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| Why can't they turn the heaters on? (1461767) | |
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| (1461767) | |
Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018 Why can't they turn on the heaters on the R62As assigned to the 6 line?Those cars are freezing. Things get worse when they hold in a station with the doors open (I know the R62As don't have the 'partial open' feature that the R142s have but is there a ruke that says they can't close the doors when holding in a station? |
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| (1461771) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jan 10 21:09:57 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. The heat is on. Thermostats are set by car equipment. Yeah, they're cold, but underground the heat will be too much with passengers crowded into cars wearing heavy costs.It's not only on the 6, lines like the A have the same problems. The new techs have better temperature control. Everybody can't have new techs. Unfortunately "yours" were needed for the 7 line CBTC. Your time will come. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jan 10 22:27:56 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. They probably are on, just that the heating system sucks on those particular cars. Even though their older the 32s and 42s have much better heating, I rode an R32 during that steak of cold weather we had and the train was nice and toasty. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jan 10 22:30:16 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Jan 10 21:09:57 2018. So the C/R isn't allowed to reset the 'stat to reflect tunnel or elevated ROW? Lame. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jan 11 08:19:54 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jan 10 22:27:56 2018. The entire radiated heat from the floor with the blowers running from the HVAC to circulate it just doesn't work with doors opening on a local. IMHO |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by LA Scott on Thu Jan 11 08:28:07 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. I don't take the 6 very often, but I hate getting on a train in the winter when the heat is turned up, and I have on my heavy coat.During rush hour it is not often practical to remove and hold your coat on a packed train. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 09:26:02 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. The HVAC system generates hot air in the ceiling plenum, just like it generates cold air there for air conditioning.The hot air in the plenum is supposed to heat the car by moving down into the passenger compartment. For some reason it does not move down as efficiently as the cold air does for air conditioning. Anyone want to speculate why? |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Jace on Thu Jan 11 09:48:57 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 09:26:02 2018. While the R62 HVAC system has overhead heaters, the main source of heat are the electric strip heaters under the seats. My guess is that those cars are pretty lousy with heat loss thanks to all that metal on the inside. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 11 11:05:42 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Jan 10 22:30:16 2018. Allowed??? Him has no environmental controls.Besides I *LIKE* my room at 64 degrees of fairy height. Much warmer than that and I start opening windows. Indeed is -11 outside right now, and I have fans pumping air in. If it gets above zero outside, I'll turn the A/C on again. Of course ten computers running in my office does add to the temperatures in my office. ROAR ROAR |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 11 11:07:22 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jan 10 22:27:56 2018. The 32s and 42s *HAVE* heaters, New Tech has HVAC systems.ROAR |
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| (1461821) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 11:45:27 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Jace on Thu Jan 11 09:48:57 2018. While the R62 HVAC system has overhead heaters, the main source of heat are the electric strip heaters under the seats.No. Those headers are for layups. They will keep the cars from freezing in the yards, without the need to turn on the HVAC. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 11 11:56:53 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 09:26:02 2018. That's a design flaw of great significance. Maybe they didn't graduate 8th grade. |
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| (1461823) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jan 11 11:58:59 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. I was on one from 14th street to Buhre Ave last night and didn't notice it being cold at all. |
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| (1461826) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Jan 11 12:33:54 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 09:26:02 2018. For some reason it does not move down as efficiently as the cold air does for air conditioning. Anyone want to speculate why?Heat rises, cold air falls.:( |
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| (1461832) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 11 13:24:52 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 11 11:05:42 2018. So the waste heat from the 'puters is your heat source. Many of us remember that as trains entered stations there was a palpable blast of hot air from the DB resistor grids. Neither of these facts change the need for trains which run both above and below ground need to have smarter 'stats or C/Rs who pay attention. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by R30A on Thu Jan 11 14:00:27 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Jan 11 11:07:22 2018. Everything has heaters. Everything has HVAC. |
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| (1461836) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Jace on Thu Jan 11 14:20:24 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 11:45:27 2018. Strip heaters are used for both layover heat and for floor level heating, not one or the other. |
