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| Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 (1506635) | |
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| (1506635) | |
Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019 Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Corporation (1936-1940) New York City Board of Transportation / BMT Division (1940-1953) New York City Transit Authority / BMT Division (1953-1956) Rt. 13 14th Street-Fulton Street Express Service Period: September 23, 1936 to April 27, 1956 The No. 13 14th Street-Fulton Street Express ran from September 23, 1936 to April 27, 1956, just short of twenty years. The service ran between Lefferts Avenue (now Boulevard) in Queens and 8th Avenue in Manhattan. Trains ran over the 14th Street Line between 8th Avenue and Atlantic Avenue and the Fulton Street Line between Hinsdale Street and Lefferts Avenue in Queens. The service ran weekdays and Saturdays during rush hours, usually with four or five departures in each direction. Trains ran non-stop on the 14th Street Line between Lorimer Street and Myrtle Avenue. When service began certain platforms on the Fulton Street Line could not accommodate a full length train so they ran non-stop between Hinsdale Avenue and Hudson Street. Effective October 4, 1937 the platform extensions were complete and train began stopping at the bypassed stations. The equipment for this service had to be light enough to run on the original el structure between Hinsdale Avenue and Hudson Street yet had to be of metal construction to run in the 14th Street Subway. Five-section articulated units known as the “Multis” were assigned to this service. Ten of these cars, 7004-7013, were built by the Saint Louis Car Company. The remained fifteen, 7014-7028, were built by the Pullman Car Manufacturing Company. Occasionally the five production “Bluebirds”, 8001-8005, would be used as well. The last day of service was Friday, April 27, 1956. The final run was made by Multis 7009 and 7011. Sources: ERA New York Division Bulletins 1966 & 1971, articles by Mr. Bernard Linder “New York Subways; an illustrated history of New York City’s transit cars” (John Hopkins University Press / 1997) by Mr. Gene Sansone BMT Rapid Transit Lines / 1939 Map / World’s Fair Edition Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1506663) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 11 13:55:02 2019, in response to Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019. Thank you. Interesting that they invested money in extending Fulton platforms that were soon to be demolished...hardly the only case of investments being made in doomed lines.With the IND under construction- and much of it already open- by 1937, I'm sure that everyone knew that almost all of the Fulton structure didn't have long to live... |
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| (1506670) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 11 14:30:57 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 11 13:55:02 2019. Something similar happened on Myrtle when the Qs were assigned there. The gate cars (BUs) ran as 5 car trains and the end vestibules extended past the platform ends since they extreme end gates didn’t open. When the Qs came over, the maximum train length was 6 cars and all doors opened so the platforms had to be extended to accommodate the longer trains. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1506671) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Mar 11 14:39:43 2019, in response to Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019. IO believe that the 14/Fulton trains were signed 13 when operating towards Lefferts and 16 when operating towards 14/8 to avoid confusion with the Fulton el that ran to Park row which was 13 even though the only train to carry that number on Fulton was the Green Hornet. There is some documentation that the official number for the 14/Fulton was 17 but there is no indication that any of the trains actually carried that number. The R-11 had route signs for the 14/Fulton but I don't know if they were considered light enough to operate there. You answered a question I had about the Bluebird since there are photos of the prototype 8000 operating on Fulton west of Rockaway Av and the production cars operating on Canarsie. By the way, when the Multis were being scrapped, I came into possession of the controller and brake valve from 7011 although I neglected to record whether it was from the A or the A1 section. |
