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| Why New Yorkers Insisted On A "Worse" Subway Map (1492394) | |
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| (1492394) | |
Why New Yorkers Insisted On A "Worse" Subway Map |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Nov 10 04:06:16 2018 |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 10 09:23:38 2018, in response to Why New Yorkers Insisted On A "Worse" Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Nov 10 04:06:16 2018. I never liked that Vignelli map because it was merely a diagram without regard to geography. People "underground" do need to get above ground. It was fine for civil engineers, not for the lay person.The brown for water may have been accurate given pollution conditions in the 1960's. On the current map, they should put sharp turns exactly where they are, not the generalist, in-precise mess the J and L lines are in Brooklyn. |
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| (1492427) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by mack c-49 on Sat Nov 10 14:42:19 2018, in response to Why New Yorkers Insisted On A "Worse" Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Nov 10 04:06:16 2018. I learned my way around the trains of NYC from the pre-Vignelli maps of the late 50s which showed the IRT in black, the BMT in green and the IND in red. (Subconsciously I still think of the lines in those colors.) Those maps were more diagrammatic than geographic but they were clear and easy to read. True, the system is more complex now in some ways than it was then, but I think both the literal and representative mapping philosophies have advantages. Perhaps NY Subway should have maps in both styles! No doubt the Vignelli map was a work of art as well as being utilitarian. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 10 14:52:49 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by mack c-49 on Sat Nov 10 14:42:19 2018. I think the system is simpler now. While we gained Chrystie connection, 63rd Street, Archer, and SAS, Nassau Loop and Southern Division - Nassau St service is gone. No Brighton-Tunnel service. No Bway Bklyn local off the Canarsie line. No 3rd Ave el, no Myrtle ave el, no culver shuttle. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Nov 10 15:35:58 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 10 14:52:49 2018. No Crosstown-Queens Blvd Local.No (AA). No round robin Rockaways shuttle. Both concourse trains go to 6th ave and both upper west side trains go to 8th ave. Rush hour-midday-weekend service patterns have all been getting more and more similar. |
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| (1492438) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Nov 10 16:45:53 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by mack c-49 on Sat Nov 10 14:42:19 2018. Most of the 1950s Hagstrom maps showed the BMT in yellow, not green. |
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| (1492441) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 10 17:15:01 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Sat Nov 10 16:45:53 2018. And the IRT in blue. But the official NYCTA maps used prior to Chrystie St. used the colors mack c-49 said. |
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| (1492444) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 10 17:29:35 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by mack c-49 on Sat Nov 10 14:42:19 2018. Other maps may distort distances, but the Vignelli map was the only one to reverse the direction between some stations. In particular, the 50th St. station on the 1 line was shown west of the 50th St. station on the AA, CC and E. That was too much for many New Yorkers. |
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| (1492449) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 10 18:19:47 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Nov 10 15:35:58 2018. True..No rush hour specials operated. Pq |
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| (1492466) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Nov 10 22:51:54 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Edwards! on Sat Nov 10 18:19:47 2018. Yep. When I did a "ride all the lines" railfan trip in August 1976, my main concern was getting on the 3 rush-hour only lines (CC, K, QB) before the rush hour ended. I got the K and QB in pretty quickly (I started around 7:20 AM, but it was getting toward 9:30, and I hadn't gotten the CC yet. I was on the "Central Park Dash" on either an A and a D, and luckily around 110th or so, we passed a CC. I should have gotten off at 125th and made the across-the-platform transfer, but I figured, my train doesn't stop at 135th and the CC does, so that will give me more time. So I get off at 145th, and realize that the CC is downstairs at that point (so I guess I was on the A). I did get the CC in plenty of time and rode to Yankee Stadium where I transferred to the 4. If I ever do such I ride again (and I plan to when/if I ever get back to NYC), I won't have to worry about that again (the only real rush-hours only route is the Z, but I consider that the same as the J, so I will take whichever one and count it. This time I will ride the shuttles, which I didn't do the last time. Will start and end at Sutphin/Archer (E outbound, J (or Z) inbound. Also, this time, will ride every line once and once only (in 1976, I ended up riding a few lines twice, but then again, I threw the plan together quickly (starting at either Sterling St (IRT 3,4), or Prospect Park (D, M, QB), then at the last minute, my mother needed me to go somewhere with her in the morning before I started, which was near Franklin on the A (A was local 24/7 in Brooklyn back then), so I had to put a new plan together on the fly. In 1976, I did the whole thing on one fare (luckily, I was able to find a restroom midway through at Herald Square within fare control, think I was even able to get something to eat. This next time, with the existence of Metrocard, I will leave the system for a lunch break at Stillwell (Nathan's of course!) :). (Arrive on Q, leave on D, so I can pass by my alma mater, John Dewey HS, which unfortunately is a shadow of itself from when I graduated in 1975. :(When/if I do this, of course will be documented here! |
