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| (1494755) | |
PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Dec 5 19:20:48 2018 PATH has announced that it will close the WTC station on 45 weekends so that it can do repair work on the tubes between Exchange Place and WTC.The start date is in January. Weekends that contain holidays will be excluded. This will take them into the later part of 2020 before completion (I did not check a calendar on this so for now I will take theeir assessment). Newark-WTC trains will terminate at Exchange Place where passengers can transfer to free ferry service to Manhattan. JSQ-33 service will see an increase in service. |
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| (1494756) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 5 19:32:07 2018, in response to PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 5 19:20:48 2018. The best part of this is free Ferry service!!!I would imagine they would use NY Waterway boats, that operation is a ripoff so riding one for free would be a huge steal. |
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| (1494759) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 19:45:11 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 5 19:32:07 2018. On weekends it's not quite a ripoff, $6 from Hoboken NJT.If PATH still gave a crap about customers, the service pattern would instead be: 1: NWK-33rd [red/yellow markers] 2: HOB-33rd [blue] 3: HOB-EXP with 4 car trains [green] They either don't want to have to cut NWK branch trains to 7 cars for the weekend or are actually concerned about the crowding at Christopher St. Never mind the fact that the only reason WTC station is so crowded is that the NWK train goes there, not because people actually wanted to go downtown on a weekend... |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1494778) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Dec 5 20:31:13 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 19:45:11 2018. That's true. Whenever I wanted to go to Newark I'd go to WTC for a one seat ride. Also, the 33rd st line is slow. |
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| (1494781) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 5 20:38:28 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 19:45:11 2018. crowding at Christopher StHow would your suggested pattern result in crowding at Christopher Street? From the 2/3 it's closer to get on at 14th (with an underground passage). From the A/C/D/E/F it's closer to 9th street. Only from the 1 is it a break-even between Christopher and 14th. Basically, if there were a 33rd to NWK service, all the PATH stations in Manhattan would absorb some of the added traffic. |
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| (1494783) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Dec 5 21:11:04 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 5 19:32:07 2018. Is the ferry actually free or free-with-proof-of-PATH-fare, which generally renders it unsuitable for people not originating in New Jersey? |
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| (1494787) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 5 21:18:55 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Dec 5 19:32:07 2018. This sounds like the free 2-ride Metrocards they were handing out at WTC this summer. Not so good if you originate in Manhattan. Those 2-ride Metrocards were no good for a subsequent bus transfer (I tried). But I did take the subway to Brooklyn and back, gratis to PATH |
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| (1494797) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 23:41:38 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 5 20:38:28 2018. Straight up walking to the destination from Christopher St, for one... |
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| (1494798) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Dec 6 00:13:34 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 19:45:11 2018. From a previous message:"Never mind the fact that the only reason WTC station is so crowded is that the NWK train goes there, not because people actually wanted to go downtown on a weekend... " Well, I guess no more shopping at the Newport Mall - which was a really decent place to get to from the World Trade Center, even on the weekends. There were plenty, and I mean plenty of folks both getting on and off the PATH trains there, even on the weekends. The two-trip Metro-Cards a few weeks back were interesting, as well using the light rail line one weekend when there was a service issue. Oh, well, Mike |
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| (1494799) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 6 01:19:15 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 23:41:38 2018. Only if a lot of NJ people are in Greenwich Village. |
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| (1494800) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 6 01:23:05 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Nilet on Wed Dec 5 21:11:04 2018. I think it's just free. It's not like PATH gives out receipts or passes or anything that can be used as proof. |
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| (1494803) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 01:42:04 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 23:41:38 2018. But people in the far West Village, whose closest station is Christopher, and who want to get to NWK, will already take PATH to Journal Square and change for the NWK train there.I really don't see how you proposal increases Christopher Street traffic by much. Are you aware how out of the way that station really is? From almost all Manhattan (or NYC) locations, it is harder to get to Christopher Street than to another PATH station. The exception is a small, irregular portion of the far West Village. |
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| (1494805) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 02:00:15 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 6 01:23:05 2018. When they ran bus service from WTC to replace the trains to 33rd, they had some system of tickets or vouchers requiring proof of PATH payment to get on the bus. Which, of course, meant you couldn't take the bus down from 33rd unless you were returning to New Jersey having first paid a PATH fare to get into New York. |
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| (1494807) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Dec 6 02:49:48 2018, in response to PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 5 19:20:48 2018. From a previous message:"Newark-WTC trains will terminate at Exchange Place where passengers can transfer to free ferry service to Manhattan." How to Newark-WTc trains terminate at Exchange Place? I am looking at my "Tracks Of The Subway" book by Peter D. and it does not show an "easy way" to do it, unless: a) the diagram is old and a few cross-over switches or lay-up tracks have been added, or b) those trains "wrong rail" somewhere to complete the journey. Just wondering. Mike |
