Amtrak Derailment in Washington

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Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017 LINK
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington State
Posted by Bill from Maspeth* on Mon Dec 18 11:37:52 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* .
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by The Silence* on Mon Dec 18 11:43:38 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* It's the first day of operation of the Point Defiance bypass route south of Tacoma. That was the first passenger run to travel on that section.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Peter Rosa* on Mon Dec 18 11:49:39 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* Wow, it looks nasty. And on a new track.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 12:14:01 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* Very very bad news.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Mon Dec 18 12:14:24 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* You would think they would have inspected the track before they sent trains down there.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 12:15:37 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Dec 18 11:49:39 2017.* I wouldn't rule out sabotage.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Avid Reader* on Mon Dec 18 12:17:07 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Dec 18 11:49:39 2017.* Brand spanking new!
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Peter Rosa* on Mon Dec 18 12:20:25 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Dec 18 12:17:07 2017.* Obviously something was very wrong with the new track.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Avid Reader* on Mon Dec 18 12:25:49 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Dec 18 12:17:07 2017.* On FOXNEWS Three to four cars, out of sight in woods, upside down. Several fatalities, One car, located beneath underpass. was "flattened"
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 12:28:27 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by The Silence on Mon Dec 18 11:43:38 2017.* Whose bridge is it? I'm guessing Amtrak doesn't own any operating infrastructure out west?
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Mon Dec 18 12:32:53 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* I used Cascades from Vancouver to Seattle back in September. Not to make light of a serious event, but would anyone know a way for me to know if the subject trainset is the one I was on? Even without knowing it's a 1 out of 7 chance I think.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 12:35:09 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Dec 18 12:14:24 2017.* They were test runs, including Talgos and a test Coast Starlight over the last month or so.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Alan Follett* on Mon Dec 18 12:39:05 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Dec 18 12:17:07 2017.* But they've been running test trains over the line for almost two months. It's odd that this happened on the first revenue run Local TV in San Francisco is being predictably inexact, describing the Talgo as both a commuter train and high-speed rail, almost in the same breath. Alan Follett Hercules, CA
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Mon Dec 18 13:00:19 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 12:28:27 2017.* This one probly was since it was built to bet AMTK off of a slower freight segment.
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by The Silence* on Mon Dec 18 13:03:48 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Dec 18 13:00:19 2017.* Actually, Washington State DOT IINM
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine* on Mon Dec 18 13:11:36 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* Google streetview link to I-5 approach to RR bridge (match to graffiti in news pics) Google maps elevation view of RR curve - It appears to be a straight shot for many miles on approach to this curve.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Mon Dec 18 13:12:25 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Dec 18 12:20:25 2017.* You'd think they'd have sent a test train or two down it.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Jersey Mike* on Mon Dec 18 13:13:51 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Avid Reader on Mon Dec 18 12:25:49 2017.* Talgo equipment has been shown to not hold up so well after some crashed in Spain.
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Mon Dec 18 13:16:18 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by The Silence on Mon Dec 18 11:43:38 2017.* Multiple fatalities. 😨 Is this new rolling stock?
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 13:31:13 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Dec 18 13:16:18 2017.* 20 year old Talgo "Mt Adams". New Siemens Charger engine at front, GE P42 at rear.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 13:36:26 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* Poster on Trainorders.com says: "TV reports say 3 dead, 77 transported to hospitals (some injuries were in highway vehicles.) Amtrak says 70 passengers and 5 crew aboard."
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 13:36:54 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Dec 18 13:13:51 2017.* And the FRA allowed it?
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 13:40:28 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 18 13:11:36 2017.* Graffiti on a new bridge (both sides) suggests security around that bridge is not great.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine* on Mon Dec 18 13:40:58 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 13:36:54 2017.* What in FRA "buffer strength" requirement protects passengers when against rolling off an overpass? Collision posts, anti-climbers don't help either. Corner posts may help.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Dec 18 13:42:18 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 12:15:37 2017.* far more likely engineer error
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine* on Mon Dec 18 13:44:21 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 13:40:28 2017.* I think it's an old bridge, but an old stone parapet at edge was replaced with a steel plate in past few years.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 13:44:35 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 13:36:26 2017.* 6 dead now
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Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Dec 18 13:44:52 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Cascades 501 Derailment in Washington, posted by The Silence on Mon Dec 18 13:03:48 2017.* It is a previous BNSF freight line which was upgraded to get the passenger trains off the main route.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine* on Mon Dec 18 13:45:45 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 18 13:42:18 2017.* I tend to agree, overspeed on approach to unfamiliar curve after a long straight shot. What sort of cab signaling, or even any at all in PNW?
