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| BMT El train lengths (1480377) | |
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| (1480379) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jul 6 11:33:35 2018, in response to BMT El train lengths, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 6 10:55:49 2018. The el if I know! |
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| (1480395) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Joe on Fri Jul 6 13:18:45 2018, in response to BMT El train lengths, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 6 10:55:49 2018. A friend's Dad was a gate man on Myrtle or Lexington. The friend remarked how his father had to use two hefty levers to work the gates, and that the gate opened not into the crowd but by slipping to the side, out of the way.-- In an attempt to find a photo of working gates between Myrtle or Lexington gate cars, I perused more than 700 photos of BMT gate trains. I did not get the mid-train gate operation that I was searching for, as railfans tended to take front-end photos. However, I noticed that most gate trains were three cars. That is, they probably had a motorman and two gate men. Link to nycsubway.com photos |
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| (1480425) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Fri Jul 6 17:57:50 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jul 6 11:33:35 2018. Oh, now you're channeling The Unknown Comic? |
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| (1480429) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jul 6 18:57:07 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Joe on Fri Jul 6 13:18:45 2018. True, but usually in the rush 5 cars and 4 gate men. |
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| (1480434) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 6 21:05:18 2018, in response to BMT El train lengths, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 6 10:55:49 2018. The BRT/BMT and Manhattan els did not have typical car lengths because some routes were less patronized than others. Also, there were different train lengths for non-rush and rush hours. The Broadway Ferry shuttle used a single ex-Boston vestibule car #998 in the off hours. However, two 3-car gate trains operated during the rush hours. BMT Lexington Ave els had 5 cars during rush hour, three in non-rush, and a 2 car train with a fare collection box, as you entered the gate platform late at night. Your 5th Ave-Bay Ridge locals ran 3 gate cars to sands St during the rush hours, while 5th Ave-Culver expresses ran 5 cars. Beginning in the middle 1930's, the non-rush hour single car bay Ridge shuttle was connected to the Culver el. There were many other examples. |
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| (1480435) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jul 6 21:42:08 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Joe on Fri Jul 6 13:18:45 2018. Try searching on YouTube, for Roger Arcara's transit videos, re: the els - there are two, 2nd and 3rd ave els; 6th and 9th ave els plus old Brooklyn els. There is also his collected (different clips) 2nd ave el in color - don't remember if it is part of either of the above, or was separate.Anyhoo, at least one of these shows an el train stopping at a platform, and the gates being opened. The one I remember IIRC is the 2nd & 3rd ave. el video, there might be scenes on the others, but I don't remember. Some of the 2nd and 3rd ave. el clips appear on other el videos put up on YouTube. |
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| (1480436) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jul 6 21:45:31 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 6 21:05:18 2018. Nice! Thanks - always love these details.Also, I did not know that #998 was a Boston car - what was the "turn of events" that brought it from Boston down to Brooklyn? What years operated, transport from MA TO Brooklyn, year built and then retire/ scrapped, etc. Thanks. |
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| (1480480) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 8 00:25:02 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 6 21:05:18 2018. I haven’t been able to find any documentation that 998 was originally from Boston. |
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| (1480487) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 8 01:10:37 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 6 21:05:18 2018. Thanks! What about the Myrtle and Fulton Els? |
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| (1480512) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jul 8 12:09:37 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 6 21:05:18 2018. The BRT/BMT and Manhattan els did not have typical car lengths because some routes were less patronized than others. Also, there were different train lengths for non-rush and rush hours. The Broadway Ferry shuttle used a single ex-Boston vestibule car #998 in the off hours. Mike: Car 998 never ran in Boston. The Transit Development Corporation (BRT) wanted to test a steel car on el service. The Pressed Steel Car Company had just completed an order for the Boston Elevated Railway. They built one more car for the BRT. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1480521) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jul 8 13:56:37 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sun Jul 8 12:09:37 2018. I should have said Boston-type. You are correct, Cousin Larry! Although it was a lightweight steel design, which could have been used on subway or old el lines, the BRT decided not to order any more of them. They felt that the end doorways and platforms were too narrow for heavy usage, such as rush hours. unlike the IRT, the BRT also wanted future cars without end vestibule doors, like the Standards, "C"-types, etc. |
