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| (1482742) | |
Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 2 18:14:46 2018 Not that the $1.00 or $0.85 was killing meI only use the RR on a sporadic , anyway. |
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| (1482743) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 2 18:42:44 2018, in response to Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 2 18:14:46 2018. SEPTA Key Senior Fare Card (photo ID)Valid PA Driver's License/Non-Driver ID Seems that seniors not residing in Pennsylvania cannot get a discount. |
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| (1482744) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 2 18:49:40 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 2 18:42:44 2018. I'm afraid so. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1482745) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 2 19:07:19 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 2 18:49:40 2018. same BS Illinois pulled a few years back. If the Congress wanted to sort this out, your SS or Medical card would be valid for senior fare on any system which accepts ANY Fed monies. Simple, good for tourists. |
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| (1482746) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 2 19:17:06 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 2 19:07:19 2018. Why should seniors get a free ride anyway? |
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| (1482748) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Aug 2 19:33:54 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 2 19:17:06 2018. I don't care whether free or merely reduced--the latter based on Social Security being way less than what we earned in our prime years. I just want a simple system which is nationwide for when I do visit fiends. In Portland FYI, I can buy a senior daypass from a TVM. If/when challenged by a POP checker, the Medical or my CA senior non driver ID is sufficient. |
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| (1482775) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 00:20:42 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 2 19:17:06 2018. If the agency offers it to any senior, then it should offer it to all seniors regardless of residence or not offer it et all. It could be grounds for a class action suit. |
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| (1482783) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Aug 3 05:01:47 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 2 19:17:06 2018. SEPTA values the contributions that our Senior customers have made to this region throughout their lifetimes, and we are pleased to be able to now offer free travel.I guess that's meant as a sort-of explanation of why a) local (PA) seniors get a free ride and b) out-of-state seniors don't. Of course, people can move into PA after they turn 65, but the percentage of in-state seniors who have done so will be small. |
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| (1482785) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by BusMgr on Fri Aug 3 05:27:55 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 2 19:17:06 2018. The law requires half-fare (at least during off-peak hours) to be offered to seniors, persons with disabilities, and persons with a Medicare card, if the transportation system receives federal assistance. 49 U.S.C. § 5307. This applies regardless of one's residence, and cannot be restricted to, say, only residents of Pennsylvania. Now Pennsylvania can go beyond the federal requirements, and offer "free" transportation only to Pennsylvania residents, so long as all qualified persons can receive at least the half-fare benefit. And the Federal Transit Administration has taken the position that a holder of a Medicare card can be obligated to validate their card with the transit agency (i.e., prove that they are the person to whom the card was issued), and to do so by obtaining a special reduced fare in advance of travel, so long as it is "easy" enough to do so. FTA C 9030.1E (page VI-4). The problem with SEPTA is that they're telling everyone that Medicare cards are "no longer accepted," which is a clear violation of conditions upon which SEPTA received federal funds. |
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| (1482791) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 07:25:18 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 00:20:42 2018. Law suit for what? There is nothing that requires the agency to offer free rides to non residents. They are likely running afoul of the requirement to offer off peak half fares regardless of residency to seniors and disabled, but that is a separate matter. |
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| (1482794) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Aug 3 07:59:52 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Joe V on Thu Aug 2 18:42:44 2018. Nonresident seniors can get a Senior Key Card. I have one. |
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| (1482795) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 08:12:36 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Fri Aug 3 05:27:55 2018. The law requires half-fare (at least during off-peak hours) to be offered to seniors, persons with disabilities, and persons with a Medicare card, if the transportation system receives federal assistance.Hmm. I thought (based on experience) that NJT and LIRR offer less than a 50% discount. Might be my misunderstanding, and I don't have time to research it now. And of course Amtrak doesn't. |
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| (1482814) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 3 13:09:50 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 00:20:42 2018. Let me understand something here.If I, a senior citizen with a Medicare card residing in the City of New York, rides SEPTA from Trenton to Philadelphia am I still entitled to half fare? |
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| (1482815) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 3 13:14:14 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 08:12:36 2018. If memory serves, as a senior, I do get less than half fare on NJT but not on LIRR, and I ASSume the same would be true on MN. |
