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| Probably not credible, NY Post article (1481082) | |
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| (1481082) | |
Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jul 16 20:16:00 2018 Broken equipment |
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Alarming number of NYC subways are using broken equipment |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 22:27:03 2018, in response to Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jul 16 20:16:00 2018. They're as credible as any of the liberal publications. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 23:05:21 2018, in response to Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jul 16 20:16:00 2018. ? Why the snark and sneer? Oh yeah, you're #element.The article not only lists conditions, but names specific sources. It's pretty good journalism. If the article quoted "an unnamed source" it would be credible to you because that's how you people are. Thanks for posting this. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 16 23:07:41 2018, in response to Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jul 16 20:16:00 2018. I can tell you from talking to current t/o's the broken speedometers are real.Many were that way on the R68/68A's, which I operated on the G. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 16 23:09:05 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 16 23:07:41 2018. There are also many dead radio spots in the system. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Jul 17 08:48:47 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 16 23:07:41 2018. And even when the Speedometers "worked" they weren't accurate and still get tripped. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Tue Jul 17 10:30:28 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 16 23:07:41 2018. The speedometers broke is very real. R68/A's esp on the D is the worst. And yes to management it's not a big deal. And a T/O will still take out of service or written up if caught with a broken speedometer. |
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Re: Alarming number of NYC subways are using broken equipment |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 17 10:53:59 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 23:05:21 2018. Those that need to be told which sources are "credible" are not thinking, sad to say.Even the Slimes, Compost and Grauniad still report actual news occasionally. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jul 17 12:19:31 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by FtGreeneG on Tue Jul 17 10:30:28 2018. I knew a few retired motormen & they never had speedometers in their older eqiptment. They did go by "feel" to determine their speed. "We don't need no speedometers!" they'd say. "A good motorman could judge his speed & never get tripped" Such was the credo of the "old school"But that was then... |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 17 12:27:57 2018, in response to Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jul 16 20:16:00 2018. Speedometers are a fairly recent innovation. |
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Re: Alarming number of NYC subways are using broken equipment |
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Posted by Allan on Tue Jul 17 13:56:42 2018, in response to Alarming number of NYC subways are using broken equipment, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 22:27:03 2018. The NY Post - liberal?????Riiiiigggghhhhtttt. And I have a bridge for sale cheap. |
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Re: Alarming number of NYC subways are using broken equipment |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jul 17 14:50:47 2018, in response to Re: Alarming number of NYC subways are using broken equipment, posted by Allan on Tue Jul 17 13:56:42 2018. Funny how that works.Anything Repulsive Republicans read that disagrees with their insane views...is automatically labeled "liberal". And YES...According to them,that very word is a bigoted slur. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Tue Jul 17 15:12:02 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jul 17 12:19:31 2018. That's the attitude which allows broken speedometers not to be a big deal. They usually say time yourself passing the columns. I mean it isn't hard clearing the timers you hold on to some brake approaching a timer slowing down until it clears and boom you go that speed to clear the rest. However doing that you're likely probably going a little slower than necessary to clear the timers and after multiple timers across a line those slower speeds accumulate to lost minutes. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 16:55:51 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jul 17 12:19:31 2018. And today they have radar guns all over the place manned by TSS'. At least 2. 1 with the gun, 1 with the notepad.And telling them you have a broken speedometer is no excuse for getting nailed. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 16:57:41 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by italianstallion on Tue Jul 17 12:27:57 2018. What is your definition of "fairly recent"? |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 17:06:08 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Jul 17 08:48:47 2018. I’m not sure of the accuracy of the speedometers, but the problem is often with the calibration of the GT signals. Regardless of what MPH is displayed, it’s still up to the T//O to keep the train under sufficient control so that the signals will clear. As for the T/Os being expected to bae able to “feel” the speed of the train, while exact accuracy of the speed is not fully possible, any T/O worth his/her sale should be able to tell the difference between 10 MPH and 30 MPH. When I took the M/M test in 1968, all candidates had to be able to estimate the speed of the trains at various locations as specified by the examiners and indicate such by stepping on a pedal attached to a device which would recored the response. We were also required to make 3 stops at designated locations making 1 application and 2 releases the last of which would be made after the final stop with 10 PSI of air left in the brake cylinder as shown on the air gauge. Until the arrival of the R-44s, no NYCTS equipment had speedometers at all. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 17:14:05 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by FtGreeneG on Tue Jul 17 15:12:02 2018. For T/Os who work a line regularly, it’s not that difficult to be able to approach the timers at the prop[er speed so that they will clear. The yellow over S timers are easier to deal with than the red over lunar white since they give the T/O a bit of breathing room to slow down before getting tripped. With the S timer system, the yellow over S is supposed to go to a green right in front of the T/O if the train is going the proper speed which means that the next signal which was red will turn to yellow over S or in a few cases green. Red over lunar white requires the T/O to be a bit more cautious since the signal not clearing would almost guarantee the train being tripped. V/R or XL T/Os who don’t work a particular line frequently might have a bit more trouble and of course operate a bit more cautiously to avoid the BIE. |
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| (1481182) | |
Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 17:15:55 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 16:57:41 2018. The first ones didn’t show up until 1973 on the R-44s and on the rest of the equipment not until the GOH of the late 1980s. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 17:21:03 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 17:15:55 2018. Exactly. So I wouldn't call 45 years ago a relatively recent innovation. That was my point in questioning him.The retrofits on the older cars wasn't started till after the #4 line wreck, which wasn't recent either. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 17:25:24 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 17:06:08 2018. Even if the timers were correctly calibrated, they would clear at the point the signal was in the t/o's face, which is no way to operate just in case the signal goes on the fritz. Of course the old timers on the Canarsie line back in the day always had those signals clear in their face. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Tue Jul 17 17:32:42 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by randyo on Tue Jul 17 17:14:05 2018. Very true you do a line enough you begin to know it like the back of your hand timers included. The 1 shot (red) timers obviously are the most dramatic bc theres not 2nd chances so T/O's cautiously dramatically slow down. imo a problem is these 1 shot timers clearing WAY less than the speed posted. One example being those 1 shots on the N bet 8th ave and 59st. They're posted for 25mph but if you approach that thing at anymore than 15 mph you're gonna trip. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jul 17 21:26:18 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 16:55:51 2018. Forgive the "dumb" question. How does a T/O know if his speedometer works unless/until he takes his train out on the road?? |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 22:00:47 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jul 17 21:26:18 2018. He doesn't till he moves the train, unless it's dark. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bklynsubwaybob on Wed Jul 18 06:48:02 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 17:25:24 2018. I always had GT signals clear right at the M/Ms vision glass but only after a few trial runs. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 14:50:33 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 17:25:24 2018. that would always be a problem with the red over lunar white, but then yellow over S timers gave the M/M a chance to slow down before the red so there was less chance of being tripped. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:03:35 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by FtGreeneG on Tue Jul 17 17:32:42 2018. When I was breaking in as a M/M on the 14 St line. there was a one shot timer approaching Jefferson St S/B which, when I rode as a passenger never saw actually clear when the train got to it. When I was breaking in the M/M instructing me told me to turn the controller off at a particular emergency exit a bit before the signal and coast. As I got closer to the signal, it still didn’t change and the only thing that happened was that as my cab window approached the signal, the lunar white went out but I never actually saw the signal clear but I didn’t get tripped either. Fortunately I had one of the last remaining trains of steels on the line so even if I had been tripped, I could reset from the cab which I couldn’t have done with an R-9. Old timers on the line told me that even if they cut some of the timers close and did get tripped, they could have the tripcock reset, the train charged and brakes released before the train even came to a full stop. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:11:52 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 17:21:03 2018. The problem with the #4 Line incident was that the GT which was in effect only when the switch was set for the diverging route wasn’t far enough back so that the M/M didn’t have enough of a chance to slowdown sufficiently to take the switch at a safe speed. A similar arrangement existed approaching 72 St S/B on Bway but again in that case the start of the GT was not far enough away fo the M/M to slow down for the switch. Since that time the signals in that and similar locations have been adjusted so that there is plenty of time for the T/O to slow down to a safe speed. Actually, a new system has been installed in many locations using “wheel detectors” which when activated for a similar situation flash lunar white until the train has slowed to the proper speed and go steady once that speed has been reached. Unlike the older GT signals however, the stop arms on the wheel detector signals will come up under the train if the T/O should attempt to exceed the posted speed. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 18 19:22:41 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 14:50:33 2018. The Canarsie Line in the tube (and in many other locations), had red signals on time, no lunar white, no signals with yellow + S. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 18 19:27:05 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by randyo on Wed Jul 18 15:03:35 2018. In todays world of being a train operator, if you go Brakes in Emergency for any reason you are to call it in. If you don't (c/r does not hear you on the radio), he is to pull the cord.If you 2 are good buddies and the t/o simply does the "trip, recharge, go" like you described above), if you have a supervisor or manager on the train you are out of service. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 19 16:03:04 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 18 19:22:41 2018. That’s correct. The GT signals between Bway Jct and Bushwick were like that but interestingly enough they functioned like “S” timers in that the yellow cleared to the green if the train were going at the proper speed. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jul 19 16:04:38 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jul 18 19:27:05 2018. Much of the stuff we used to get away with back in the day, would get employees suspended if not outrightly demoted or terminated. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Fri Jul 20 13:24:56 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jul 17 17:25:24 2018. That’s the way motermen on PATH operated for years until CBTC began to come on line. Seemed to work just fine for them. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bzuck on Fri Jul 20 15:07:32 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Strike_Mark on Fri Jul 20 13:24:56 2018. Speaking of PATH I hear CBTC and PTC used interchangeably. What system did they actually install? |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Fri Jul 20 17:28:31 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bzuck on Fri Jul 20 15:07:32 2018. CBTC, very similar to what is in use on the Canarsie line. CBTC incorporates the FRA required functions of PTC. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jul 20 21:01:13 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Strike_Mark on Fri Jul 20 13:24:56 2018. Their disciplinary system for hitting a signal may not be as harsh as that at NYCT.At NYCT if you "trip, recharge and go" you could lose your handles for good if you don't bang yourself in. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Fri Jul 20 22:25:03 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jul 20 21:01:13 2018. FRA regulations require the 30 day revocation of an engineers license for any red signal violation. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jul 21 15:08:13 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jul 20 21:01:13 2018. That’s now. As I mentioned in my other post, when I was a M/M in 1968-70 you could get away with a lot of stuff that today would get you either suspended, demoted or terminated outright. |
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Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Jul 22 02:19:45 2018, in response to Re: Probably not credible, NY Post article, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jul 20 21:01:13 2018. NYCT getting caught for a'trip recharge and go' doubt think you would lose you handles on a first offense but would get hit hard. Days in street and working the platform for a while definitely. But yeah if not 1st offense there might be a broom/dustpan in your future... |
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