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| Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question (1470039) | |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:26:27 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 21 06:51:39 2018. Yup.The issue here is the first segment isn't enough. The line should have been built all the way to Harlem, instead of just being a privilege express. Also,the easiest sections that would definitely been used is the route below 63rd st,where subway service is far and few between. The Water st subway is in the heart of a prime market.. And a fantastic terminal,and headers for a New East River tunnel. doing things backwards is doing things stupid. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:34:03 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 14:58:14 2018. North is under construction,but only the prelims..South Should have been built First,to pull some of the traffic off the QB to the Eastside..and help with the overflow from the ESA. A Queens Blvd train from Houston st will bypass all the conflicts at West Forth st..serve the east side with transfers to most east west lines..and save.riders travel time.. especially those actually living east of Second Ave |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 15:36:52 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:26:27 2018. Now, now, the purpose of puiblic works projects is patronage; any actual benefits for the citizenry is a bonus. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 15:39:53 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:34:03 2018. No disagreement there. I voted for the '68 bond issue. I had a long walk from between A & B to either Astor or 8th St. the hike to Houston from E 7th wasn't much nicer. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Mar 22 15:42:43 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 14:58:14 2018. OK. ppl here seem to know where to find figures about the NYC subway, SO:How much did 3 stops worth of the IRT cost to build? Yeah, there were fewer below-grade utilities, there were also arm-powered shovels, hand-powered drills, and a Sawzall was the new guy hired for grunt work. There was more construction in the '30s, by then NYC was heavily built up. Anyone have cost-per-stop figures for that time? |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:44:45 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 15:36:52 2018. LOL..so true. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 15:59:31 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by italianstallion on Thu Mar 22 15:00:03 2018. People's trips from Queens could vary day to day if they are headed to upper 3rd Avenue.If the E comes first, get off at 53rd & Lex and take the uptown 6 If the F comes first. get off at 63rd & Lex and take the uptown Q. If both the E and F are fucked up, take the M as though it were an E, or the R to 59th & Lex and the 6. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Thu Mar 22 16:06:04 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 14:58:14 2018. Yes, but.It should have been built so as to leave a cleared space to build 3rd and 4th tracks. The old builds made provision for the future, seems like the new people DGAF about that. As it is one problem shuts down the line. When the line is 13 stops rather than 3, that will be an issue. AND The remainder should be 100% paid for by NYC. We spent enough to build the entire line on 3 stops, because we (collective we, not personally) treated the project like a smash'n grab at a jewelry shop. The grifter ethic was so strong that it even after running it up to twice the time and zX the cost, the new section's fire alarms weren't working, the new signals broke the first week, and the power went out due to a single point failure within 2 months of the thing opening. All that, and it averages less than the speed of a running horse. We now have no right to ask for another dime for subway construction. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 16:13:49 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 15:59:31 2018. All of which makes for more rider convenience. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 16:17:00 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Steamdriven on Thu Mar 22 16:06:04 2018. Every body knows this version of the SAS sucks ass...This is Not the line we envisioned at all,but you know what happened. It was Designed this way to soak up money.. Lexington Ave subway was tunneled through the Very same terrian...yet it was holed through...and pushed into the Bronx. What makes this even more of a farce..is the fact it took Ten Years to build... 10 YEARS... There is so much more I can say..but you know as well as I do this line of thinking we see will not stop. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 16:21:39 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Steamdriven on Thu Mar 22 16:06:04 2018. No argument about the s%&* quality at Rolls Royce custom prices, butthat is US culture. Look at the five sidedmoney barbecue in northernVirginia. The larget patronage recipient, Lockheed Martin gets $40 billion a year for their kitty. Does anyone think we taxpayers actually get our moneysworth?Secondly, while I live in Oakland CA, I support Federal spending on public works projects because I believe we are a nation. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Mar 22 16:22:28 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 21 08:48:16 2018. Probably counting 63/Lex-Broadway riders as part of it. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 22 16:28:23 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:34:03 2018. The unfortunate problem with diverting Queens service to the SAS is that Qns Blvd is pretty much operating at capacity now and trains diverted to the SAS would have to be removed from either the 6 or 8 Av trunk lines so passengers headed to points along those lines would suffer a reduction in service. I don’t think there is even sufficient space on the lcl tk between the Ms and the Rs for an additional service for 2 Ave. Had the Queens bypass been built it would have been a different story but without an additional Queens branch line, it would be difficult to accomplish. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 16:44:54 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 16:17:00 2018. True dat. SAS should be a full four track trunk line, no compromises, no BS. The stupid, pseudo express only two track plan was bogus the day it was hatched. As to the five bucks for you,five bucks for me, two bucks for the actual project crap along with the stupid extra deep tunneling, no, it should ll be cut and cover one flight down like the original IRT. Faster from sidewalk to on the train, faster to build, and way less crap to maintain. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 17:02:56 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Mar 22 16:44:54 2018. Exactly. The Lec was built with cut and cover...deep rock tunnels at the same time. Let's face it....the excuses use to build the route was total bullshit. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 22 17:12:52 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by gbs on Mon Mar 19 22:40:48 2018. I've heard it mentioned in the news that the Second Ave line has taken riders directly from the Lex. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 17:35:50 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 22 17:12:52 2018. Any from the parallel buses ? |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 18:42:57 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 22 16:28:23 2018. Correct...So to fix the same problem the TA always knew existed,a route should be built along one of the railroad right of way.. An elevated line along the old Montauk , built to Air train standards.. won't hear the damn thing for miles. Hooks up with the LIRR in Jamaica...at the new platform... with farecontrol at the top MEZZ... |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Mar 22 19:19:29 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by italianstallion on Thu Mar 22 12:02:59 2018. The MTA could have run a shuttle between 57/7 and 63/Lex, when the 63rd St Tunnel was opened for revenue in 1980. They did not need the 2nd Ave extension to accomplish this additional service feature. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Mar 22 19:24:28 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by italianstallion on Thu Mar 22 12:04:05 2018. I've been counting the turnstile daily turnstile exit/entry figures that the MTA provides at http://web.mta.info/developers/turnstile.html. Feel free to use the same source data to show any bias in my calculations. I'd be interested in knowing any calculation mistakes.If you come up with the same totals, where would any bias lie? |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 22 20:44:12 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 17:35:50 2018. Dunno about the bus lines. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Thu Mar 22 21:30:12 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by randyo on Thu Mar 22 16:28:23 2018. Instead we’ll be stuck with a reverse-branched SAS with much more service north of the 63rd St tunnel versus south of it. And they’ll have to build very long, expensive transfer passages where possible. If not, then the current transfer points between the Lex and the 7 and E/M will not see any relief. Without a 63rd St-SAS service, they will be spending billions for a subway that will be forced to run well below capacity below the 63rd St tunnel. That’s not a good thing. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Mar 22 21:37:22 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Mar 22 19:24:28 2018. 1. Exit counts are absolutely meaningless2. You are ignoring 63/Lexington. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by FormerVanWyckBlvdUser on Fri Mar 23 01:46:17 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Steamdriven on Thu Mar 22 16:06:04 2018. All that money just to build a line that has three stations.In contrast, I look at a lot of videos from Network Rail in the UK. They've also spent a lot of British pounds but a whole lot more got done. New lines, upgraded stations and signaling, creating flyovers to replace flat junctions, electrification of a whole bunch of lines so that diesels can be replaced with EMUs. Yes, I know that the regular folk there are complaining about major league fare hikes and whatnot, but literally, it's more bang for your buck. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Mar 23 02:42:37 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by R30A on Thu Mar 22 21:37:22 2018. Um, no. Exits indicate destinations. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 23 07:44:52 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Mar 23 02:42:37 2018. But people who go through exit doors instead of turnstiles are not counted, so exit counts are artificially low. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:29:32 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 18:42:57 2018. True, but try to convince the NIMBYs that it will be relatively noiseless. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:32:00 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by 3-9 on Thu Mar 22 17:12:52 2018. If the news media can’t tell the difference between a M/M (T/O) and C/R then how accurate can the rest of their info be? |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:34:11 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Mar 22 19:19:29 2018. Can’t turn trains back at 63/Lex unless the shuttle is a single track operation on an extended headway which would render it useless for practical purposes. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:42:20 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 23 07:44:52 2018. Not only that, but many people take a different route home from the one they used to go to work especially if they engage in after work socializing. Back when I was attending Queens College, I would sometimes take the E to Ctl for what was then the Q65A bus. Other days I would take the E to Parsons for the Q25/34. Going home, I would sometimes take the Q25/34 to Main St for the Flushing Line or the Q17A to 179 St to get the E home. Usually, I would take the quickest way to get TO school since time was of the essence. The way home was different and would often depend on where I might want to stop on my way home. The same would be true of workers. To work a person has to be someplace at a specific time. After work, the same person might go home by a different way if it is closer to his/her favorite watering hole or restaurant if they eat dinner out. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 23 17:27:53 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:42:20 2018. Exit counts that are lower because people take a different way home are legitimate. But to the extent they are lower because people went through the gates, they cause bad data. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Mar 23 17:52:32 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:42:20 2018. I'm guessing you meant the 17, opposite QC at the Mobil station, the 17A was the one you picked up out by Utopia to go to Korvettes/Gertz/Sterns and finally Macy's and that went all the way out to Little Neck Pkway, now as the similar routed Q30. Lots of times I would take the Jewel Ave Exp Bus QM4 inbound, but either the E/F or 7 and Q65A (now Q64) or 25/34 or 17 home. Anyway, your premise is valid that traffic is not always via the same route. By the way, all the passholders and badges (and turnstile jumpers) might leave by a turnstile and count on exit. The entramce and exit counts will never be 100 % accurate. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Mar 23 20:09:20 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 23 07:44:52 2018. well, you are correct inthe NYCcase. I have been out west too long. BART, and WMATA with their ripoff distance fares require you to 'tag out' so exits are fairly accurate--they only miss fare beaters which BART is particularly upset about.Some bus agencies have body counters so they cantrack ridersboth on and off. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Mar 23 21:34:02 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by randyo on Fri Mar 23 14:34:11 2018. unless the shuttle is a single track operation on an extended headway which would render it useless for practical purposes.Scheduled running time for Q between 57/7 and Lex/63 is 2:30. Add 1 minute for reversing direction. This means round trip and ready for next departure is 7:00. Some people would kill for a 7 minute headway. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Mar 23 21:57:15 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Mar 23 21:34:02 2018. much as it should be easy, getting the crew to reverse ends in 1 minute seems optimistic. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 24 08:10:54 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Mar 23 21:57:15 2018. Load the relief crew at the prior stop. Crews fall back 1 train when they get back to that stop. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 25 00:29:06 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 24 08:10:54 2018. I doubt that the MTA would want to bring in an extra crew on a run that short. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 25 00:30:30 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by pragmatist on Fri Mar 23 17:52:32 2018. It was the 17. After so many years my memory gets as fizzy as my cat. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Mar 25 21:50:19 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Mar 23 21:57:15 2018. The middle tracks at 57/7 were used to terminate Q trains from Brooklyn. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Mon Mar 26 02:13:18 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:26:27 2018. They probably picked north first because it had the most completed sections. In essence, billions to just connect the dots. Imagine the price if it was all new build. |
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Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question |
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Posted by MRW on Fri Mar 30 15:25:57 2018, in response to Re: Second Avenue Subway Ridership Question, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 21 06:51:39 2018. Where are the daily/weekly station turnstile counts posted? Would be interesting to compare Second Ave stats for Tuesday 3/20 (when Lexington line was down for most of AM rush) versus other Tuesdays. |
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