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| (1506678) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 11 15:27:30 2019, in response to Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019. I have a brochure marking the change in 1936 due to the new trains. |
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| (1506687) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:41:39 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 11 15:27:30 2019. Can you post it? |
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| (1506704) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 11 21:15:45 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Mar 11 13:55:02 2019. Back in the mid-1930's, the route east of Rockaway Ave (1936) had yet to be determined. Besides the current route under Pitkin Ave, there was another one running under Liberty Ave from Pennsylvania, via a diagonal route (under private property). The BMT was aware of this. |
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| (1506714) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:26:25 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:41:39 2019. When I have time. |
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| (1506715) | |
Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:34:16 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 11 16:41:39 2019. You ask, you shall receive:   |
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| (1506717) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:51:04 2019, in response to Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019. Do you know which months the ERA Bulletins were published? Also, if possible, could you provide the article titles? I am working on improving the 13 (BMT rapid transit service) article. Thanks once again for this great series! |
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| (1506718) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Mar 12 08:07:22 2019, in response to Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:34:16 2019. Oh nice!What a gem! Thanks so much for posting this!! :) |
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| (1506724) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 08:52:33 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Express Rider on Tue Mar 12 08:07:22 2019. You are welcome. I should really getting around to posting more images of my collection. |
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| (1506735) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 10:56:25 2019, in response to Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:34:16 2019. Here's a comparison with today's schedule for the A from Lefferts to 8th Ave. (Cut and paste into a spreadsheet)dep,A65,Ozone Park - Lefferts Blvd,07:33:00,07:44:00,07:52:30,08:01:00 dep,A64,111 St,07:34:30,07:45:30,07:54:00,08:02:30 dep,A63,104 St,07:36:00,07:47:00,07:55:30,08:04:00 dep,A61,Rockaway Blvd,07:37:30,07:48:30,07:57:00,08:05:30 dep,A60,88 St,07:39:00,07:50:00,07:58:30,08:07:00 dep,A59,80 St,07:41:00,07:52:00,08:00:30,08:09:00 dep,A57,Grant Av,07:42:00,07:53:00,08:01:30,08:10:00 arr,A55,Euclid Av,07:44:00,07:55:00,08:03:30,08:12:00 dep,A51,Broadway Jct,07:49:30,08:01:30,08:10:00,08:18:30 dep,A48,Utica Av,07:53:00,08:05:00,08:13:30,08:22:00 dep,A46,Nostrand Av,07:56:30,08:08:30,08:17:00,08:25:30 dep,A42,Hoyt - Schermerhorn Sts,08:02:30,08:14:30,08:23:00,08:31:30 dep,A41,Jay St - MetroTech,08:04:30,08:16:30,08:25:00,08:33:30 dep,A40,High St,08:06:30,08:18:30,08:27:00,08:35:30 dep,A38,Fulton St,08:10:30,08:22:30,08:31:00,08:39:30 dep,A36,Chambers St,08:12:30,08:24:30,08:33:00,08:41:30 dep,A34,Canal St,08:14:00,08:26:00,08:34:30,08:43:00 dep,A32,W 4 St,08:16:30,08:28:30,08:37:00,08:45:30 dep,A31,14 St,08:19:00,08:31:00,08:39:30,08:48:00 As can be seen the 1936 running time was 43 minutes, whereas today's is 46 or 47 minutes. The same number of trains is scheduled between Lefferts and 8th Ave during this period. Equally interesting is that the run that uses the same track: Lefferts to 80th/Hudson the 1936 running time was 5 minutes where as it's 8 minutes today. Here's the data for the PM rush hour. dep,A31,14 St,17:09:30,17:16:30,17:23:00,17:34:30,17:42:00 dep,A32,W 4 St,17:11:30,17:18:30,17:25:00,17:36:30,17:44:00 arr,A34,Canal St,,17:21:00,17:27:30,,17:46:30 dep,A34,Canal St,17:14:00,17:21:30,17:29:00,17:39:00,17:47:00 dep,A36,Chambers St,17:16:00,17:23:30,17:31:00,17:41:00,17:49:00 dep,A38,Fulton St,17:18:00,17:25:30,17:33:00,17:43:00,17:51:00 dep,A40,High