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| (1482818) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 13:41:52 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 3 13:14:14 2018. MNRR is exactly half of peak fare for seniors.Last time I rode NJT, I thought I paid more than half, but I could be wrong. |
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| (1482819) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Aug 3 13:48:04 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 08:12:36 2018. LIRR and MN are the same.Peak fare/2 rounded down to nearest $0.25 increment. |
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| (1482832) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Aug 3 15:53:10 2018, in response to Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 2 18:14:46 2018. Sounds like any senior from out-of-state its screwed.And any senior from outside of the Philly area is also screwed if he has a driver's license issued after July, 2017, because those newer licenses don't work. Thus he has to get a specific SEPTA card which he won't if he's from out of town. |
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| (1482833) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Aug 3 15:56:24 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Fri Aug 3 05:27:55 2018. Sounds like a lawsuit a-brewing. |
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| (1482839) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 16:25:29 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 07:25:18 2018. However, the MTA in NY does offer the half fare Metrocard to all who register for it regardless of residence. |
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| (1482840) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 16:30:55 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by chuchubob on Fri Aug 3 07:59:52 2018. Now that is good to know. |
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| (1482844) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 17:07:42 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by randyo on Fri Aug 3 16:25:29 2018. Yes, my mom used to get all the brochures. Her reduced fare card required getting a photo taken. But NYC lets anyone with valid id pay reduced fare when applicable in cash. The id requirements are pretty inclusive including passports and out of state licenses or a medicare card. |
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| (1482847) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 17:17:51 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 13:41:52 2018. Both MN and LIRR, with the proviso that reduced fares are not available on inbound weekday morning westbound peak hour trains. Pay on board penalties are waived for those qualified. |
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| (1482849) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 17:20:18 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 08:12:36 2018. Amtrak doesn't count as mass transit/commuter. |
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| (1482851) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by northshore on Fri Aug 3 17:24:55 2018, in response to Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 2 18:14:46 2018. Senior non-residents of Pennsylvania can ride on public transit for free |
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| (1482852) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 3 17:25:17 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by R30A on Fri Aug 3 13:48:04 2018. My error.The senior fare is 1/2 of the peak fare, not 1/2 of the off peak fare. I'll eat crow on that one. |
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| (1482857) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 3 17:39:12 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Thu Aug 2 19:17:06 2018. FTA regs require at least half fare, though they can make it difficult to get, as RTA does in Chicago. |
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| (1482858) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 3 17:41:15 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by AlM on Fri Aug 3 13:41:52 2018. Senior/handicap discount on NJT is 55%. Look up the fares and see for yourself.Senior on NJT (not the Port Jevis/Spring Valley portions) means 62, not 65. |
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| (1482859) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 17:42:26 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by northshore on Fri Aug 3 17:24:55 2018. If that is the case, they need to make their websites much clearer. That is not how it presents on the SEPTA or SEPTA Key sites. |
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| (1482861) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by chuchubob on Fri Aug 3 18:05:08 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by northshore on Fri Aug 3 17:24:55 2018. Not on Regional Rail. Regional Rail is currently $1. As of SEPT 1 it will be free with Senior Key Card. |
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| (1482863) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 18:10:59 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Joe V on Fri Aug 3 17:41:15 2018. If you're a senior citizen or a person with a disability, you can enjoy greater traveling freedom and lower fares. When you ride with NJ TRANSIT, you can save one-half or more of the regular one-way fare.This is what I get when I look it up. |
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| (1482870) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by BusMgr on Fri Aug 3 18:42:18 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 17:20:18 2018. Actually, it is not that Amtrak doesn't count because of it not being "mass transit/commuter," but because Amtrak does not receive federal assistance through section 5307. In contrast, the Alaska Railroad--which is clearly intercity and not commuter rail--does benefit from federal assistance through a particular provision within section 5307, and thus it offers half fare for eligible persons during off peak periods (which the railroad defines as being from mid-September through mid-May). |
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| (1482881) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 19:52:27 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Fri Aug 3 18:42:18 2018. Thanks, that is a good clarification... |