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| (1461843) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Jan 11 14:52:49 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Jan 11 11:45:27 2018. >>Those headers are for layups. Funny, then why do my ankles got warm and I'm on the car and it is not in the yard. |
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| (1461845) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 15:00:25 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 11 13:24:52 2018. These days. C/Rs paying attention is of little consequence. In the pre thermostat days, each car had switches that regulated heat according the “points” which could be set by the C/R in the individual cars. The R-1/9s had 4 points of heat and each terminal had heat and ventilation boards by the T/D office which displayed the number of points of heat to be set in cold weather, the number of windows to be opened and whether fans were to be on or off in warm weather. The BMT and IRT’s prewar equipment had to have heat or fans turned on or off in each car whereas the R-1/9s had trainline control of the heat and fans. An old timer from the IRT told me that on the West Farms lines (241 and 180/Bx PK), Heat was kept on lvg the terminals, but enroute as more passengers boarded, the heat was cut off for the time the train was underground. This was accomplished by having plat C/Rs board the trains at Freeman St and assist the C/R and rear guard in cutting out the heat in the individual cars. The theory was that the passengers would generate enough heat to keep themselves warm once the train got underground and also the cars were already warm enough from the heaters being on to keep the cars warm enough while underground. How it worked N/B was never explained, however. The IRT had a reputation for being a cheap outfit and did what ever it could to save money and cutting back on what it deemed to be unnecessary heat was seen as a money saving measure. |
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| (1461847) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 15:12:20 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. For those of you who remember, the R-16s when they ran on the Jamaica Line also had a reputation for lousy heat which is one of the reasons why in very cold weather, they were often swapped with the steels on the 14 St Line since the poor heating wasn’t as critical on a line that was predominantly underground. Another reason for the swap had to do with the poor performance of the all electric doors on the R-16s during cold weather vs the air/electric doors on the steels. Now the R-12s through 15s on the Flushing line had the exactly same electric door engines as the R-16s but I never heard anything about those cars having similar problems. Getting back to the heat or lack thereof on the R-16s, when the Jamaica Line was through routed down the Brighton Line as the QJ, the R-16s were taken of the Jamaica Line and assigned to other Southern Div lines like the N and RR because of the heat problem. From experience, the TA knew that passengers along the Brighton corridor wielded a lot more political clout than passengers in other areas and would not tolerate the poor heat of the R-16s so it made sure that Brighton Line passengers had cars with the best heat available at the time. |
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| (1461854) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 11 16:07:30 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 15:00:25 2018. and it should be possible to make the same adjustments today--especially with all of the whiz bang electronics on board. |
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| (1461863) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 17:14:15 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 11 16:07:30 2018. Thermostatic control eliminates the need to have the C/R adjust any points of heat. |
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| (1461870) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jan 11 18:34:06 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 17:14:15 2018. How was heat controlled on the BMT standards? I never really noticed when I rode on them, but others have said they were nice and toasty when it got cold. |
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| (1461872) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jan 11 19:28:16 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 15:00:25 2018. "The theory was that the passengers would generate enough heat...I suppose if the passengers are abused enough and made angry enough, that would generate heat. |
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| (1461876) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 11 20:08:20 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 17:14:15 2018. In theory, yes. This thread, however, points to the stats not maintaining a comfortable temp. |
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| (1461904) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 12 07:16:20 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Jace on Thu Jan 11 14:20:24 2018. Why is layover/layup heat necessary? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 12 07:46:42 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 15:00:25 2018. heat to be set in cold weather, the number of windows to be opened and whether fans were to be on or off in warm weather. Rockaway Park - August 21, 2010 
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| (1461911) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 12 09:22:07 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 12 07:16:20 2018. Why is layover/layup heat necessary?Let's assume ambient temperature is below freezing. The interior temperature was well above freezing, when the cars were in service. The air was moist (water vapor), in part due to passengers exhaling. The water vapor will precipitate out in the form of water, as the ambient temperature within the car decreases. The water may settle in critical moving parts door mechanisms. If the water freezes, so do the doors. Therefore, it's advisable to keep car interiors at a temperature well above freezing, when not in service on cold days. The higher the temperature, the less water will condense out of the air. Less water within the car interior will mean less damage to the equipment. |