St,17:21:30,17:29:00,17:36:30,17:46:30,17:54:30 dep,A41,Jay St - MetroTech,17:23:30,17:31:00,17:38:30,17:48:30,17:56:30 dep,A42,Hoyt - Schermerhorn Sts,17:25:30,17:33:00,17:40:30,17:50:30,17:58:30 dep,A46,Nostrand Av,17:30:30,17:38:00,17:45:30,17:55:30,18:03:30 dep,A48,Utica Av,17:33:00,17:40:30,17:48:00,17:58:00,18:06:00 dep,A51,Broadway Jct,17:37:00,17:44:30,17:52:00,18:02:00,18:10:00 arr,A55,Euclid Av,,,,18:07:00, dep,A55,Euclid Av,17:42:00,17:49:30,17:57:00,18:07:30,18:15:00 dep,A57,Grant Av,17:43:30,17:51:00,17:58:30,18:09:00,18:16:30 dep,A59,80 St,17:45:00,17:52:30,18:00:00,18:10:30,18:18:00 dep,A60,88 St,17:46:30,17:54:00,18:01:30,18:12:00,18:19:30 dep,A61,Rockaway Blvd,17:48:00,17:55:30,18:03:00,18:13:30,18:21:00 arr,A63,104 St,17:50:00,17:57:30,18:05:00,18:15:30,18:23:00 dep,A63,104 St,17:51:30,17:59:00,18:07:00,18:17:00,18:25:00 dep,A64,111 St,17:53:30,18:01:00,18:09:00,18:19:00,18:27:00 dep,A65,Ozone Park - Lefferts Blvd,17:55:00,18:02:30,18:10:30,18:20:30,18:28:30 None of these runs equals the 42 minutes of 1936. Here's the data for the 14th St Line portion of the route. arr,L22,Broadway Jct,,,08:00:30,,,08:13:30,, dep,L22,Broadway Jct,07:53:30,07:56:30,08:02:30,08:05:30,08:08:30,08:14:30,08:17:30,08:20:30 dep,L21,Bushwick Av - Aberdeen St,07:54:30,07:57:30,08:03:30,08:06:30,08:09:30,08:15:30,08:18:30,08:21:30 dep,L20,Wilson Av,07:56:00,07:59:00,08:05:00,08:08:00,08:11:00,08:17:00,08:20:00,08:23:00 dep,L19,Halsey St,07:58:30,08:01:30,08:07:30,08:10:30,08:13:30,08:19:30,08:22:30,08:25:30 dep,L17,Myrtle - Wyckoff Avs,08:00:00,08:03:00,08:09:00,08:12:00,08:15:00,08:21:00,08:24:00,08:27:00 dep,L16,DeKalb Av,08:02:00,08:05:00,08:11:00,08:14:00,08:17:00,08:23:00,08:26:00,08:29:00 dep,L15,Jefferson St,08:03:00,08:06:00,08:12:00,08:15:00,08:18:00,08:24:00,08:27:00,08:30:00 dep,L14,Morgan Av,08:05:30,08:08:30,08:14:30,08:17:30,08:20:30,08:26:30,08:29:30,08:32:30 dep,L13,Montrose Av,08:07:30,08:10:30,08:16:30,08:19:30,08:22:30,08:28:30,08:31:30,08:34:30 dep,L12,Grand St,08:08:30,08:11:30,08:17:30,08:20:30,08:23:30,08:29:30,08:32:30,08:35:30 dep,L11,Graham Av,08:09:30,08:12:30,08:18:30,08:21:30,08:24:30,08:30:30,08:33:30,08:36:30 dep,L10,Lorimer St,08:11:00,08:14:00,08:20:00,08:23:00,08:26:00,08:32:00,08:35:00,08:38:00 dep,L08,Bedford Av,08:13:00,08:16:00,08:22:00,08:25:00,08:28:00,08:34:00,08:37:00,08:40:00 dep,L06,1 Av,08:17:00,08:20:00,08:26:00,08:29:00,08:32:00,08:38:00,08:41:00,08:44:00 dep,L05,3 Av,08:18:00,08:21:00,08:27:00,08:30:00,08:33:00,08:39:00,08:42:00,08:45:00 dep,L03,Union Sq - 14 St,08:19:30,08:22:30,08:28:30,08:31:30,08:34:30,08:40:30,08:43:30,08:46:30 dep,L02,6 Av,08:21:00,08:24:00,08:30:00,08:33:00,08:36:00,08:42:00,08:45:00,08:48:00 dep,L01,8 Av,08:22:00,08:25:00,08:31:00,08:34:00,08:37:00,08:43:00,08:46:00,08:49:00 and dep,L01,8 Av,17:02:30,17:06:30,17:10:30,17:14:30,17:18:30,17:22:30,17:26:30,17:30:00,17:33:30,17:37:00,17:40:30 dep,L02,6 Av,17:04:00,17:08:00,17:12:00,17:16:00,17:20:00,17:24:00,17:28:00,17:31:30,17:35:00,17:38:30,17:42:00 dep,L03,Union Sq - 14 St,17:06:00,17:10:00,17:14:00,17:18:00,17:22:00,17:26:00,17:30:00,17:33:30,17:37:00,17:40:30,17:44:00 dep,L05,3 Av,17:07:00,17:11:00,17:15:00,17:19:00,17:23:00,17:27:00,17:31:00,17:34:30,17:38:00,17:41:30,17:45:00 dep,L06,1 Av,17:08:00,17:12:00,17:16:00,17:20:00,17:24:00,17:28:00,17:32:00,17:35:30,17:39:00,17:42:30,17:46:00 dep,L08,Bedford Av,17:12:00,17:16:00,17:20:00,17:24:00,17:28:00,17:32:00,17:36:00,17:39:30,17:43:00,17:46:30,17:50:00 dep,L10,Lorimer St,17:14:00,17:18:00,17:22:00,17:26:00,17:30:00,17:34:00,17:38:00,17:41:30,17:45:00,17:48:30,17:52:00 dep,L11,Graham Av,17:15:00,17:19:00,17:23:00,17:27:00,17:31:00,17:35:00,17:39:00,17:42:30,17:46:00,17:49:30,17:53:00 dep,L12,Grand St,17:16:30,17:20:30,17:24:30,17:28:30,17:32:30,17:36:30,17:40:30,17:44:00,17:47:30,17:51:00,17:54:30 dep,L13,Montrose Av,17:17:30,17:21:30,17:25:30,17:29:30,17:33:30,17:37:30,17:41:30,17:45:00,17:48:30,17:52:00,17:55:30 dep,L14,Morgan Av,17:19:30,17:23:30,17:27:30,17:31:30,17:35:30,17:39:30,17:43:30,17:47:00,17:50:30,17:54:00,17:57:30 dep,L15,Jefferson St,17:21:30,17:25:30,17:29:30,17:33:30,17:37:30,17:41:30,17:45:30,17:49:00,17:52:30,17:56:00,17:59:30 dep,L16,DeKalb Av,17:23:00,17:27:00,17:31:00,17:35:00,17:39:00,17:43:00,17:47:00,17:50:30,17:54:00,17:57:30,18:01:00 dep,L17,Myrtle - Wyckoff Avs,17:24:30,17:28:30,17:32:30,17:36:30,17:40:30,17:44:30,17:48:30,17:52:00,17:55:30,17:59:00,18:02:30 dep,L19,Halsey St,17:26:00,17:30:00,17:34:00,17:38:00,17:42:00,17:46:00,17:50:00,17:53:30,17:57:00,18:00:30,18:04:00 dep,L20,Wilson Av,17:28:30,17:32:30,17:36:30,17:40:30,17:44:30,17:48:30,17:52:30,17:56:00,17:59:30,18:03:00,18:06:30 dep,L21,Bushwick Av - Aberdeen St,17:30:00,17:34:00,17:38:00,17:42:00,17:46:00,17:50:00,17:54:00,17:57:30,18:01:00,18:04:30,18:08:00 dep,L22,Broadway Jct,17:31:00,17:35:00,17:39:00,17:43:00,17:47:00,17:51:00,17:55:00,17:58:30,18:02:00,18:05:30,18:09:00 |
