar 15 09:50:12 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 16:44:28 2019. 163rd is at the corner of Amsterdam Ave (with no actual exit to 163rd anymore, just FYI) it's more like 161st and Amsterdam with, I think, 1 exit to 162nd...the exit stairway configurations may have changed since they finished the EIS-based renovation a few months ago.The blocks between 163rd and 168th are pretty long... |
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| (1507023) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Mar 15 09:51:19 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 07:11:10 2019. Correct...it's a closed exit now. |
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| (1507024) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Mar 15 09:53:17 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by K. Trout on Wed Mar 13 23:22:28 2019. Yeah...it's weird....the IRT definitely didn't use 200th St. as an alternate name... |
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| (1507026) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Mar 15 10:01:38 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Mar 15 09:51:19 2019. Where was the exit/entrance at W4? On the west side of 6th ave? And was it a block north? Where was its access within the actual station?The only entrance I'm familiar with is on the east side at W3rd, downstairs to the narrow fare control area, ramps to up & downtown platforms, with another exit to the east of 6th ave on the other side of the fare control area. |
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| (1507035) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 10:35:10 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Mar 15 07:32:12 2019. Do you know what year it might have closed?Where can one find these early diagrams? Thanks so much! |
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| (1507036) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 10:35:51 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Express Rider on Fri Mar 15 10:01:38 2019. Here are the exit locations:- Both southern corners of Washington Place and Sixth Avenue (2) - Southeastern and northwestern corner of West Fourth Street and Sixth Avenue (2)[69] - Southwest corner of Greenwich Avenue and Sixth Avenue (1) |
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| (1507044) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Mar 15 13:49:05 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 14 00:26:55 2019. There also isn't really a 15th St entrance/exit 15th St-Prospect Park, nor is the station centered along it. The nearest exit to there is along the traffic circle at Prospect Park West and even that is the farthest stair from the platform. The booth is all the way over by 16th St. |
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| (1507051) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 14:23:59 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 07:11:10 2019. I have never seen any documentation that indicates there were ever any other exits/entrances than the present ones. There was a station agent’s booth on the east side of the lower mezzanine butI never saw any evidence of staircases or provisions for staircases there. |
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| (1507055) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Mar 15 14:38:13 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 13 06:17:12 2019. That (former) website should NOT be relied upon. |
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| (1507058) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 15:03:01 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 10:35:51 2019. NW corner of Waverly Pl. and Sixth Avenue, too. |
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| (1507062) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 15:34:38 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 14:23:59 2019. Alan Minor who has advocated for the reopening of closed entrances sent me a map he made of closed entrances, with these on his map. |
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| (1507063) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 15:34:59 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by TerrApin Station on Fri Mar 15 14:38:13 2019. Some things there are right, but others not. |
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| (1507070) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Fri Mar 15 16:09:10 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by italianstallion on Wed Mar 13 17:18:26 2019. Lafayette Av on the C has no entrances on Lafeyette closest entrance to it's namesake is a block away block away. |
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| (1507076) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Mar 15 17:01:36 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 15:03:01 2019. Comes right up next to the Waverly Diner. :) Have had many late night burgers, turkey clubs there. |
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| (1507077) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Mar 15 17:02:22 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Mar 15 10:35:51 2019. Thank you Union Tpke. for this info. |
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| (1507078) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 17:02:28 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Mar 15 07:32:12 2019. Apparently, the original name of the Bway/Nassau St station was also intended to be “Fulton St’ But was changed before the subway opened and is now called what was originally planned. The same is true for the notorious 76 St station which is referred to as "75 St” on some of the maps from the late 1930s showing the proposed IND extension. |
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| (1507081) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Mar 15 17:06:52 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 14 19:56:11 2019. At least the station is under W. 4, while 163rd never touches that street. |
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Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 17:07:53 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Mar 15 09:50:12 2019. Why would they be any longer than the blocks N/O 168 St which aren’t that long at all? |
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| (1507084) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 17:10:12 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Fri Mar 15 09:53:17 2019. That’s like the 210 St/Williamsbridge station on the 3 Av el. 210 St doesn’t intersect Webster Av but stops a short half block west of it. It was probably named that to eliminate confusion with the next station since the station is actually at Gun Hill Rd. |
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| (1507085) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Mar 15 17:15:16 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 15 17:07:53 2019. The avenue is on more of a diagonal. |
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| (1507091) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 17:53:08 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Express Rider on Fri Mar 15 17:01:36 2019. One of my two favorite Village diners! (The other one was Manatus, gone almost ten years now.) |
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Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by MTA T on Fri Mar 15 23:01:05 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Fri Mar 15 16:09:10 2019. It never did if I'm not mistaken. |
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Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by MTA T on Fri Mar 15 23:02:05 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 15:03:01 2019. That's still there |
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Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 16 14:23:38 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Ftgreeneg on Wed Mar 13 02:13:51 2019. Perhaps, it had been built to connect to the never-built Bedford Ave subway? |
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| (1507183) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Mar 16 16:42:07 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 16 14:23:38 2019. No. Provisions for that would be at Bedford/Nostrand. One of the stories I heard was that the reason the mezzanine at Nostrand on the A Line extends so far west (RR north) is to provide a means of passenger transfer to the Bedford Av subway. By the way of all the lines of the IND “second system” the Bedford Av subway seems to have the least amount of documentation. |
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| (1507210) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Sun Mar 17 00:28:22 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Broadway Buffer on Fri Mar 15 13:49:05 2019. True. There used to be two booths, one near the exit on the east side of Prospect Park West and the north end of the circle and that passageway to the exit on the east side and the other, I think, was all the way down at the Windsor Place exit. The current booth is between Windsor and 16th. It's been there for years, ever since the old IND built-in booth were replaced. I'm pretty sure the one at the north end got a modern replacement before being eliminated to save money.Prospect Park Southwest, on which there are two entrances just below the circle, was known at "15th Street" (and, south of the turn, "Coney Island Avenue" and, before that "Coney Island Road") until around 1915, the articles in the Brooklyn Eagle archives are correct. Perhaps the locals still called it 15th Street when the IND was built. A lot of the old timers still call the part of Prospect Park West between the circle and Green-Wood Cemetery "Ninth Avenue" even though the name was changed in 1895. |
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| (1507219) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 17 05:16:38 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by randyo on Sat Mar 16 16:42:07 2019. David Rogoff included the same explanation about Bedford Nostrand's mezzanine, in the detailed historic brochure* he wrote for the BMT Standards (2390-91-92) fantrip in October or November 1967.*about 15-18 single spaced typewritten (on a manual) pages, mimeographed [?] on skyblue paper. He used, as sources, some of his own subway construction histories done for the NY Div. bulletin. |
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| (1507408) | |
Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 18 18:23:07 2019, in response to Re: Classon Avenue Mezzanine and closed exit?, posted by Express Rider on Sun Mar 17 05:16:38 2019. Dave Rogoff was actually my source. |
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