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| (1458710) | |
Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by ModelRider on Mon Dec 18 01:43:15 2017 Anyone know when the Canarsie yard shifted from its original location at East 102nd to its present alignment next to the Rockaway Parkway ROW?NYC GIS narrows the time somewhere between 1951 and 1996. |
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| (1458711) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 02:29:35 2017, in response to Canarsie Yard Move, posted by ModelRider on Mon Dec 18 01:43:15 2017. The original yard at Canarsie was at an approximately 90 degree angle to the line and was referred to as “AY.” The present yard which was initially smaller was called the “Dump” because it was built on landfill from garbage that was deposited there from the BMT garbage pickup trains. Years ago the garbage trains laid up on tk 1 in Ay and deposited the trash on the Rocky Pky side. As the land was filled in, tk 1 was gradually moved over and as service expanded, the BMT decided to put an additional yd there which became known as the dump and tk 1 AY now became tk 1 dump and the lowest tk number in AY was tk 2. I never found out what the BMT and its successors did with the garbage once the new yard was completed but both the Eastern and Southern Division pickups continued to lay up on tk 2 AY until the entire yd was reconfigured in late 1968. I would assume that continued depositing of trash in the area was what allowed the dump to be expanded so that AY was no longer needed and by the fall of 1968, all 14 St Line trains laid up to the dump and the new area was renamed simply “Rockaway Pky Yd.” From what the old timers told me the dump yd existed long before unification so that would mean pre 1940 but I only have the word of the old timers who are no longer around. The interlockings at the yard and in R/P station itself were the last 2 manual interlocking plans left on the NYCTS and circa 1960, the single Xover S/O E105 St was made into a diamond Xover and the switches immediately N/O R/P removed and the station tower decommissioned with the yd tower handling both the mainline and the yd switches. Actually only the switches from the mainline to the yd were tower controlled, the rest of the switches in the yd being hand thrown. In conjunction with the realignment of the yds at Canarsie, a new mini lever machine, home built by the NYCTA, was built and installed in a new tower in the station which now controlled the switches and the tower in the yd was demolished although the switches in the yd itself remained hand thrown till the ENY master tower was placed into operation. Although I’m not sure of the exact date, before I retired from the TA in 1997, the yard had been further expanded to allow some layups from the J Line to be stored there and a car wash was also installed there as well. |
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| (1458712) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 06:29:46 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 02:29:35 2017. Thanks for the detailed history, Randy.Do you recall that the TA's Transit magazine had an article about AY yard called something like "Wooden Cars and Iron Men"? I especially remember the Canarsie mosquitos. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1458719) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 07:16:09 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 02:29:35 2017. That was to sub for an R-16 that was wrecked with a collision to an A-B. Two experimentals looking at each other at Canarsie yard, date unknown. 
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| (1458725) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 18 08:17:46 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 07:16:09 2017. Bill: The unit that was modified to run with the R-16's was 8010. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1458734) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 08:32:13 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 07:16:09 2017. When did the Bluebirds get scrapped ?When did the R16 lose a fight with a Standard ? |
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| (1458790) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by P.Opus on Mon Dec 18 13:36:15 2017, in response to Canarsie Yard Move, posted by ModelRider on Mon Dec 18 01:43:15 2017. Historicaerials.com narrows it down a little further - present in 1966, gone by 1980 |
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| (1458805) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by ModelRider on Mon Dec 18 14:29:37 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 02:29:35 2017. Thanks Randy!This is why I ask questions here. Wouldn't get such a detailed answer anywhere else. |
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| (1458806) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 14:53:33 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 02:29:35 2017. Do you know when they built that tail track on what used to be Turnbull Ave.? |
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| (1458813) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 15:06:15 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by P.Opus on Mon Dec 18 13:36:15 2017. Read my post - present in 1966 gone by 1968. |
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| (1458814) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 15:09:59 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 14:53:33 2017. I’m not sure, but it still hadn’t been there as late as 1970 which cause me a lot of grief whenever I was assigned as the T/D at Canarsie. There was no Yd/Mast for the yard so the terminal T/D had to basically run both the yard and the terminal and some of the drilling had to be done on one or the other of the mainline tracks which caused the road to back up. |
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| (1458816) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 15:16:37 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 18 08:17:46 2017. Bill: The unit that was modified to run with the R-16's was 8010.Larry, RedbirdR33 Thanks Larry, then that's a full set of 11's. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1458817) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Dec 18 15:21:28 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 02:29:35 2017. Great info! Wonder why they moved the yard? Based on your description it seems no reverse move was required to get to the yard from either direction. No room for expansion possibly?'a car wash was also installed there as well.' Whats interesting the car wash in Rockaway Parkway yard's the only one where the wash track end in a block change ends and back out. |
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| (1458818) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 15:26:02 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Dec 18 15:21:28 2017. IIRC the tracks in the "new" yard could be much longer than in the "old" yard and more of them. |
