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| [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots (1466460) | |
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[PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018 This location should be Boston Post Rd. Two car former Manhattan "el" cars provide service from East 180th St. to the Dyre Ave. Alfred Seibel photo (May 18, 1941)  Manhattan "el" car #1633 in unknown yard waits to be scrapped. Date & photographer unknown.  Composite #2067, also waits to be scrapped in an unknown yard. Will those trucks end up under BMT Q Types ? Date & photographer unknown.  Lo-V's on an unknown line, probably in the Bronx. Look closely, something's going on here. You can see another train in front of this one. Date & photographer unknown.  Leaving the Gun Hill Rd terminus, World's Fair and Lo-v's head toward 149th St. Date & photographer unknown.  Work motors #4155 & #4060 when Lo-V work motors were common place. Can you identify the location ? Date & photographer unknown.  Delivery of new R-17's underneath the BMT Culver "el". Arthur Lonto photo (July 1, 1955) 
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Feb 21 16:58:04 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Thanks for posting, especially the photo of the R-17 delivery. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Dave on Wed Feb 21 17:44:25 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Super! Thanks, Bill. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Wed Feb 21 17:53:32 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. This is just too much! You guys have been posting the most superb old shots that I'm sure many of us have never seen before. Some of these shots even pre-date us older guys.Many many thanx for sharing these great views. jrc |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 21 18:06:02 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Dan on Wed Feb 21 16:58:04 2018. They must have gone via the NY Central from St Louis, not the Pennsy. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 21 18:13:13 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Very nice. Thanks for posting!! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Feb 21 18:46:43 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. lovely. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 19:09:37 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by r17-6599 on Wed Feb 21 17:53:32 2018. Thanks Joe.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Feb 21 19:28:59 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Hello Bill (M)This one is easy -- its the IRT West Farms Line EL and Station at the E.177th Street (at E. Tremont Ave) Local Station, looking along the uptown platform. Taken from against the station railing. The Rooftop utility units for an adjacent tall Housing project is seen above Work Motor Car 4060 - and the beginning of the Station platform canopy is seen to the right of the 3rd car. The south end to almost the middle of this platform has no canopy as it is on the sharp curve. The woods (trees) of Bronx Park East on the high distant hills are seen at top left. I took many photos & some color slides from that platform in the late 1950's thru 1960's Here is a view from a near similar angle -- but close to the N/B platform edge  regards - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Feb 21 19:32:41 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Mahvelous, simply mahvelous.:) |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 19:55:34 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Feb 21 19:28:59 2018. E.177th St, I had a feeling that was it.Is that station now called West Farms Sq ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Feb 21 20:23:50 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Hello Bill (M)Yes, that is Boston Post Road, aka the old US-1, looking due "south" (really S/W) with a northbound Dyre Shuttle of IRT EL Gate Motor Cars. I have an actual print copy of the same photo -- here below;  Of note is that THIS SCENE above shows the recently (in 1940-41) rebuilt supporting structure for the trestle overpass - done by the City of NY. Until 1940 it had a large number of supporting EL COLUMNS all across the then shoulders and roadway. Here BELOW is a 1913 photo from my NYW&B Photo Albums Website looking in the same S/W direction showing the original trestle girders, all those El columns, and original catenary towers and footings.  As part of 1940-41 improvements to and widening of Boston Road,the City of NY jacked up the trestles, removed the many original El columns, and built and installed the three NEW concrete support piers -- with only the center one located in the now widened roadway center. Also, the center area track girders between the new 3 concrete support piers were replaced with NEW longer and deeper new steel plate girders. IN ADDITION, the catenary was still left remaining fully intact from the midnight 12-31-1937 closing of the NYW&B, uo to and when the new "Shuttle Service" line started in May 1941 ! And because there were some civic proposals for implementation of Express Only NYW&B trains from E.180th Street north to White Plains and Pelham -- to operate over the Center 2 express tracks, a new catenary anchor supports were erected on the new deeper girders and new catenary tower & bridge was erected and the wire attached ! I have photos of this 1940-41 rebuilding process in my Album on this part of the line. However, plans to save any NYW&B service ended with WWII and the catenary wire and towers, bridges, were scrapped for the war effort -- including the cat bridges and wire over the Dyre Line Shuttle. The new Support Anchors, one on each of both sides of the 1941 new Boston Road Trestles, still remain to this day ! Regards - Joe F |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Feb 21 20:32:15 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. These are great. Thanks for posting and sharing these photos! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Wed Feb 21 20:33:32 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. wownice photos |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 21 20:38:05 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Thanks, once again, Bill! Gate car #1633 (Barney & Smith- 1910) had been converted into an alcohol car, instead of becoming an MUDC, and was scrapped in June of 1057. Most likely that happened at the Starlight site in the BronxThe Composite car in photo #3, #2067 (St Louis car- 1903), was scrapped in late January or early February of 1950. Given that year, its trucks most likely wound up on a Third Ave el "Q" type. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 21 20:40:33 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 21 20:38:05 2018. 1957, not 1057! |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Feb 22 07:01:05 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Feb 21 20:23:50 2018. Thanks Joe.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Feb 22 07:03:19 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Feb 21 20:38:05 2018. Thank you Elkeeper.Those s l o w composite trucks ! Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 22 08:41:38 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Feb 22 07:03:19 2018. Bill: It was a running joke among railfans in the 1960's that the Q-Types could make 35 MPH going downhill with a good tailwind. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Thu Feb 22 09:06:28 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Fantastic photos here. The unknown Yard you mentioned can be one of two. One poster mentioned the Starlight Site, and I also recall some scrap cars ended up north of Dyre Ave on the abandoned NYWB trackage north of the City line.Vader |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Feb 22 09:18:13 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. Awesome! As soon as I saw the first shot... I immediately was thinking that it has to be where the line crosses over Boston Road. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 22 11:58:32 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 19:55:34 2018. Bill: That's correct. I believe that the full name is "East Tremont Avenue - West Farms Square". This was once the commercial and social center of the village of "West Farms". It was so named because the farms were located to the west of the Bronx River. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Feb 22 13:33:43 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 22 11:58:32 2018. Thanks Larry.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:48:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 22 08:41:38 2018. The composite trucks per se were not rally that slow. After their transfer to the Manhattan els all the Composite trailers were motorized so that Composite trains were all motor cars. In that configuration, the maximum traction trucks of the Composites functioned extremely well. Maximum traction trucks, however do not function with with trailer cars in their consists so when they were installed on the Qs which had a trailer in the middle section, they did not pull as well. That is the reason why when the BXs (3 car steels with a trailer in the middle) were still operating only one BX unit was allowed to be operated in a 6 car train, BXs were not allowed on the Manny B and single BX units were not allowed to be operated in passenger service. Actually, base on the info I read on this forum recently concerning why the Qs trucks were changed, the B of T probably didn't need to change the Qs’ trucks at all. The problem as perceived was that with 2 sets of motor trucks on 2 units coupled together would be too heavy for the Manhattan el structure. However, if the motor trucks were merely move from the #1 to the #2 ends of the Qs that would also have spread the weight out sufficiently to eliminate the problem since 2 sets of motor trucks could never be right next to each other. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:58:12 2018, in response to [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Feb 21 16:38:50 2018. If you look carefully, you will see the metallic appearance of Composite 2067. Most, if not all of the Composites had copper sheathing over the wood sides to make them a bit more fireproof than plain wood. Many of the old time IRT el men I spoke to even referred tom them as “Coppersides.” Although most people would assume that the copper sheathing was removed as a further attempt at weigh reduction, I have seen phots of Composites on the 2 Av El which still had the copper sheathing in place. Another interesting detail about the Composites is the slight inward slope of the carbody side above the lower window line giving the cars an almost curved side appearance. It makes me wonder why a similar inward curve could not have been incorporated in the design of the R-62s and 142s since it would not have affected the cars’ ability to clear the subway tunnel infrastructure. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Feb 22 19:35:01 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:58:12 2018. Yes, I see what you mean. Looks like some copper sheathing is missing by the center door ?What do you make of the fourth photo of two Lo-V consists so close together ? There are passengers on the train, I can see the back of their heads. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 22 19:59:09 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:48:55 2018. Makes you wonder if the BMT standards would have a tad swifter if they had one powered truck and one dummy truck. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:15:31 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Feb 22 19:59:09 2018. That's a distinct possibility, but even the D types had maximum traction trucks also. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:41:57 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Feb 22 19:35:01 2018. There are several possibilities for that 4th photo. The train in front seems to be a short train either 5 or 6 cars. It’s hard to tell from the angle. I tried zooming in as best I could and although zooming in makes the photo a bit fuzzy, it looks like the lower destination sign on the second train reads “South Ferry.” That could possibly make it somewhere on the Jerome Line which ran to So Ferry on weekends in the 1950s. another wrinkle is that the 3rd rail on all 3tks seems to be the 150lb rail that was installed starting in the late 1950s/early 1960s. The brackets supporting the protection boards are not the traditional IRT type that were attached to the rails themselves indicating some sort of 3rd rail replacement had taken place before the photo was taken. The 3rd rail on the Jerome Line would have been changed sometime after the cessation of the Polo Grounds Shuttle since when the shuttle was operating there needed to be the dual 3rd rail to accommodate the modified 3rd rail shoes on the shuttle fleet. The Wh Pl Rd line was in a similar situation after the last of the Manhattan el cars were removed from the 3 Av el. Another possibility is the Pelham Line in the area of Westchester Sq since the area between there and Middletown Rd was completely realigned just after WWII to make access to WSq Yd easier and the 3rd rail in that area would have been replaced. From what I can see of the train in front, at least the rear car appears to have kerosene deck lamps so the photo could have been taken in the early 1950s before battery deck lamps were installed or it could be a Hi-V which never got them. Even though Hi-Vs were not usually used in passenger service on the East Side lines, there were a few kept in all the yards for use in work service especially during the 1950s when they were gradually being withdrawn from service and replaced by Steinways from the Flushing Line. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Feb 23 07:22:39 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:41:57 2018. Thanks for your explanation.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 23 12:51:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 22 18:58:12 2018. I wonder why the inward sloped side windows had never been repeated on any subsequent cars. Made a nice appearance, I think. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 15:18:50 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 23 12:51:17 2018. I’m not sure either and none of the literature on the cars I have offers any explanation. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 23 17:36:41 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Wed Feb 21 19:28:59 2018. Glad U did! Thanx!!!joe r c |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 23 21:34:35 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 23 01:15:31 2018. Is that right? I was under the impression that the two inner trucks were the powered trucks. |
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Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 24 16:01:55 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] IRT Snapshots, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Feb 23 21:34:35 2018. I thought so too, but I read recently that they were max traction trucks. |
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