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| (1482937) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sat Aug 4 17:35:55 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Fri Aug 3 05:27:55 2018. I suppose an agency without explicit peak vs. off-peak periods could contrive a way to define all periods as "peak" by default, thus skirting the requirement in the law. There would technically be nothing illegal about SEPTA's new course if they considered 12:01a to 11:59p daily their "peak" period.I can understand wanting people to bear a standardized pass indicating eligibility (like most systems require for people with disabilities) that way systems can establish people are eligible and not leave it up to an individual conductor, inspector, operator, etc. to determine what is or is not valid identification for half fares. The processes to getting those passes should become more streamlined and expeditious, though. All the more reason to require transit pass interoperability nationwide...that way people could qualify in their home place and use the same media anywhere when they travel. |
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| (1482949) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Aug 4 21:22:12 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by lirr42 on Sat Aug 4 17:35:55 2018. While recipients of federal assistance are given great latitude in defining peak and off-peak time periods, I think that there would have to be a good faith effort to do so, one for which peak being 12:01 a.m. to 11:59 p.m. would fail. That being said, some recipients have taken some liberties that I think go too far. Already mentioned elsewhere on this thread is the Alaska Railroad, with a peak period that extends from mid-May through mid-September. The San Francisco Municipal Railway has peak periods for its cable-operated routes extending from 7:00 a.m. until 9:00 p.m. Finally, a recipient of federal assistance could avoid having any discounts specially for seniors, persons with disabilities, and Medicare card-holders by establishing a fare structure for all persons where the off-peak fare is half the price of the peak fare.There are are important policy considerations for nationwide standards. Importantly, each area of the country has its own perceptions as to the degree to which its citizens are to support public transportation at the farebox and through taxation. Included in those policy decisions are the various discounts, eligibility criteria, and other pricing mechanisms to be incorporated. For that reason, there cannot be uniform policy nationwide. On the other hand, increasingly transit systems are adopting policies that emphasize card-based payment systems, and effectively penalize those persons without those media (e.g., higher fares, no transfers). While cash used to be a universal fare medium, no longer is it the case, and transit users must now carry a plethora of cards if they travel throughout the country. EZ-Pass has demonstrated that various jurisdictions can adopt a common technological standard, and a clearinghouse for distributions of payments earned, yet allowing each jurisdiction control over their own policies. Transit may be more complicated, but it seems that is the direction to go, a standardized card with enough fields that it could be used nationwide (e.g., a birthday field that would allow discounts at, say, age 62 for for some jurisdictions, but age 65 at other jurisdictions). |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by lirr42 on Sat Aug 4 22:56:00 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Sat Aug 4 21:22:12 2018. I was thinking more along the lines of not standardizing fares or fare policies, but rather requiring fare media interoperability, with some sort of technical standard all agencies have to abide by, and a consistent definition/standard for what disabilities qualify for half fares, and maybe even a standard definition for what being a "senior" means (or "child" too), though a verified DOB could work too. Along the lines of what EZ-Pass does, where the definitions of vehicle classes (what counts as car, bus, truck, etc.) is standardized across issuers so you can pay the correct toll without hassle.Then it would remain up to the individual agencies to determine fares for each trip, like EZ-Pass. The information on the card, as well as any cash balance you might maintain should be communicable nationwide. Luckily, with several systems electing to have "open" fare payment systems (like Chicago Ventra, SEPTA Key, and hopefully the MTA's NFPS), where any credit card, or an agency-issed para-debit card can be used to pay, they would have most of the front-end infrastructure in place to support full interoperability. Agencies would just have to coordinate sharing information on the backend (which banks and credit cards figured out ages ago, but would probably take many agencies a decade to reinvent the wheel). Closed systems should be brought up to the same standard... I, and I'm sure even the most occasional domestic traveler, have a drawer-full of transit passes from various cities (most of which had to be purchased at an up-front cost). This country's various toll facility operators have already consolidated to basically four different toll transponder systems for each area of the country, and now that nationwide transponder interoperability is a requirement under MAP-21, they will hopefully one day achieve that. The same would be good to do for transit systems. |
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| (1482964) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Aug 5 00:06:35 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by lirr42 on Sat Aug 4 22:56:00 2018. That level of interoperability is sortof Japan's approach, though the overlap is... confusing to say the least. In general, the following is true:1. Any card purchased in a particular city for a particular railroad is good for one-way fares for all railroads and many buses in that city. 2. Unlimited/commutation passes can only be loaded/used for the railroad that issued the card. 3. Any JR card will work for all JR railroads country-wide. However, they will only work on non-JR lines in the cities served by the issuing JR railroad (see: 1). The overlap is possible because virtually the entire country uses the same SONY proprietary IC card system. AFAIK no one in the US uses this system, which is a shame because it is the fastest one I've ever experienced, no one needs to break stride at a quick walking pace to use it. Meanwhile WMATA, CTA and the T all have a half second lag after tapping before a reaction. |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 5 02:07:49 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Sat Aug 4 21:22:12 2018. SF Muni's fare gouging on the Cable Cars is aimed at tourists based on the assumption locals don't ride them. Having commuted to a job site on the Hyde St line, I consider this bogus. As to the time of offpeak fares, Muni has recently canceled Dalifornia Street cable cars post 9 PM. I will say that the other evening the conductor on the car I rode never bothered to collect my fare. |