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| (1506737) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Mar 12 11:21:44 2019, in response to Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019. On the illuminated "Next Train Out" signs at 14th St./8th Ave. station of the Canarsie line, if you looked close you could see the old blacked-out destinations Rockaway Parkway or Lefferts Blvd. at least until the 1970's. I'm not sure when these signs were taken down. |
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| (1506744) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 12 11:37:58 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 10:56:25 2019. So, you are comparing a 43-minute runtime for a no-longer-existent route from Lefferts to 8th Ave. via the L, to the current 46-minute A-train run from Lefferts to 8th Ave, via a completely different, and longer, route? |
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| (1506749) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 12 12:48:02 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 12 11:37:58 2019. PWN3D! |
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| (1506750) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Mar 12 12:51:25 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 11 21:15:45 2019. Interesting. No Liberty Av station in that case, next stop after Broadway-East New York would have been Van Siclen/Liberty, I guess. Definitely would have saved some time. |
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| (1506751) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Mar 12 12:52:49 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 12 12:48:02 2019. +700 |
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| (1506755) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 13:47:04 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 12 11:37:58 2019. I'm comparing service between two locations after 83 years improvement. It's not often that reliable schedules are available to make such a comparison. I thank Mr. U. Turnpike for providing the documentary evidence from 1936.Your criticism regarding the route change between 1936 and 2019 should be directed at the agency that introduced that change as an improvement. They spent a good deal of 1956 dollars to increase the running time for the new route and eliminated the old one. I also included sufficient information for the reader to perform a detailed station-by-station analysis. I also noted that it took 5 minutes to go between Lefferts and 80th St in 1936, whereas it takes 8 minutes today. That's a comparison over a common route, making the same stops. Management is looking to decrease running time as per recent MTA press releases. It would appear that this track section bears investigation as to why it now takes 60% more time to traverse. The current NYCT honcho noted every second counts. Here's 180 of them. This track section does not appear in their most recent press release. |
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| (1506758) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 12 14:11:04 2019, in response to Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:34:16 2019. Wonderful!!Thank You. |
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| (1506762) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 12 14:24:09 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 13:47:04 2019. BTW, the 43-minute run only lasted a short time. Once the platforms were extended and the skipped stops were served, the run probably became closer to or exceeded 46 minutes. |
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| (1506775) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 14:59:59 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 08:52:33 2019. Yes, you have a nice piece of BMT history there. The BMT showed off their "new' Multis for what- only 4 trains during each rush hour? Given the number of Multis built, I thought they ran more 14 St-Fulton trains than four. I wonder if they had ever considered a skip-stop between B'way Jct and Lorimer. |