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| (1458826) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 18 15:37:07 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 14:53:33 2017. Do you know when they built that tail track on what used to be Turnbull Ave.? 1990. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1458829) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 15:40:46 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 08:32:13 2017. #6494 - Rear-ended by a BMT Standard; pushed against bumping block at Broad St., 9/26/1957. Good end of 6494 used to repair R-27 #8217 (www.nycsubway.org).   That's #8217 with the R-16 front. The edge where the turtle back roof meets the front is rounded on the R-16. The edge is sharp on the R-27.  Line: BMT Sea Beach Line...Location: 8th Avenue... Route: N...Car: R-27 (St. Louis, 1960) 8217... Collection of: David Pirmann...Date: 5/2/1964...from nycsubway.org |
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| (1458832) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 15:52:17 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 15:40:46 2017. OMG. Never imagined it was that bad. That Standard meant business.I take it the 8217 picked another fight with a Standard ? For some reason, I thought the R27 that got the R16 end also got its round -windowed storm door. I guess not, though there was at least one other that had one on the blind end. |
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| (1458836) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 16:04:14 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 15:52:17 2017. I take it the 8217 picked another fight with a Standard ?In accident at Coney Island Yard with BMT Standard #2761. Car repaired and returned to service by using end of R-16 #6494 (nycsubway.org) For some reason, I thought the R27 that got the R16 end also got its round -windowed storm door. I guess not, though there was at least one other that had one on the blind end. Yes, a blind end of an R-27 had an R-16 storm door, probably from #6494. I remember an R-27/30 or R-32 that had an R-42 storm door on the blind end. I was in that car at West 8th St when I noticed the larger storm door glass. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1458838) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 16:09:26 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 18 15:37:07 2017. Thanks Larry! |
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| (1458841) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by murray1575 on Mon Dec 18 16:38:37 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 16:04:14 2017. There was also an R10 which got an R16 storm door after being involved in a wreck. |
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| (1458843) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 16:49:39 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 15:16:37 2017. Not quite a full set. Maximum length trains on the BMT pre Chrystie was 8 cars and the normal consist on the 14 St Line was 6 cars of either steels or R types. When the Multis were the principal equipment on the line, the normal train length was 2 Multi units. There were 2 rush hour intervals which were listed on the timetables as 8 car steels but normally ran as 3 unit Multi consists. 2 Multi units were slightly sorted than 6 car trains of steels and a 3 unit Multi train was the same length as 8 steels. When the R-11s ran as a solid train they ran as a 6 car consist the way the R-16s or R-10s would run. |
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| (1458844) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 16:53:22 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Dec 18 15:21:28 2017. Even with the old yard, trains still had to go into E105 St and change ends to access it. As for the car wash being the only one you have to back in and out of, I believe the wash in Concourse Yd is also a single track that has to be backed out of and If I recall at the entrance of the wash track there is a spring switch for the trains to come out on a separate track. |
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| (1458845) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 16:54:54 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by murray1575 on Mon Dec 18 16:38:37 2017. There was also an R10 which got an R16 storm door after being involved in a wreck.#3047 and IIRC another R-10 had an R-16 storm door. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1458846) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 16:56:58 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 16:04:14 2017. The R-27 got an R-10 storm door that was left over from somewhere as well as an R-10 cab door. Why the cab door from the good end of 6494 was not used I don’t know unless it was used on another damaged car. |
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| (1458848) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Dec 18 17:02:04 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 16:53:22 2017. Interesting wonder why a reverse move was needed if the yard was 90 degrees from the tracks.Concourse yard you go over the spring switch and come back out on a seperate track. Carnasie yard a train has to go back out through the car wash again. |
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| (1458849) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Mon Dec 18 17:03:07 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 15:26:02 2017. Yeah thats what I figured probably a lot like East NY yd (tcks not holding full length trains) |
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| (1458867) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 18 18:43:04 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 15:40:46 2017. This is why you NEVER wanted to pick a fight with a BMT standard. They had steel and lots of it. |
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| (1458873) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 19:26:02 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 16:49:39 2017. When the R-11s ran as a solid train they ran as a 6 car consist the way the R-16s or R-10s would run.That's what I meant to say, solid train of R-11's. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1458882) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 19:47:53 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 18 18:43:04 2017. They weren't that heavy a car either, but just very solid, like an Erie Stillwell coach. |
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| (1458888) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 18 20:06:17 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 19:26:02 2017. Bill: I think that the only time that all ten R-11 could have run together was when they were assigned to the E and F in the early fifties. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1458920) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Dec 18 23:15:04 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 19:26:02 2017. I heard that these were the future cars for the SAS. |
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| (1458921) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Dec 18 23:54:59 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 16:54:54 2017. I remember the A division oddities, where three R26s (one of 7772-7773 and 7778-7779?) had R21/22 storm doors (with functioning window!). One of those even had a twofer of R22 door and pre-1979 front route roll.What's surprising and mildly annoying is it appears no photos of this survived on nycsubway.org, despite it lasting to the late 90s... |