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| (1482971) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 5 05:20:16 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by chuchubob on Fri Aug 3 07:59:52 2018. Nonresident seniors can get a Senior Key Card. I have one.Thanks, Chuchubob, I guess we still have the problem of people visiting ,Philadelphia for the day, and won't have time to get a KEY card, and of course , a Senior Key Card. They will have to pay a cash fare each time or use a credit card(when that starts working.) That seems unfair. |
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| (1482997) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 5 11:57:47 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 5 05:20:16 2018. I agree. I went to Philly for a few days a couple of years ago, and all I had to do was show my Medicare card to the agent to get in free.Not that I insist on getting in free. I would be perfectly happy with half fare. |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sun Aug 5 12:57:42 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 5 05:20:16 2018. I want to get a WMATA senior card for the times I visit family in the area but I am always there on weekends and the places where you can get it are only open during the week. They have no option of getting it by mail. |
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| (1482999) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 5 13:03:04 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Bzuck on Sun Aug 5 12:57:42 2018. CTA when I queried several years ago required a snail mail application. Just selling geezer day passes at the tvms as Potland does seems much more tourist friendly. |
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| (1483030) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Aug 5 19:22:41 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 5 02:07:49 2018. You're suggesting that the purpose of the cable-operated routes is not to provide transportation but to provide a recreational or sight-seeing service. Neither Gray Line bus tours, nor ski lifts at the mountain, qualify for federal transit assistance, as their purposes are other than transportation (even though transportation is part of the service of each). If that is the case with the cable-operated routes, then perhaps the FTA should stop providing funds, and allow the city of San Francisco to charge elderly and disabled persons higher fares all day long. |
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| (1483034) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 5 20:05:14 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by BusMgr on Sun Aug 5 19:22:41 2018. I'm not sure the purpose of the cable cars is only to serve tourists, but that is the way the service has evolved in effect. |
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| (1483039) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 5 20:38:36 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 5 20:05:14 2018. I do NOT share Muni's attitude about cable car usage. While I certainly have been on cars where the majority of riders seemed to be tourists, I consider myself a local even though I cross the Bay from Oakland. There hasve been monthjs when I bought a Muni monthly pass. |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Aug 5 23:01:54 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 5 20:05:14 2018. My concern is that the E and F routes may also go that way. |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Tue Aug 7 19:44:41 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 3 07:25:18 2018. If you read the description closely, at best the instructions are vague. I don't believe that out of state seniors would not be eligible for the reduced fare program. For example, and out of town senior citizen can go to stone street (2 Broadway) and apply for a reduced Metrocard.Granted, a one time visitor to NYC may not be inclined to go to Stone Street to apply for a reduced Metrocard, but those who frequently visit NYC have an opportunity to obtain a reduced card, also usable as proof on LIRR/MNCRR for an applicable senior discount by those rail carriers. |
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| (1483201) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 7 20:06:41 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by HANDBRAKE on Tue Aug 7 19:44:41 2018. I know an out-of-town couple who have obtained an MTA Senior Metrocard. |
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| (1483203) | |
Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by pragmatist on Tue Aug 7 20:16:37 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 7 20:06:41 2018. You can apply by mail.....the application is on line |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 8 15:06:46 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by HANDBRAKE on Tue Aug 7 19:44:41 2018. That’s the point I was making. The MTA has machinery in place to allow out of staters to ride at half fare but I didn’t see anything similar regarding SEPTA. |
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Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR |
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Posted by chuchubob on Thu Aug 9 09:10:50 2018, in response to Re: Seniors to ride free on Septa RR, posted by randyo on Wed Aug 8 15:06:46 2018. On SEPTA, out-of-staters have to go to 1234 Market Street or room 109 Suburban Station to get a Senior Key Card. |
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