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| (1469990) | |
Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 09:40:57 2018 Today's Chicago Tribune. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 11:20:00 2018, in response to Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 09:40:57 2018. The caption on photo 8 is incorrect, though. That bridge was never used by rapid transit; it was part of the C&NW branch to Navy Pier. It also served the Tribune and Sun-Times printing plants, and, long ago, North Western’s old Wells Street passenger terminal. I believe it was abandoned some time in the 1980’s.The Logan Square and Humboldt Park “L” branches used what’s now called the Paulina Connector to reach the Metropolitan main at Marshfield, and entered the Loop at Van Buren and Wells. The Met had its own four-track bascule bridge( or, rather, two parallel double-track bridges) over the river between Jackson and Van Buren, traces of whose abutments can still be seen. For ten years I worked in the building at 300 S. Wacker, built across the former Met alignment, and could see the remnants from my office window. Alan Follett South San Francisco, CA |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 13:55:07 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 11:20:00 2018. Correct, and the Paulina Connector remained in non-revenue service for years as the sole connection between the West-Northwest Route and the rest of the system for moving cars to the shops in Skokie. Of course, I favor restoring the South Side Rapid Transit to Stony Island, and rebuilding the Humboldt Park Branch, along with many more extensions andnew routes. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 13:56:09 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 11:20:00 2018. What photo 8? |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 13:58:55 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 11:20:00 2018. This might be what the article is talking about? |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Mar 19 14:27:09 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 13:56:09 2018. photo 8?Toggle the upper arrow until you #8. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 14:33:43 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Mar 19 14:27:09 2018. OK. Thank you. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 14:37:25 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Mar 19 14:27:09 2018. OK I found it. Alan Follett is absolutely correct. Good find. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 16:29:02 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 13:58:55 2018. No, the North Water Terminal was a genuine rapid transit stub, built by the Northwestern Elevated and used by CRT and early CTA for rush-hour overflow North Side service. I believe it last saw revenue service in 1949, but remained in place into the Sixties. It extended just two blocks, from Clark Street to the North Side Main at Wells, and never had its own river crossing.Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 16:31:33 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 16:29:02 2018. I know. My first response to you was before I found picture # 8. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Mar 19 17:08:51 2018, in response to Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 09:40:57 2018. It's almost always a stupid decision to abandon a transit line...smh |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Mar 19 17:25:02 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Mar 19 17:08:51 2018. For the most part yes. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 17:26:24 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 16:29:02 2018. I think it wasgone before 1960 as I don't remember it from my explorations of the L as a teen. The Merchandise Mart stub OTOH did last longer. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 18:01:31 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 17:26:24 2018. North Water Terminal /was/ the Merchandise Mart Stub, though it was in place before the Mart was built.Alan Follett South San Francisco, CA |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Mar 19 18:24:36 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 19 18:01:31 2018. right you are and yes it survived a long time. I was somehow thinking you were referingto the stub on Wacker which was removed earler. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 00:47:19 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Mar 19 17:08:51 2018. The only time it makes sense to abandon a transit line is if it’s replaced by something better or at least comparable. The IND Fulton St subway in Bkln is an example although I would have rather seen the BMT’s Fulton St el completely upgraded and 3 tracked for steel cars rather than replaced by the subway. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Mar 20 03:17:06 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 00:47:19 2018. ...and extended to jamaica. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Tue Mar 20 06:22:37 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 00:47:19 2018. For Chicago, the best example of an upgraded replacement is the 1958 closure of the Garfield Park “L” in favor of the Congress median line, today’s Blue Line to Forest Park.The Westchester and Humboldt Park abandonments were pretty clearly a bad idea, and Kenwood arguably so. The Stock Yards branch lost most of its reason for existence as the Yards were phased out. Normal Park was too short to serve any territory not already pretty well served by Englewood. The decision to abandon the easternmost mile of Jackson Park, right after an expensive rebuild of three-quarters of it, was a politically-driven disaster, and served only to prove that misguided NIMBYism is not confined to suburbia. Alan Follett South San Francisco, CA |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 14:21:21 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Tue Mar 20 06:22:37 2018. Freeway median routes are a mixed blessing. Standing on the platform waiting for a train with all of the pollution machines zooming by is not very pleasant, OTOH, the EPD land seizures make ROW acquisition easy.I agree the Stockyards Branch was doomed, though lack of sufficient metal car fleet also drove the abandonments. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Mar 20 15:21:35 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Alan Follett on Tue Mar 20 06:22:37 2018. I would have thought that a recent rebuild would guaranty a route's survival for a while, but there are plenty of examples to prove me sadly wrong... |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 21 12:20:27 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 14:21:21 2018. Walk in business is also harder to get with a median. You are more dependent on feeder buses, which have their own issues with mis-connections. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 21 14:18:14 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 21 12:20:27 2018. Why should walk in businesses be any harder with a median than with either a subway or el structure as long as the stations are properly spaced? |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 21 14:33:30 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 21 14:18:14 2018. Housing tends to be farther from the highway. A subway simply can run right under a boulevard. If the Queens IND ran down the LIE median, it would be harder to access than it is along Queens Blvd. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 21 15:09:53 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Mar 20 14:21:21 2018. Freeway median routes are a mixed blessing. Standing on the platform waiting for a train with all of the pollution machines zooming by is not very pleasant.The Spring Garden Septa EL station is a little unnearving , but a good view of Philadelphia. I could not get the view I wanted, but here it is from a sky view. Spring Garden EL Station |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 21 15:36:21 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 21 15:09:53 2018. IINM that segment was rebuilt since my last time riding the MF which was so long ago they were still running the 'almond joys.' One neighborhood away from me,the Rockridge BART station is similarly between freeway viaducts and the experience is not pleasant. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 21 15:37:25 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 21 14:33:30 2018. correct |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 21 16:17:40 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 21 15:36:21 2018. Thank you! |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 21 16:43:42 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Mar 21 16:17:40 2018. A little better view of the Septa Spring Garden station looking towards Center City Philadelphia.Spring Garden Opened in 1977 Thank you, Jackson Park B Train for your comments. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 06:06:12 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 21 14:33:30 2018. The subway would be easier to access along the LIE median than it would be along Queens Boulevard. The alternative to a median transit line isn’t a line under a boulevard, it’s nothing. So instead of walking over half a highway, or taking a short bus trip, the residents of eastern Queens endure a long bus trip. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 07:15:46 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 06:06:12 2018. You're wrong.Queens Blvd and the LIE are almost perpendicular. Apartment buildings went up along Queens Blvd to serve the subway, and it has much walk in business. LIE is in a different area all together away from where they intersect near Woodhaven Blvd. Building highways often involved tearing down many building in its path. If they are enduring long bus ride, then Queens is short one trunk line. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:57:19 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Joe V on Thu Mar 22 07:15:46 2018. Right.The Queen's Parkway subway trunk would definitely came in handy today. Too bad the MTA stopped it short. In case you're wondering what I'm talking about... the line would have been operating along what is now the LONG Island Expressway to the Nassau County border. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 22 16:32:15 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 22 15:57:19 2018. I.m not exactly sure, but I believe the branch along the LIE was at least partially supposed to be completely underground beneath the service roads of the expwy, one tk under each side. |
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Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Mar 22 20:14:31 2018, in response to Re: Ghost of old Chicago 'L' branches, posted by randyo on Tue Mar 20 00:47:19 2018. True as long as that subway gets built. We all know what happened with the 3rd Ave line and in Bx and how long the Archer Ave subway took after the abandonment of the end of the Jmaica line.The good thing at least with the Fulton El replacement it the subway replacing it was 4 tracks. Side note considering the width of Fulton most of the way its a wonder they even made it 4 track. |
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