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| (1494809) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 02:58:43 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 19:45:11 2018. I've always wondered if NJ Transit and PATH had some kind of anti competition type clause as to why even with GO's like this PATH refuse to have direct service from NWK-33rd. |
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| (1494810) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 03:20:21 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 01:42:04 2018. I'm basing it on the post-9/11 commute patterns whereby PATH had to close Christopher St during the AM rush due to severe overcrowding (and I think 9th as well, not sure). This weekend closure is essentially repeating that pattern. |
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| (1494813) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 03:56:05 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 02:58:43 2018. Except that PATH does offer competing service from NWK - 33rd.Unless someone wants to argue that changing at Journal Square is illegal, à la the infamous Fordham thread(s). |
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| (1494816) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 6 04:51:11 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Michael549 on Thu Dec 6 02:49:48 2018. Isn't there a crossover of sorts just west of the station? |
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| (1494819) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Dec 6 06:24:05 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Nilet on Wed Dec 5 21:11:04 2018. Even if it's the latter, $2.75 to ride a ferry across the Hudson is a good deal you don't usually get |
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| (1494820) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 07:17:36 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 03:56:05 2018. Yes and No I guess it's kind of like the difference between taking Amtrak or NJ Transit bet NY Penn-Trenton. One is more expensive and faster the other is cheaper and slower.My question is if theres an official policy that PATH can't offer this service or is it an operational or logistical issue? Regular service I can understand not having that direct service but it seems even with GO's (or what ever PATH equivalent term is) PATH doesn't provide 33rd-Newark Service. |
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| (1494821) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 07:22:02 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 07:17:36 2018. I'm thinking maybe to provide NWK-33rd service just takes more trains and they don't want to spend the money. |
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| (1494823) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 07:50:46 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by 3-9 on Thu Dec 6 04:51:11 2018. Yes. They rebuilt all that in the year it was out of service after 9/11 |
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| (1494824) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 07:54:38 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 03:20:21 2018. That was when people had to commute to lower Manhattan. Not many do on weekends.They won't run the NWK train uptown because they are too cheap to run the NWK line any more often than 20 minutes, and are too lazy to cut consists to 7 cars. PATH also does not give a flying shit about off-peak passengers. |
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| (1494825) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 07:55:54 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 02:58:43 2018. For a one-seat ride, yes, except for severe circumstances after 9/11. |
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| (1494826) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 07:58:21 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 07:22:02 2018. They are incessantly doing engineering work west of JSQ, single track one portion of it or another. Harrison station is only half done. They are always messing around with track on the bridge. Anything more than 20 minute service is difficult, and even that often produces a 10 minute delay. |
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| (1494827) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 07:59:27 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Dec 6 06:24:05 2018. If you are headed only to lower Manhattan. It is slow as hell and leaves you at the Hudson River in the WFC area. |
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| (1494832) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 6 08:24:55 2018, in response to PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Allan on Wed Dec 5 19:20:48 2018. Article on Closures-PATH |
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| (1494836) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 6 08:33:08 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Michael549 on Thu Dec 6 02:49:48 2018. Here's a more recent map (from nycsubway.org): As you can see, trains from Grove St can relay on either track at Exchange Place, using what was originally a dead end pocket track at Exchange Place, but was connected to the through tracks during the post 9-11 reconstruction. |
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| (1494841) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 08:55:53 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 6 08:33:08 2018. I wonder if those tracks that simply end near the portal were once Pennsy tracks that ran to their Exchange Place terminal ? |
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| (1494842) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Dec 6 08:56:59 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 08:55:53 2018. Maybe. They (the two tracks that aren't on H & M/PATH property) have catenary still. |
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| (1494845) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 09:03:19 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 07:22:02 2018. Well in the case for this GO if they wanted to the Exchange PL trains just went to Hob that those extras could go to the 33rd-Newark trains. |
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| (1494847) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Dec 6 09:08:00 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 09:03:19 2018. Trains from 33rd don't go to Newark. Ever. Not even in the roundabout run at night that runs JSQ-HOB-33rd. And weekends I think the only service ran from WTC is WTC-NWK. For service to HOB or Newport, you need to transfer at Grove St. and catch the roundabout on the opposite track. |