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| (1492472) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Sun Nov 11 01:04:36 2018, in response to Why New Yorkers Insisted On A "Worse" Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Nov 10 04:06:16 2018. Ehh I disagree that map is worse than the ones we now use. IMO its too bulky esp in manhattan with the multiple trunks lines. It just looks like its too much to take in, bulky lines everywhere. I wouldn't even know where to start if I was a tourist. Just my opinion. |
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| (1492473) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 11 03:48:10 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by FtgreeneG on Sun Nov 11 01:04:36 2018. the current map confuses people, especially tourists.Each line should have it's own line and color assignment. |
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| (1492475) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 11 07:41:35 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 10 09:23:38 2018. "There's no escape from the cartographic paradox: to present a useful and truthful picture, an accurate map must tell white lies" (Mark Monmonier).That being said, 50th/7th should never, ever appear west of 50th/8th on a rider's map! The relative density of the CBD / Downtown area of a given city vs. the relative spaciousness of the outskirts makes perfect geographical accuracy almost always impractical. The editors just have to strike a balance. My main pet peeve with the current map is that there are opportunities to emphasize bus routes that can lessen the need to use the subway (e.g. the Q35 runs half hourly all night between Flatbush Ave 2/5 and Rockaway Park A/S). That should be a line drawn on the map as there is plenty of room for such a line to exist. Obviously not every bus line can be shown, but significant ones to know about like that one can be useful, especially in "out-there" areas where there is no conflict with other features on the map. |
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| (1492476) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 11 07:42:59 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 11 07:41:35 2018. Correction:That being said, 50th/Bway should never, ever appear west of 50th/8th on a rider's map! |
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| (1492480) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 11 09:06:05 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 11 07:42:59 2018. That was a big oopsie. |
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| (1492481) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 11 09:08:29 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Sat Nov 10 16:45:53 2018. By the 60s, Hagstrom maps showed the BMT in green. |
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| (1492482) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 11 09:09:10 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 11 03:48:10 2018. You'd have deja vu all over again.:) |
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| (1492524) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 11 17:21:38 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Nov 10 22:51:54 2018. If I recall, at that time, there were still rush hour only RR/Nassau St specials and of course #5s running to/from 241 St Wh Pl Rd. Did you get to those? |
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| (1492529) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 11 17:39:43 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 11 03:48:10 2018. When colors were introduced with Chrystie in 1967, they tried that but there are so many lines that there were a number of duplications which is why they changed to colors for trunk lines only. Even with that, the G Line and the Lex line are both green even though thenG’s color is a slightly lighter shade than the Lex. I believe that when the full SAS is eventually opened to lower Manhattan it will be a shade of blue which is similar but not identical the the 8 Av line. Maybe it’s time to think about going back to the pre Chrystie colors of the IRT, BMT and IND. The IRT can be blue, the BMT (which would be all lines that operate any part of their routes on the former BMT) can be yellow and the IND (which are lines that run only on the former IND and have absolutely no running on BMT routes) can be red. In plain language, all numbered lines would be blue, lines A, C, E, F, G, can be red, and B, D, J, L, M, N, Q, R, W, Z can be yellow. |
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| (1492532) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 11 18:01:25 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 11 17:39:43 2018. Yellow into three groups: IND/BMT and BMT-Southern, BMT_eastern only. |
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| (1492550) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Nov 11 20:20:33 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 11 17:39:43 2018. Why call anything with any BMT running BMT? Why not call anything with any IND running IND? The sensible thing would be to keep the B and D as IND and keep the R as BMT. But they aren't going to lump trains into three Division colors regardless.BTW, there is one place I've seen Division names still used: an elevator at 161st St. has buttons labeled "IRT Mezzanine" and "IND Mezzanine". And then there are the emergency exit signs at the ends of all underground stations, which mention the Division of the physical line, but those are for "first responders" and not really for use by the general public. |
