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| (1458378) | |
FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017 I rarely ride trains late at night any more, but last night was an exception. I didn't expect to be out that late. I got caught up in Fastrack. As I got off at 49 Street, I quickly glanced at the flyer with a bold headline which said "No overnight service at this station." I figured since I won't be out past midnight it, it wouldn't affect me so I didn't read the rest of the flyer. How was I to know that the MTA now considers 9:30 PM as "overnight service"?Also, it was not only 49 Street that was closed, but the entire Broadway Line. So the heading was doubly misleading. I ended up returning to the station at 11 PM. Not bothering to read all the small print, I figured I would just walk to Times Square and pick up the Q there, since I knew the B doesn't run after 10:30 and didn't want to make that long transfer at Barclay Center from the D. So at Times Square I read the poster and figured out what was going on. But, all I had to do was to walk one block to Rockefeller Center to get the Q. I would have done that if the words in big print said. "Broadway Line closed after 9:30 PM." And below it said, (Q) operating on 6 Ave. No N or R in Manhattan." Then more details below in smaller print. That would have been much more clearer than what was done. So I take the 2 from Tines Square and get on a jam packed Q at Atlantic at 11:15 PM and didn't get a seat until Beverley Road. So why should anyone wonder why some prefer to drive? You shouldn't have to ride as if it were rush hour, when it is nearly midnight. And the "brains" at RPA actually think you could close the system at night. That single Q train would have required 20 buses. Then when I had to change for the bus shortly before midnight, BusTime said the next bus was 1 1/2 miles or 9 minutes away. So I decided to walk. Luckily I was able to catch the bus at the next stop two minutes later. It obviously wasn't a mile and a half away. When I told this to the driver who somehow knew me, responded "you of all people should no not to believe BusTime or anything the MTA tells you. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 16:00:33 2017, in response to FastTrack nonsense., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017. And you of all people, a transit expert, should have been aware that FastTrack now starts at 9:30 or 10. This was announced some time ago, and, I believe, discussed on this forum. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 16:00:36 2017, in response to FastTrack nonsense., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017. And you of all people, a transit expert, should have been aware that FastTrack now starts at 9:30 or 10. This was announced some time ago, and, I believe, discussed on this forum. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 16:13:38 2017, in response to FastTrack nonsense., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017. First off: I think closing the subway at night is unworkable simply for operational reasons. That said, here's a devil's advocate argument on the rest:When the entire system closes at the same time, people learn to work around that. This *does* significantly reduce economic activity for the city involved, though. You wouldn't need 20 buses for each Q train; you would need 0 buses, because there would be no expectation of a way home after ~12:30 AM. Uber/Taxis would be quite in demand the first few weeks, until people simply decide it's not worth the hassle. Business establishments would either close early or schedule shifts that completely span the closed time (say, a midnight-6AM shift) due to employees needing to travel while the trains are still running. Patrons will go home earlier, and essentially NYC would cease to be the city that never sleeps. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 16:14:27 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 15 16:00:36 2017. I somehow didn't know it from this forum. But I saw a FastTrack notice and actually read it, and it said no service after 9:30 PM, and so I knew. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 16:16:11 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 16:13:38 2017. IAWTP. |
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| (1458399) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 15 16:18:14 2017, in response to FastTrack nonsense., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017. Yeah, Bustime still needs work. In addition to missing buses (I also caught a bus that didn't register on Bustime, apparently after it started its run), it also doesn't show a bus' endpoint. This is important if the line has different endpoints and aren't distinguished as different routes. And to keep it subway-related, the new train indicators for B division aren't too great either - they've been flaky about how long until the next train, or showing trains that aren't there. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 16:27:36 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 15 16:18:14 2017. hey've been flaky about how long until the next train, or showing trains that aren't thereI thought I was imagining things; on the Broadway line I've seen R trains vanish from the board. The displays also seem to get confused when trains are running on alternate tracks - the northbound 34th/6th one kept pointing to the express track for the D, when it would be coming in on the local track (and at that spot it is impossible to switch). I thought the system, while "off the shelf", was still more precise than this. This can't be that hard: -They have transponders on the tracks and trains -The one on the train tells the one on the track what it is -This should handle reroutes smoothly - if there are no switches between the last communication, point the arrow to the track it will come in on. If the train *could* switch back to normal, have a -- where the arrow is while the arriving track is unknown. Once passing the last switch, then show the arrow. |