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| (1506776) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 15:05:02 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Mar 12 12:51:25 2019. Not to mention the extra money needed to underpin the Pitkin Ave segment of the Fulton St el! |
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| (1506780) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 12 15:18:58 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 14:59:59 2019. The R-110Bs had a gray K for proposed Canarsie Skip-Stop. |
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| (1506786) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 12 16:32:25 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 14:59:59 2019. Although there were only 4 specific 14/Fulton intervals, the remainder of the Multis were used for regular 14/Canarsie service. It’s interesting that the running time between Myrtle and 8 Av is 18 min considering that when I worked the 14 St Line with both steels and R-9s the running time was only 2 min more at 20 min and that was all local as opposed to the 14/Fultons which ran express. |
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| (1506788) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 12 16:39:00 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 13:47:04 2019. Also take into consideration that the Multis had a higher acceleration/deceleration rate than even the R-10s which provided the service after 1956. It seems that modern railcar designers have decided that acceleration rates as used on cars of that era like PCC streetcars and Multis had too high a “jerk rate” for passengers’ comfort which also explains why trips on the Newark City Subway (Light Rail) take longer with the newest LRVs that they did with the PCCs they replaced. |
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| (1506790) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 16:52:28 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by randyo on Tue Mar 12 16:32:25 2019. It still seems kind of stupid to build 25 Multis for only 4 trains. Coupling 2 units to make a train still gives you 12 train sets, plus one for a spare. |
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| (1506792) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Mar 12 16:58:30 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 06:51:04 2019. Union: The ERA New York Division Bulletin has been published continuously since 1958. There are over 600 issues so far so I can't provide you with a full list. Material for this weeks posting came from the following articles by Bernard LInder: BMT Service History 1924-1966 / June, August, October, December 1966 BRT Service History / February, April, May 1971. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1506798) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 12 17:38:08 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Mar 12 12:51:25 2019. There probably would have been a station but it would likely be called Pennsylvania Ave which is where the present Liberty Av station is located. As I mentioned, there was another older proposed route continuing straight under Fulton St which would have meant that the Jamaica Line structure would have had to be underpinned. |
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| (1506799) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by alantrain on Tue Mar 12 17:39:24 2019, in response to Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Mar 11 07:09:10 2019. I lived near the new lots bmt station and got to ride the multis many times. They were in regular service to Canarsie every day |
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| (1506803) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 18:12:59 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 12 15:18:58 2019. They wanted to use that K letter everywhere! |
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| (1506804) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 18:21:33 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by randyo on Tue Mar 12 16:39:00 2019. It seems that modern railcar designers have decided that acceleration rates as used on cars of that era like PCC streetcars and Multis had too high a “jerk rate” for passengers’ comfort which also explains why trips on the Newark City Subway (Light Rail) take longer with the newest LRVs that they did with the PCCs they replaced.Let me provide an alternate explanation regarding the subway cars. The only times when car weight affect power consumption are when going uphill and during acceleration. The amount of force required to accelerate a mass is given by F = m * a, where F is the force required, m is the body's mass and a is the acceleration. This is typically the biggest power demand for subway service. Today's cars are approximately 35% heavier per linear foot than the Green Hornets. Sorry, I did not the Multi specs available. The Green Hornet acceleration was 4 mph/sec vs. 2.5 mph/sec on the NTT's. So, they roughly have the same power draw during acceleration. If the NTT's had the Green Hornet's acceleration, it would require a power distribution network to supply roughly 35% more power. |