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| (1461923) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 12 11:42:18 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Jan 11 20:08:20 2018. DEFINE COMFORTABLE....LION thinks that 62 degrees is about purffect for a subway car. ROAR |
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| (1461929) | |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 12 12:41:55 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 12 11:42:18 2018. I would say 68 which Kodak and others defined as room temperature over a century ago. Am I comfortable a few degrees cooler? Yes, but I amonly one. |
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| (1461933) | |
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Posted by BMRR on Fri Jan 12 13:19:13 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 12 07:46:42 2018. I Just mentioned that type of sign in the interior lights topic.Thanks Bill |
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| (1461950) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 12 16:19:02 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by BMRR on Fri Jan 12 13:19:13 2018. I Just mentioned that type of sign in the interior lights topic.Thanks Bill You're welcome. Any of these signs still around ? Bill Newkirk |
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| (1461952) | |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jan 12 16:21:36 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 12 11:42:18 2018. LION thinks that 62 degrees is about purffect for a subway car.That's because you have fur. lol Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 12 16:23:43 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jan 11 18:34:06 2018. Similarly to the R-1/9s except that there was no trainline control. Heat, fans and lights had to be turned on and off and set car by car. |
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| (1461981) | |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Jan 12 18:39:01 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 12 11:42:18 2018. ...on trains to Mane Street??:)MEOW |
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| (1461990) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 12 19:46:32 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 12 16:23:43 2018. They had to add electric portion pins for multiple unit door control, correct? |
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| (1462008) | |
Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 12 23:04:42 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jan 12 19:46:32 2018. No pins were added to the slides (electric portions). A 9 point jumper receptacle was added beneath the drawhead to carry the MUDC circuits. That was when and why the BMT developed the hammerhead brake handles that many of the old time railfans are familiar with on the BMT prior to the Chrystie St merger when the steels were being phased out and there were no longer jumpers that had to be hammered in. Based on a film that was produced by the BRT circa 1918, it seems that the BMT used the standard open top brake handle as was used on the IRT, the IND and other systems using ME-23 and ME-30 brake valves. IRT M/M would tap the jumpers on the Hi-Vs and Lo-Vs with the back end of the brake handles. To avoid having the back ends of the brake handles flattened by hammering in the jumpers, the BMT developed a brake handle that could also be specifically used to hammer the jumpers in. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Jan 13 00:34:29 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 12 11:42:18 2018. Not entirely wrong - A/C is usually blasting any time it's over 75 outside, at least during rush hours. Gets a bit toasty when you're shoulder to shoulder with fellow commuters :) |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Jan 13 07:52:52 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 12 09:22:07 2018. Trains are stored in the yards with lights and HVAC off. |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Jan 13 07:53:45 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. Try riding in a car that does *not* have an operating cab in it. See if there's a noticeable improvement. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Sat Jan 13 09:25:29 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 11 15:00:25 2018. How did the concept of manually turning in points of heat on work in conjunction with the "R1-10 momentary switch" stickers placed on conductors boards such as Jay Street southbound to turn on and Euclid north off? Is that where the heat was actually turned on or off by train line and was that the rule before the R10s had P.A. systems installed? |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Jan 13 11:34:55 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by G1Ravage on Sat Jan 13 07:53:45 2018. I have and there isn't.Why should there be a difference? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 13 16:10:34 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by BLE-NIMX on Sat Jan 13 09:25:29 2018. I’m really not sure how that came about. Over the years different TA management made decisions supposedly based on some sort of research. When I was a C/R on the BMT I was mostly in the Southern Div except for the brief period when I worked platform at Broad St and except for the Culver and possibly Fkln shuttles, all my trains had thermostatic control so the heat/fan switch was left on all the time. Pre Chrystie, the IND probably did have some sort of formula for when the heat and fans were supposed to be cut in or out and I suspect the crews were familiar enough with those locations that they didn’t need any additional info posted. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 14 12:00:42 2018, in response to Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 10 20:42:27 2018. Global warming has to come from somewhere. |
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Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 14 12:22:13 2018, in response to Re: Why can't they turn the heaters on?, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 14 12:00:42 2018. Especially since it's not coming from outside. |
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