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 13:46:42 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 18 13:42:18 2017.* I saw an overhead picture of entire crash seen. Looks like a PNW version of North Philly/Train 188 without the catenary pole splitting open the Amfleet car. Expect to see more Superliners and/or Amfleet on the Vancouver service from hereon. This Talgo set is junk.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 14:19:37 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 18 13:45:45 2017.* A Malbone Street scenario? Straight shot, restricted curve, engineer inexperienced on new route?
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by orange blossom special* on Mon Dec 18 14:55:12 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* "south of Seattle on a route that had raised safety concerns." We need to nationalize Amtrak, and add more regulations. This greed has got to end!
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Peter Rosa* on Mon Dec 18 14:58:22 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by SLRT on Mon Dec 18 13:40:28 2017.* Graffiti on a new bridge (both sides) suggests security around that bridge is not great. As best I can tell the site is actually on a Native American reservation, so there's probably limited public access to the area. I guess graffiti vandals can get anywhere.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by SLRT* on Mon Dec 18 15:00:22 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Dec 18 14:58:22 2017.* There's an Interstate right there. I don't imagine you'd have a problem pulling your car over and hiking.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by randyo* on Mon Dec 18 15:00:44 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Dec 18 13:12:25 2017.* According to several other posts, they did.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by randyo* on Mon Dec 18 15:11:24 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 18 13:42:18 2017.* Since it is a “new” line wouldn’t it have some sort of overspeed control?
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine* on Mon Dec 18 15:26:27 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 15:11:24 2017.* Quoting Seattle Times: Positive train control equipment, to limit unsafe movements or halt trains before a collision, was part of the huge retrofit, but it’s unclear whether controls were activated Monday at this location.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 15:28:55 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 15:11:24 2017.* PTC was not to be activated until next year. With a 30MPH curve, I would have postponed the re-route until then. This is the 2nd Talgo over-speed derailment this year.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Dec 18 15:31:57 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 18 15:11:24 2017.* I am not sure PTC has been implemented there. I do believe that WA DOT spent money to upgrade rail, ties, ballast, perhaps a second main. The idea was to get off the BNSF freight main which also meant they could add another RT per day bringing the service to 7 IINM. IIRC the Talgo equipment (which I dislike based based on trips betqeen PDX and Eugene) got some srt of FRA waiver in return for running w/ an engine (or ex F40 cabbage) at each end.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Broadway Lion* on Mon Dec 18 15:33:04 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by orange blossom special on Mon Dec 18 14:55:12 2017.* : )-
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Mon Dec 18 15:35:41 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 18 15:26:27 2017.* Thanks for posting that. A good backgound summery.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Dec 18 15:43:30 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 18 15:31:57 2017.* Assuming this is yet another fatal over-speed wreck, with that nasty 30MPH curve on an otherwise 79MPH railroad, the reroute should have waited until next year when PTC got activated. Amtrak and FRA should have learned from Philly and 188, but did not. At least the NEC had ASC/ATC to fall back on. I don't like Talgos either. They rock like boats on jointed rail and over terminal switches. The track quality north of the Canadian border is for shit.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Mon Dec 18 15:59:12 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 18 15:43:30 2017.* Do they have a version of ASCES on this (new) alignment? Newly installed track/first passenger run/Talgo equipment = lots of questions. I wonder if the rails were somehow put out of gauge by this train, or if poorly laid track in general caused this awful tragedy.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Mon Dec 18 16:03:43 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 18 15:31:57 2017.* CNN, NBC both reporting that PIC was not yet installed on the section of track where the derailment occurred. I thought all new passenger rail was mandated to have PTC?
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by italianstallion* on Mon Dec 18 16:04:35 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Fine, Howard, and Fine on Mon Dec 18 15:26:27 2017.* Boy that would be some screw up if someone forgot to activate the PTC for the first day.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Mon Dec 18 17:08:36 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Dec 18 15:59:12 2017.* Maybe the Talgo "tilting" feature may have malfunctioned? I've always wondered how safe/dependable any tilting car is - what if it tilts at the wrong time or fails to tilt at the right time (I've asked myself).
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Mon Dec 18 17:11:55 2017, in response to Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Dec 18 11:49:39 2017.* I for one liked the old route, although the day I rode it there was no stoppage or slowdown due to other traffic. I was thinking I'm glad I got to ride it before it's gone. Now perhaps it will be in (passenger) use indefinitely. If the difference is really less than a quarter-hour I think part of the charm of train service is that you do take the more scenic route though. If it's an all-day excursion on a commuter-oriented route of course, that's different.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by ftgreeneg* on Mon Dec 18 17:13:13 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* RIP to the lives lost.
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Re: Amtrak Derailment in Washington
Posted by New Flyer #857* on Mon Dec 18 17:15:30 2017, in response to Amtrak Derailment in Washington, posted by Bob Andersen on Mon Dec 18 11:24:38 2017.* General question: Was Coast Starlight going to reroute to the new trackage as well?
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