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| (1458407) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 16:41:53 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 15 16:18:14 2017. Most of the time lately that I've ridden the NRQW, the clocks have been very accurate. But one Saturday they went completely haywire for no obvious reason. For many minutes, there was a Q coming in 0 minutes, and then it suddenly was coming in 8 minutes. After that, it actually came in 4 minutes. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Dec 15 17:01:55 2017, in response to FastTrack nonsense., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017. You walked from 49th St. to Times Square AND rode the 2 from there to Atlantic Ave., all in 15 minutes? I don't think so. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 17:18:15 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 16:41:53 2017. It seems that WMATA isn’t much better with its countdown clocks. The countdown clocks not only indicate the next train but also the number of cars in the consist. When I was in SC last year I waited at the Union Station stop of the Red Line hoping to catch a train of the new 7000s which only operate in 8 car consists as opposed to the older cars which operate as 6 car trains. I never got a chance to ride a 7000 since even though the annunciator indicated an 8 car train a 6 car train of the older cars showed up. The times weren’t all that accurate either. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 17:29:07 2017, in response to FastTrack nonsense., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Dec 15 15:35:21 2017. I don’t know if it will work for you, but I use a different method of tracking a bus I’m waiting for. I go on to the entire route, which shows the location of all the buses on the line and which auto refreshes every 60 sec. It’s almost like watching a subway model board in a signal tower. I then track the progress of the bus as it approaches my stop. I have occasionally experienced buses showing up even if they aren't indicated on the Bustime app and I haven’t been able to figure out why it happens. I have also experienced busses showing a few stops away and the simply disappearing but for the most part, I find that tracking the bus along the route is better than following the number of minutes away it supposed to be. As fo the operator saying not to trust Bustime or anything the MTA says, the Bustime app is basically a GPS and while there may be occasional glitches like the ones I mentioned, I found it pretty accurate, at least the way I use it. |
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| (1458419) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Dec 15 18:37:51 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 16:27:36 2017. I think the technology can work given the lower cost, but it just needs to have a few things worked out. For example, at Kings Highway northbound on the Brighton, the express (B) is said to be coming in "2 min" as it is passing Avenue U. That obviously needs to be changed to "1 min" as it is practically approaching Kings Hwy at that point. It always jumps from 2 down to 0 as it enters Kings Hwy. Iron out similar wrinkles and the system's not that bad.Those "on the go" kiosks in stations, however, should have all train arrival info removed from them - they are practically always wrong or messed up. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 15 18:46:15 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 17:29:07 2017. I have occasionally experienced buses showing up even if they aren't indicated on the Bustime app and I haven’t been able to figure out why it happens.The trackers rely on the bus operator to turn on the the transponder at the first stop and turn it off after the last. A lot of buses appear that are motionless before the first stop because the operator did not turn off the transponder. A lot of buses never appear because the operator did not turn on the transponder. |
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| (1458424) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 19:01:26 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 15 18:46:15 2017. I though the transponder turned on automatically when the operator set the route and destination signs. |
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| (1458426) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 19:18:40 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Dec 15 18:37:51 2017. It always jumps from 2 down to 0 as it enters Kings Hwy.The northbound #4 approaching Union Square has jumped down from 2 minutes to 0 minutes just about when it comes into view for many years now. I think that's as good as it gets. |
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| (1458440) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Dec 15 20:14:49 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by AlM on Fri Dec 15 19:18:40 2017. A couple of thoughts.1. the train position measurement unit is: stopped at a particular station; in transit to the next station and incoming to the next station (when the IRT signs turn orange). 2. measurements are taken every 30 seconds. So, any data would be at least 30 seconds old. However, most systems download the data once per minute. This makes the data between 60 and 90 seconds old. 3. the display unit precision is in minutes. 4. updated schedules are bundled with train position data. Schedules are quantified to the nearest half minute (with the exception of the L-Train). 5. The IRT feed schedules do not distinguish between arrival and departure times. The L-Train schedules 15 seconds dwell time for each stop. 6. There are 8 separate feeds that have to be polled for the entire system. (Probably 9, when the #7 Train becomes operational.) The format for each of the feeds are not consistent. 7. If there are diversions, the trip id can change making tracking virtually impossible. Sometimes the trip id is mangled without any diversions. 8. The MTA was supposed to archive previous feeds on a daily basis. That stopped about two years ago. A private individual started archiving the feed and made the data available. However, that stopped in June of this year. That's why my AWOL report is MIA. I tried to collect the data directly from the MTA's master feed. However, I don't have the bandwidth or a machine I can dedicate to simply collecting the data. I've started developing a cloud based app to duplicate the previous archived feed. It's a new experience for me, so there's a learning curve. I hope to finish the archive retrieval soon, if I can muster the determination. |