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| (1480526) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 8 14:41:39 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jul 8 13:56:37 2018. At the time 998 was ordered, that size car was pretty much state of the art for rapid transit cars and even the first commuter MUs, the LIRR MP-41s were that size. By the time the dual contract lines were being designed, commuter coaches were being built to larger dimensions so the PSC felt that the new subway lines should be built to accommodate them. As a result, the BRT abandoned the idea for an IRT (or el) sized steel car and decided to design a larger rapid transit car that would fit the new subways, hence the 67 ft 10 ft wide steel car. Had cars of 998’s dimensions become the standard car instead of the 67 ft car or if the 67 ft cars had only been built to IRT widths, the operation of the Flushing and Astoria lines would have been a lot different as well as the rest of the NYCTS. |
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| (1480533) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jul 8 15:10:19 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 8 01:10:37 2018. Fulton St el: one 3-car "C" set or 3 gates in non-rush hours. Usually, in rush hours, two 3-car "C" sets, downtown express-local to/from Park Row. The downtown local-express was usually 5 gate cars to/from Sands St. The 2 Fulton Ferry put-ins (to preserve the franchise) were 3 gate cars.Myrtle Ave el: before the "Q" cars in mid-1958, the Myrtle used 3 gate cars in non-rush, sometimes 4. Rush hour locals had 5 cars. Some early Myrtle Ave expresses used 6 gate cars to/from Chambers St, owing to a steel car shortage on the Eastern Division. |
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| (1480536) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jul 8 15:25:15 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jul 6 18:57:07 2018. Prior to the 1940 Unification, 2nd Ave-Corona, as well as 3rd Ave and 9th Ave expresses used 7 car gate expresses, in addition to their vestibule MUDC cars. After September, 1950, the remaining 3rd Ave el used 6 car "Q" expresses and 5 car MUDC's, in rush hours. |
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| (1480572) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 8 21:54:08 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jul 8 15:10:19 2018. That steel cars shortage probably hadn’t existed since the 1920s. |
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| (1480592) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Mon Jul 9 09:52:59 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by randyo on Sun Jul 8 21:54:08 2018. The BMT steel car shortage existed into the 1950s, which is why the Culver-Nassau line only ran to Kings Highway in rush hours, supplemented by el car shuttles between 9th Ave and Stillwell, and the West End only ran to Bay Parkway, supplemented by el car shuttles between there and Stillwell. |
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| (1480604) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jul 9 11:55:17 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by BMT Standard on Mon Jul 9 09:52:59 2018. I bought a photo at a NY Div meeting years back, of an el train coming around the turn into the Culver tracks. I wondered, what year was this?Then, in the background I noticed a large ad for Frozen Orange juice (a name brand) on one of the buildings just south (?) of the terminal's ROW immediate approach. I figured, this must be during the 1950s, as I don't think they had frozen orange juice widely available earlier than that. |
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| (1480621) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 9 15:37:59 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Express Rider on Mon Jul 9 11:55:17 2018. El train with gate cars or "C" cars? |
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| (1480626) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 9 16:18:49 2018, in response to BMT El train lengths, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 6 10:55:49 2018. Shown here in the late 20s a pic of a Queens bound 2nd Ave El train coming off the Queensboro Bridge.
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| (1480632) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 9 18:02:48 2018, in response to BMT El train lengths, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jul 6 10:55:49 2018. 3 car set of "C" cars on the Fulton St line just west of Hudson Ave in 1953
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| (1480637) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jul 9 19:18:16 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 9 15:37:59 2018. The el train was gate cars.At another NY Div meeting I did see but didn't buy, a train of C-types stopped at a station on the Culver line (?). Photo was of the first car/unit, pretty much a 3/4 view. There was no ID info., but another person, by closely looking at the backward reflection in the windows, could make out the some of the "Avenue X" platform aign. |
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| (1480638) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jul 9 19:19:13 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 9 18:02:48 2018. Nice, nice photo! |
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| (1480659) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Jul 10 02:54:44 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 9 16:18:49 2018. There must have been situations, especially as late as 1939, where you could have had an out or inbound 2nd ave train, a train of Q's on one of the tracks besides or beneath it, a train of Steinway Lo-Vs om the I.R.T. outbound upper level tracks and a train of Standards, laid up or relaying, out on the tail track east of Queens Plaza.Hopefully, someone, somewhere, photographed such a scene. below: this is as close I could come, Q-types inbound and outbound from Queensboro Plaza, late 1940s: 
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| (1480688) | |
Re: BMT El train lengths |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 10 15:44:12 2018, in response to Re: BMT El train lengths, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 9 16:18:49 2018. Awesome!!! |
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