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| (1494848) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 09:09:55 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Dec 6 09:08:00 2018. Well, they did in late 2001 and early 2002. |
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| (1494855) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 10:02:40 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Dec 6 09:08:00 2018. I know that. Physically 33rd St trains CAN go to Nwk but they don't. Just wanted to know what the reason was. |
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| (1494856) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 10:17:45 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 09:09:55 2018. Let's put it this way. Are there ever NWK-33rd trains on a weekday except when the WTC station is disabled (which I suspect it never is, voluntarily, on a weekday). |
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| (1494860) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 11:12:32 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 10:17:45 2018. As I said, yes, in the WTC outage after 9/11. It was timed for 34 min minutes. When I took it, it did the run in 31 minutes, RFW all the way. On weekends, it ran NWK-HOB instead. |
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| (1494861) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 11:13:20 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by FtgreeneG on Thu Dec 6 10:02:40 2018. PATH is a creature of habit and is content to run the same 2 and 4 route system they ran in the 1950's. |
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| (1494862) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 11:22:53 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 11:12:32 2018. So it looks like your answer to my question is actually no, if the only time it happened is when the WTC station was involuntarily disabled. |
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| (1494863) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 11:49:27 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 11:22:53 2018. Your question was did it ever happen. Yes it did. |
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| (1494872) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 12:39:50 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 11:49:27 2018. No my question was whether it ever happened on a weekday when the WTC station was not disabled. And it seems the answer is no. |
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| (1494909) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Allan on Thu Dec 6 13:39:27 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 6 02:00:15 2018. I was able to take the bus from 33rd down to WTC just by showing my Smartlink card (and I was just using the bus to down to the WTC area (no intention to go to NJ and I had not come from NJ). |
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| (1494960) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu Dec 6 17:53:37 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 07:59:27 2018. Some time ago on this forum there was a strong debate when it comes to major subway tunnel repair work due to Hurricane Sandy. There were two major arguments:a) Is it better to simply close the subway tunnel to passenger service for the entire time and complete the extensive repair work as quickly as possible - even if it takes several weeks or months of time to complete the work. or b) It is better to simply close the subway tunnel to passenger service during the lower ridership periods (such as weekends or midnight hour periods) to complete the extensive repair work - even if it takes several weeks or months of time to complete the work. It appears that this kind of a debate it still going on when one compares the PATH train tunnel closure, with the L-train 14th Street Tunnel closure. Mike |
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| (1494966) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:22:23 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Dec 6 09:08:00 2018. Although I never recall any Nwk to 33 St service operating, in the 1950s, the Hagstrom subway maps showed the Hudson Tubes and the 33 St branch had in parenthesis (to Newark). |
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| (1494988) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Thu Dec 6 19:54:11 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Dec 5 19:45:11 2018. There's almost always a 33rd st train waiting across the platform @ JSQ. If people are traveling to the WTC it more likely than not is becuase they want to go downtown (or more likely, Brooklyn). |
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| (1494992) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 19:59:40 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by shiznit1987 on Thu Dec 6 19:54:11 2018. There's almost always a 33rd st train waiting across the platform @ JSQ.Yeah, but does it leave right away or is there a long wait? I remember a long wait, but that was many years ago. |
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| (1494995) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 20:06:42 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by randyo on Thu Dec 6 18:22:23 2018. Back then H&M had a special fleet for the NWK-HT line, with 50% of the cars owned by PRR. They were a Stillwell designed car with porthole end windows. Extra fare was charged on board west of JSQ. They were no turnstiles at Penn Station. |
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| (1494996) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 6 20:07:56 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by shiznit1987 on Thu Dec 6 19:54:11 2018. They often run at incompatible intervals, i.e. 15 and 20 minutes. See the schedule. |
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| (1494998) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 20:10:07 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by shiznit1987 on Thu Dec 6 19:54:11 2018. The uneven intervals *and* having to bounce through HOB make that line suck. If WTC station is closed, better to run them as HOB-33rd and NWK-33rd trains with a shuttle for EXP (or just send people to HBLR). |
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| (1494999) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 6 20:13:25 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 6 20:10:07 2018. Better, but more expensive. That's probably the reason. |
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| (1495005) | |
Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 6 21:18:26 2018, in response to Re: PATH's WTC station to close for 45 weekends, posted by Michael549 on Thu Dec 6 17:53:37 2018. PATH wasting money again. Why couldn't they do all this Sandy work before they installed PTC? |
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