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Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Apr 11 10:54:35 2018 Tuscarora Almanac – April 11, 1950 – The Book of Last Runs Calgary, Alberta Calgary Electric Railway This is the last day of streetcar service in Calgary, Alberta for thirty one years. Note: Light rail service returned to Calgary on May 25, 1981 with the opening of the C-Train Source: “Canadian Trolleys in Color”, Volume 2 (Morning Sun Books /2008) by Mr. Robert Halperin Tuscarora Almanac – April 11, 1988 – The Book of Wrecks New York City Transit Authority BMT Division Train service over the Williamsburg Bridge is suspended due to structural defects. This effectively isolates the Eastern Section of the BMT from the rest of the system. “J” and “M” trains from Queens will be turned back at Marcy Avenue and Myrtle Avenue. Nine extra trains will be added to the “L” service. The Nassau Street Line in Manhattan will only operate on weekdays from 6 AM to 8 PM. JFK Expresses are increased to eight cars and begin making regular express stops without the extra fare on weekdays. This will continue until June12, 1988 when repairs are complete and service across the bridge is restored. Source: New York Division Bulletin / May 1988 / June 1988 Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 11 18:44:45 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Apr 11 10:54:35 2018. I remember the news story about the Williamsburg Bridge. It said one of the main cables had rusted completely through. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Apr 12 08:44:32 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 11 18:44:45 2018. I don't think it would be standing if that was the case. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Apr 12 09:03:53 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 11 18:44:45 2018. It said one of the main cables had rusted completely through.No. Unlike the Brooklyn Bridge, the main cables were not galvanized. They were and are immersed in an oil bath. To everyone's surprise, these cables have remained in very good condition. What was rusted out were the structural beams that were suspended by these cables. These beams supported the roadways and the tracks. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Apr 12 10:27:38 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Apr 12 09:03:53 2018. One thing I read in NYT articles is they claim the Williamsburg to be the city's oldest steel bridge. Perhaps they meant steel suspension bridge. Or suspension bridge with steel towers.The Washington Bridge has the Williamsburg beat by about 14 or 15 years. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Apr 14 11:05:56 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Apr 11 10:54:35 2018. This would have spurned me if I were at the MTA to build the Myrtle-Brighton Line that would have connected the Franklin Shuttle with what was (and still is) left of the Myrtle Avenue EL as I had previously proposed, with as part of such an eventual lengthening of all stations on the line to 600 feet (though likely closing the Dean Street station as actually happened in 1995). This would have given the Eastern Division a non-Manhattan connection to the rest of the line as needed as well as allow for such a line to become the full-time Brighton local with one of the two lines from Manhattan being a second Brighton local |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Sat Apr 14 11:21:28 2018, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Apr 11 10:54:35 2018. I remember that closure. They used the connection from the Canarsie line to the LIRR Bay Ridge branch to move subway cars to get them to Coney Island Yard via Bush Terminal and SBK.Vader |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 14 14:57:48 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Apr 14 11:05:56 2018. A subway route(s) under Lafayette Ave had been on the drawing board, even before the Dual Contracts of 1913. The thinking was that it would expand the Downtown shopping/business area immediately to the northeast along Lafayette. While I do like the idea of a crosstown subway connection to the Franklin shuttle, that would have meant an express station at Franklin, instead of Nostrand Ave. A last minute change of plans converted Nostrand/Fulton from a local to a bi-level express station. At that time, the master plan for Brooklyn also called for a satellite business district, apart from the downtown area, to be centered at Nostrand/Fulton. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Apr 14 16:00:41 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Apr 12 10:27:38 2018. I think you meant the Brooklyn Bridge?Anyway, strange error by the Times. Unless they were saying that it was the oldest bridge builtin within the unified city. recall, when the Brooklyn Bridge opened, Brooklyn was still a separate city. Still kind of strange, very few of the current readers might remember that (Brooklyn being separate). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Apr 14 16:01:21 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Apr 12 10:27:38 2018. I think you meant the Brooklyn Bridge?Anyway, strange error by the Times. Unless they were saying that it was the oldest bridge builtin within the unified city. recall, when the Brooklyn Bridge opened, Brooklyn was still a separate city. Still kind of strange, very few of the current readers might remember that (Brooklyn being separate). |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 14 16:19:55 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Apr 14 16:00:41 2018. But the Brooklyn Bridge has stone towers. The Williamsburg does not. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 14 16:32:11 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 14 14:57:48 2018. Although very little is documented about it, there were plans for a Bedford Ave subway which is the principal reason why Nostrand was made an express stop instead of Franklin. The unique construction of the station was to facilitate a transfer from the IND Fulton St Line to the Bedford Av Line. Since the original purpose of the IND was to put the BMT (and probably the IRT as well) out of business, there was no reason the facilitate a transfer to a BMT line when a new subway under Bedford Ave would have pretty much siphoned off passengers from the BMT’s Brighton Line and the IRT’s Nostrand Av Line as well. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 15 14:06:29 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Sat Apr 14 16:32:11 2018. It was only a proposal, Randy. It goes back to at least 1922, when the City was still planning the IND subway. Go to the Brooklyn Eagle website, type in "Bedford Ave subway" and read the result for 11 June 1922, page 20A. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 15 15:35:00 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 15 14:06:29 2018. The original plans called for the BRT to run this crosstown subway. But, because of their bankruptcy and feud with Hylan over the 14th St Line extension and the Nassau-Montague tunnels, the line was later modified and built for the City's IND subway. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 15 17:52:26 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 15 14:06:29 2018. It may have been only a proposal, but nevertheless, there were some minor structural provisions made for it in both the Fulton and Crosstown lines although not as extensive as So 4 St or Utica upper. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Apr 16 00:19:58 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Apr 14 16:00:41 2018. No I didn't mean the Brooklyn Bridge. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 16 12:58:55 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Apr 14 16:00:41 2018. Brooklyn was still a separate city when the WillyB was started in 1896. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 16 13:50:18 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Apr 16 00:19:58 2018. IAWTP |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 16 14:06:33 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 15 17:52:26 2018. What were (are) those structural provisions along the Fulton and Crosstown lines that you speak of? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 16 14:34:35 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Q4 on Mon Apr 16 14:06:33 2018. The long, now closed long mezzanine at the N/E of Nostrand Ave station on Fulton was designed to give passengers access to the Bedford Av subway, Although it is now difficult to see due to a lack of RFWs, there is a space above the Fulton St tracks N/O Nostrand that would have accommodated a subway line although unlike Utica, no actual subway infrastructure was built there. As for Crosstown, I never was able to find out specifically what sort of provision was made at Bedford/Nostrand but I seem to recall that Tunnelrat has some info about it. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 16 14:48:08 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 14 16:19:55 2018. But a quick googling indicates the Brooklyn Bridge has always had steel cables.So it all depends how much steel you need the bridge to have. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Apr 16 15:02:51 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 16 14:48:08 2018. That's not what the 1988 article is referring to. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 16 15:45:36 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 16 14:34:35 2018. A tunnel structure is located at the southern end of the Bedford Nostrand station.Sealed off,of course today, but easily accessible back in the day if you knew where to look. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 16 19:56:13 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 16 14:34:35 2018. I believe that the upper level, where the express tracks are, was to have been a full mezzanine for a Nostrand Ave local stop. That mezzanine probably would have connected to this Bedford Ave line, had it been built. If I am not mistaken, there is provision, on the lower level, for the original local tracks on either side of the current ones, had the station been on one level. It would have been a 4 track local station with 2 side platforms, connecting to an upstairs mezzanine. The contractors started to tunnel under Nostrand/Fulton in Feb of 1931. The Brooklyn Eagle has photos of this excavation in its Feb 15th, 1931 edition. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 17 06:04:50 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 14 14:57:48 2018. Very interesting.This, however, would have been the late 1980's-early '90s, meaning of course Franklin Avenue would have remained as is other than the passageway being built as it was in the actual rebuild of the Franklin Avenue Line. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 17 06:05:46 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Apr 14 16:00:41 2018. I know about that. Brooklyn was in fact the 4th largest city in the country by itself at one time. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Apr 17 07:58:14 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 16 19:56:13 2018. Thanks Randyo, Edwards! and Elkeeper. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 15:08:23 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 16 15:45:36 2018. It’s too bad I didn’t know about that when I was a trainmaster since Bed/Nost was in my zone. What is interesting is that there is a complete tunnel structure at Bed/Nost, yet only a space for a tunnel on the Fulton St subway. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 15:10:16 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 16 19:56:13 2018. Is there any documentation as to the original intent of the type of station Nostrand was originally supposed to be? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 17 16:32:01 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 16 14:34:35 2018. re: there is a space above the Fulton St tracks N/O Nostrand that would have accommodated a subway line although unlike Utica, no actual subway infrastructure was built there.A number of years aqo, Larry Furlong (accompanied by a transit employee) arranged to get access, to the closed mezzanine area, as well as the space above the Fulton Street tracks. He told me the same thing - he saw and was able to get into, a large space, but no provisions/ infrastructure for a future subway had been built. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 17 16:42:17 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 16 15:45:36 2018. there was/still is (?) a ramp and tunnel, that dead ends, going north, from the center track at Bedford/Nostrand, that was supposed to be part of the IND 2nd phase (shown on the 1929 map in the NYT), a continuing northeast through Glendale (?), then turning southeast - basically would have served the area, replacing the Myrtle Ave. el north of Broadway.This is not the provision you are referring to correct? Is there yet another tunnel provision south of Bed./Nos. that you were referring to? If so, is there any provision still visible for a third trackway that would have ramped down into this tunnel, or just bellmouths or turnouts? Thank you! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 17 17:05:28 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 16 19:56:13 2018. The problem with Bedford-Nostrand is that Fulton St is very narrow at that point. If they had tried to build a conventional 4 track express station, all on one level, the island platforms between the local and express tracks would have been much too narrow, unless they had condemned private property on either or both sides of the street, which I think they did do at Utica Av. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 17:47:57 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 17 16:32:01 2018. I guess that since the Bedford Av subway was so far down the list of items in the IND Second System (maybe even a “Third System”) the city felt a more complete infrastructure was unnecessary. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 17:51:51 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Express Rider on Tue Apr 17 16:42:17 2018. There probably wouldn’t be any bellmouths since there doesn’t seem to be any indication of the Bedford Av subway connecting to any of the Bkln lines. What is interesting about the Crosstown Line is that the 3 tk subway infrastructure between Bed/Nost and Classon is non continuous. For some unknown reason the tunnel narrows to 2 tks S/O Bed/Nost and widens again at Classon. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 17:54:26 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 17 17:05:28 2018. That is one of the reasons why I think the station was designed as built from the beginning. I recall an article in the ERA Bulletin from the 1960s that described the original plans for the BMT Centre St subway which showed one of the stations on that line was planned to be constructed like Nostrand/Fulton. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Apr 17 20:30:58 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 17 17:05:28 2018. There probably was not enough room for a 4 track local station with side platforms at Nostrand/Fulton. This afternoon, I learned that the upper express tracks and platforms run the width of Fulton St, almost building line to building line. I still wonder why the local tracks are not above the express ones, like on Bergen/Smith Sts? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Apr 18 00:04:00 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by VictorM on Tue Apr 17 17:05:28 2018. Utica avenue station is partially under the street and private property.It was built this way on order to facilitate the Utica avenue subway above it,the transfer ramps,and station. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Apr 18 12:10:41 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Apr 16 19:56:13 2018. I have posted on this many times.dig up my old posts and learn.no,I don`t have the dates. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 18 20:39:39 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 15:10:16 2018. Tunnelrat might have something. Also, he might have something about any Bedford Ave subway work over/under the IND Fulton subway. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 18 20:45:17 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 17:51:51 2018. I would like to know if the western ends of the upper or lower Nostrand/Fulton platforms go anywhere, heading towards Bedford Ave. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Apr 18 23:08:45 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 17:47:57 2018. And maybe for that reason, nothing was entered into the budget for building frastructure at that loaction as with S.4th, Roosevelt upper, Worth st. Connection at (? what IND station again?), Utica, etc. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by K. Trout on Thu Apr 19 00:02:15 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 16 15:45:36 2018. Does this have anything to do with the closed parts of the mezzanine at the Bedford Av exit? There are sealed staircases on the west side of Bedford but IIRC no visible way to get to them from the station. Is there a mezzanine under Bedford Av? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Thu Apr 19 12:18:49 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 18 20:45:17 2018. platforms end where platforms end,period.is this a toughie? the sealed up passageway on the local platform ends at Bedford ave,was supposed to connect to the Bedford ave subway station.brennan mentions this on his site. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 19 14:29:27 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by tunnelrat on Thu Apr 19 12:18:49 2018. The sealed up passageway is at the N/E of the EXPRESS platforms and till it was sealed. it was possible to use it to transfer between the N/B and S/B sides if you walked far enough. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 19 14:43:30 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 19 14:29:27 2018. And the Bedford/Fulton tracks would have been at a lower level? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 19 17:19:43 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 19 14:43:30 2018. No. The space for the subway infrastructure is above the Fulton St Tks. While the upper level platforms continue at the same level into the mezzanine, the express tks dip down to the same level as the lcl tks allowing space above for a subway infrastructure. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by Q4 on Thu Apr 19 18:07:25 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 19 17:19:43 2018. Cool |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Apr 20 14:46:24 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 17 15:10:16 2018. . |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Apr 20 14:50:33 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Apr 18 20:39:39 2018. TUNNELRAT HAS BEEN IN THE EMERGENCY EXIT THATS OVER THE TRACKS AT BEDFORD AVE.ITS A 2 TRACK SUPER STRUCTURE THAT LEADS INTO THE PARTIAL[?] SHELL STATION AT SAID LOCATION. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11 |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Fri Apr 20 14:53:50 2018, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for April 11, posted by K. Trout on Thu Apr 19 00:02:15 2018. there are doors at nostrand ave. that are the passageway to Bedford ave.I,NEVER WALKED IT THOUGH. remember when the passageway was open to the public |
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