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| (1492557) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 01:18:50 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 11 18:01:25 2018. I suggested yellow for any line which operate on the BMT and red for those lines which operate on the IND only. I would consider any line that operates on the BMT a BMT line. Lines that operate both on the IND and BMT would be considered BMT. |
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| (1492558) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 01:21:13 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Nov 11 20:20:33 2018. Actually, the sensible thong would be to keep anything that runs on the BMT as BMT and lines that operate only on theIND without any BMT operation whatsoever would be IND. |
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| (1492568) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 08:34:34 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 01:18:50 2018. The “JFK Express Blue” intended for the Second Avenue Subway is sufficiently distinct from 8th Avenue blue. In some languages, those two colors have a different name. Nobody will be confused.You’re just trying to bring back the old divisions for nostalgia’s sake. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 12 09:46:50 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 01:21:13 2018. Why? |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 10:43:26 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 08:34:34 2018. Not nostalgia, but consolidating many colors into fewer. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Nov 12 10:50:31 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 01:21:13 2018. If you stop to think about it, IND encompasses lines that were captured and extended (i.e.: the R in Queens, the F in south Brooklyn, the J and Z on Archer Avenue) aside from the purely IND lines (i.e.: the E and C, since the A has a captured section of BMT El on Liberty Ave.).The ONLY true BMT lines that exist on only BMT trackage are the N--did not benefit from any extensions whatsoever) and the pre-2nd Ave. Subway Q line. Even the L has the one-station extension built by the IND (8th Ave). Which begs the question -- BMT extensions built after Unification in 1940 -- are they considered IND at all?? Such as Archer Ave. insofar as the J and Z are concerned? And the Q on 2nd Ave.? Because it was planned as part of the IND Second System? |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 10:50:50 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 10:43:26 2018. And what would be the purpose of that? Is there a pigment shortage? |
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| (1492578) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 10:56:59 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Nov 12 10:50:31 2018. The SAS is officially part of the IND. I don’t know about Archer lower. |
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| (1492588) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 12:19:12 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 10:50:50 2018. If you followed the discussion, some thought it was too confusing with too many colors for the lay person. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 12:20:37 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Nov 12 10:50:31 2018. Go by whatever radio frequency they use. The Q train changes from BMT to IND as it enters 2nd Avenue. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 12:28:03 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 12:19:12 2018. Only one person thought that. I did not get the sense that randyo necessarily agreed. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 12 12:51:26 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 12:20:37 2018. Why would it do that, since there is nothing else on Second Avenue? But there is the shared platform with the F at Lex/63rd St. So I guess the Q switches to the IND (B2) frequency entering that stretch. Actually, according to the online track maps, the Q encounters a switch back to the BMT local on leaving 57 St. northbound, but also a switch to the F line track before entering Lex/63rd. So where is the frequency switch done? If it has to be done at a station, I'd guess 57th St. Or is it done while in motion between 57th and Lex/63rd? |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 13:04:55 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 12:20:37 2018. The emergency exit signs at the platform ends refer to it as the “IND Second Avenue Line.” Note that all such signs systemwide have the historic division as part of the line name. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by FtgreeneG on Mon Nov 12 14:02:20 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 11 03:48:10 2018. Don't understand why it's confusing. Each trunk line has a color 3-4 individual like es serving each trunk line. Each stop it says what line stops there. To me that's better than every line having its own line on a map. NYC has 20+ sobway lines that's a lot of lines all over the map. Imo that would be sensory overload to a newbie. Then again I've lived here all my life so I might just be used to the regular maps. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 14:21:36 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 12 12:51:26 2018. Its called IND internally, but since trains have to take the crossover off the 6th Avenue line to reach it, and its schedule has only trains from the Broadway Line on a regular basis, I think they got it backwards.Even when it reaches lower Manhattan, the T will merely be a long branch line. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Nov 12 14:25:56 2018, in response to Why New Yorkers Insisted On A "Worse" Subway Map, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Nov 10 04:06:16 2018. I still think the best map of all was the Eddie Jabbour map (portion shown). |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 15:10:55 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by VictorM on Mon Nov 12 14:25:56 2018. Makes you go cross-eyed. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 15:21:27 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by FtgreeneG on Mon Nov 12 14:02:20 2018. What confuses people isn’t the map but the New York Subway itself. The map, as it is currently designed, is fine.One thing that maybe should be considered is having separate lines for local and express everywhere and not just peak direction expresses. That might add unduly to Midtown clutter, though. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:18:00 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 12:28:03 2018. The problem with using colors in NY is that unlike most other colorized cities, the colorized trunk lines have multiple branches. For example saying that the “Orange Line” goes to the Bronx is only partially accurate since two lines that carry the orange color go to Queens as well. At the south end, the orange 6 Av line has 3 branches, the West End the Culver and the Brighton so a one size fits all system as used in places like Boston or Philly won’t work well in NY. Even in Boston, the trolley subway or “Green Line” suffers from the same problem in that it too has multiple branches necessitating the addition of letters to describe those branches. Lettering or numbering the lines provides a much more accurate way of describing routes in a system such as NY’s and returning to the pre Chrystie system of the 3 divisions seems to make the most sense. |
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| (1492617) | |
Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:20:07 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 10:56:59 2018. Although it is officially part of the IND, at the present time it is operated as part of a BMT line. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:23:25 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 14:21:36 2018. Once the SAS is completed in its entirety and becomes a genuine part of the IND, then it will be basically another Manhattan trunk line with a BMT line operating over it like Queens Blvd which is an IND line with 2 BMT lines operating on it. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 16:36:19 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:18:00 2018. Just because the map is color coded, doesn’t mean that anyone has to use the “orange line” nomenclature. Your proposal is even more confusing in that regard as any out-of-towner apt to use the color scheme is completely lost. The old divisions are only of interest to historians and railfans.And as for cities that have branching colors, Boston also has unlettered branches on the Red Line, plus the BRS in Philadelphia, the Green Line in Chicago (and formerly Blue), the Orange Line in LA and abroad, London’s named line branch, and so do the numbered lines in Paris (7) and Moscow (4), where there is no better name for the branch than the terminal. But all of that is not really applicable because we DO have the distinct letters and numbers. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 16:54:21 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 16:36:19 2018. Out of towners refer to the various trunk lines as their color knowing no better because that is what is done in many other cities. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 17:22:28 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 16:54:21 2018. And if they do, it’s probably better that the color scheme means something useful than if they went back to the 1967 scheme where unrelated routes had the same color.IMO a letter or number scheme is always better. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Nov 12 17:38:18 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 11 17:39:43 2018. No |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Nov 12 19:53:32 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:18:00 2018. Colorizing the trunk lines helps to orient one's sense of direction on the Manhattan grid, and helps explain the relationship of the lines to each other for journey planning.Even if you takes the wrong train (for example, get on an A while intending to go to 23rd St) it's still reassuring to know you'll be generally in the right vicinity and can more easily correct your mistake, just by knowing the principle that trains of the same color run together (within Manhattan anyway). It holds up in outer boroughs as well: if you're at Times Sq on the BMT and trying to get to Forest Hills, and you notice that every train around you has a yellow sign, it's logical to check if some yellow-colored train might be useful to you, before trying to look for other routes. That said, I notice (among my friends anyway) that people who spend enough time in NY end up learning specific line designations - but they live here and don't need to refer to the map as often anyway. The colors are best for people unfamiliar with the system, or traveling to unfamiliar places. A map can serve multiple use cases! (Of course, I also have Manhattanite friends who never leave the borough and so generally have more freedom to refer to everything by color...) |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Nov 12 20:55:30 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Joe V on Mon Nov 12 16:54:21 2018. Not only out-of-towners. Millennials too. I've heard them use colors many times. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Nov 13 01:30:26 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Nov 12 17:22:28 2018. You are right, but culturally it rubs me the wrong way - the Red Line goes to Harvard (ok, Alewife for many years), not the upper west side of Manhattan; and the Brown line is in Chicago, not Williamsburg and east. |
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Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 13 01:33:35 2018, in response to Re: Why New Yorkers Insisted On A ''Worse'' Subway Map, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 12 16:18:00 2018. Actually, unless the MTA orders color coded LEDs on the R-211s and retrofits the rest of the NTTs with color coded LEDs, the whole concept of color coding is useless. |
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