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| (1506809) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Tue Mar 12 19:13:10 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Mar 12 16:58:30 2019. I was only asking for the specific issues you cited, which you did. Thanks. |
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| (1506812) | |
Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 19:53:18 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Train of the Week No. 9, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 12 17:38:08 2019. My personal favorite were the express tracks running from Broadway (Jct)- East NY, Jamaica Ave, Ridgewood Ave, to Rockaway Blvd, to the LIRR or whatever! |
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| (1506826) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:17:51 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Elkeeper on Tue Mar 12 16:52:28 2019. At the time the first order of the Multis was placed, the plans for the entire IND Fulton St subway had not been finalized so it’s possible the BMT might have planned to use them on the Fulton el to downtown Bkln. With the opening of the IND to Rockaway Ave in 1936, the handwriting was on the wall so the BMT opted to use them for the new 14/Fulton service instead. |
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| (1506829) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:23:33 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 12 18:21:33 2019. If I recall from what I read, the Multis had the same acceleration/deceleration rates as the Green Hornet and they were so close in performance that the BMT actually considered ordering H drawheads for the Hornet and running it in trains with production Multis. However, the point I was trying to make was that power demand wasn’t the consideration for reducing the acceleration/deceleration rates on the NTTs and LRVs but rather making the ride more comfortable for passengers. |
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| (1506833) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:38:48 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 18:12:59 2019. Well, the K did originate on the BMT Eastern. Since you mentioned it, I believe that’s the reason that K wasn’t used for the J Line skip stop service and the Z was used instead. The TA wanted the K for a skip stop service on the 14 St Line. |
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| (1506834) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:39:44 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 18:12:59 2019. Well, the K did originate on the BMT Eastern. Since you mentioned it, I believe that’s the reason that K wasn’t used for the J Line skip stop service and the Z was used instead. The TA wanted the K for a skip stop service on the 14 St Line. |
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| (1506835) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:41:15 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 12 18:12:59 2019. Well, the K did originate on the BMT Eastern. Since you mentioned it, I believe that’s the reason that K wasn’t used for the J Line skip stop service and the Z was used instead. The TA wanted the K for a skip stop service on the 14 St Line. |
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| (1508827) | |
Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.. |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Mar 30 16:19:03 2019, in response to Re: Special Through Service In Rush Hours Between Lefferts Ave., Fulton St. Line and 8th Ave., 14th St.., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 13 01:41:15 2019. Hi,It is hard to read the designation #, it looks like 16 (which was the current L line designation) going to 8th Ave. from Lefferts, and 13 going to Lefferts from 8th Ave. |
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