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| (1458927) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Dec 19 02:59:23 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Dec 18 23:15:04 2017. Wouldn't that have been great had it all worked out?!!!! |
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| (1458928) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 05:39:39 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Dec 18 23:54:59 2017. Here's a few of the IRT oddities:R26 7773 (R21/22 doors at both ends) R26 7821 & R28 7875 (R21/22 door at front end) |
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| (1458931) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Dec 19 06:26:39 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 05:39:39 2017. Thanks! Brings back memories...I also remember the oddity of R29 8660 having R62 style bars instead of straps... |
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| (1458932) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 06:42:25 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Dec 19 06:26:39 2017. You're welcome!By the way, it was 7821 with the pre-1979 roll sign! I remember one T/O at Dyre Avenue back in 1999 attempting to changing the roll sign from a circle 5 to a diamond, only to discover there was none! He found a yellow 6 route instead. Left it on the gray 5! |
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| (1458933) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Bzuck on Tue Dec 19 07:55:08 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Dec 18 23:15:04 2017. R-11 were supposed to be the future cars for 2nd Avenue. Than it was R-44. Now we see R-160. |
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| (1458940) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Tue Dec 19 09:32:30 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bzuck on Tue Dec 19 07:55:08 2017. Don't forget the R-46 was also supposed to be under 2nd running 80 MPH. |
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| (1458967) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Dec 19 11:58:27 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 05:39:39 2017. Any idea why the doors were changed out?Was it original doors were damaged, and only R21/22 spares were available. |
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| (1458979) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Dec 19 12:50:57 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Dec 19 02:59:23 2017. The bond issue money was there to build it in the 1950's. However, the $$$ were impounded to pay for the needs of the existing lines, neglected since the end of WWII. A real 4 track SAS, instead of a glorified Broadway Subway spur! |
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| (1458981) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 13:37:44 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Dec 19 11:58:27 2017. Probably from leftover spares used for those cars during general overhaul (GOH). |
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| (1458988) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Dec 19 14:31:45 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 06:42:25 2017. I remember that unit as well- but I never made a note of its number..I didn't realize there was only 1- I figured there'd have been a few stragglers with pre-1979 signage. 1977-era "4" and "5" signs also appeared, out in the open an uncovered, on the Battery Place entrances to Bowling Green until circa-2004. They were then covered up by framework for an advertising screen- then re-appeared again in 2012 or so. Those entrances are now closed for post-Sandy strengthening, so I guess now the signs will REALLY be gone... |
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| (1459001) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Dec 19 16:19:53 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 18 19:26:02 2017. BACK IN THE"DAY"
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| (1459007) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 17:02:21 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 18 20:06:17 2017. Not quite. I rode the R-11 on the A sometime around 1950 probably just after its R-10 style storm door window was fitted with the porthole. According to the IND old timers it was usually used as a manned gap train during AM rush hours and was kept on A-5 tk N/O 125 St with a crew and was to be used in the event either an A or D train broke down. Also there is an episode of the 1950s TV show originally called “Man Against Crime” later renamed to “Follow That Man” staring Ralph Bellamy which shows a scene in 207 St Yd with the R-11 laid up there. I’m surprised that it would have been used on any of the Queens lines since at the time only Wash Hts (A and AA) crews were qualified on SMEE equipment. |
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Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 17:03:23 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Dec 19 12:50:57 2017. Not just a 4 tk line, but in certain areas it was supposed to be 6 tk to allow for a super exp service. |
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Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 17:05:41 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Dec 19 16:19:53 2017. Tha must have been taken some time after 1960 since it has been fitted with seal beam headlights which were just being installed on the R-10s and 16s at the time. |
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| (1459026) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 18:23:01 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by mcorivervsaf on Tue Dec 19 06:42:25 2017. There was also a GOHed redbird (I’m not sure what contract #) which had seats and roll sign panels from and R-21/22 but I son’t recall if it was one of the ones with the R-21/22 storm door or not. As for odd roll signs, when the TA first went to colored bullets, on the SMEEs, the route signs were turned to blank and the route bullets installed in the destination sign box. One week I worked the Culver shuttle and happened to have one of the rare R-16s that had Southern Division rollsigns as original equipment. That week my train ran with a ”5/Culver” sign in the route box alongside the “SS." |
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| (1459028) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 19 18:25:30 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Avid Reader on Tue Dec 19 11:58:27 2017. Since the R-12s and 14s were being phased out at the time, It a wonder why R-12 storm doors weren’t used like the way the R-10 storm door was used on 8217. |
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| (1459032) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 19 18:36:20 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 19:47:53 2017. They were damn near indestructible. There's a photo of a semi tractor that broadsided a standard on the Manhattan Bridge and the semi got the worst of it. Front smashed in, the whole bit. The standard? Not a scratch! |
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| (1459034) | |
Re: Canarsie Yard Move |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 19 18:38:14 2017, in response to Re: Canarsie Yard Move, posted by Ian Lennon on Tue Dec 19 09:32:30 2017. And it was originally supposed to be a nonstop run from 34th St. to 125th. |
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