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| (1458461) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Dec 16 04:22:22 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by randyo on Fri Dec 15 17:29:07 2017. I use Bus-Time to note that "the bus is coming." The number of "minutes away" is a best guess but it is better to be at the bus time.On Staten Island, when either the S40 or S44 says that it is a half-mile away, or 1 or 2 miles away - depending upon the time of day determines whether one has RUN at break-neck speed for the bus stop, or take a leisurely walk. During the late evening or nights, or early mornings on a weekend any indication that the bus is 1 or 2 miles away means it is time to get to the bus stop. An indication that the bus is 2-minutes away or a half-mile could easily mean that one has missed the bus. The buses do move quickly on Staten Island. RUSH HOURS - an indication that the bus is a half-mile, 1 or 2 miles away means a leisurely walk to the bus stop. ---- On the subways - the time clocks are simply a suggestion of when the train will arrive. There was a recent newspaper article - that on the letter lines - the train time indicators are a "best guess" about the train since it left its last stop. Of course this is except for the L-train. Any notice that the train is 2-minutes away simply means "stay on the platform - there's a train coming." ---- Remember the days when "we" simply happy to KNOW that a train is actually coming soon! That way we could stop "rubber necking" - looking down the tracks or up the street for service? Remember when the tracks would creak well before a train approached? That was before the welded rails. ---- Last Saturday, Mom and I attempted a trip to the mall using the S40 bus that involved a transfer to another bus. We had just missed the 10:30am bus out of the ferry and the next bus was supposed to be 11am bus out of the ferry. We live a few stops away from the ferry so "tracking the buses on street" is not that hard. The 11am bus never arrived - as in it never left the ferry. The Bus-Time app that I used simply indicated that the next bus was the 11:30am after it finished it current in-coming trip to the ferry and would turn around for an out-bound trip. The next day, Sunday, Mom and I were on Forest Avenue with a lot of other shoppers waiting for a bus at 10:47am S48 bus that never arrived - leaving everyone waiting close to 30 minutes for the next bus on a freezing morning. There was an electronic bus time post that simply and repeatedly indicated when pressed that there was "No Information" about the next bus, and to try again later. ---- If one is at 49th Street and Seventh Avenue (the Times Square area) and claims to be a transit fan how could they not know that the #1 50th Street station is just up the block on Broadway? Why is a walk down to 42nd Street-Times Square "required?" Plus at many of the N-W-R-Q train stations this week there were posted signs right outside the steps to the stations. I don't understand. Mike |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 06:39:48 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Dec 15 17:01:55 2017. Well, there is a flavor of "Every bite was like poison, and what small portions they gave you" to his post. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Dec 16 09:51:16 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Dec 15 18:37:51 2017. Those "on the go" kiosks in stations, however, should have all train arrival info removed from them - they are practically always wrong or messed up.Yes, I noticed that before the new "countdown clocks" were installed. At a minimum, change the software so that the kiosks display the same arrival info as the countdown clocks. |
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| (1458492) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 16 11:02:13 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 15 16:13:38 2017. In the end, though, in order to maintain anything, it has to be unavailable at some time or another. The real solution is to have sufficient redundancy so that closing one thing doesn't leave people hanging. And if the city has to sleep sometimes, there's no law saying that the city has to be awake all the time. I actually enjoy travelling through small towns in the Midwest where everything is dead after dark (as long as my car doesn't break down). |
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| (1458496) | |
Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 11:22:55 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Dec 16 11:02:13 2017. where everything is dead after darkAfter dark? I needed a non-prescription pharmacy item in Green River, Utah (which is not just a village; it's the biggest thing for 50 miles, and it's on an Interstate) on a Sunday. Nope. The town supermarket has a little pharmacy, and the whole supermarket is closed for about 36 hours straight. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Dec 16 12:25:03 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 11:22:55 2017. When I, earlier this year, saw a Starbucks in Downtown Portland, Oregon closed all weekend, both Saturday and Sunday, I was stunned! I've heard that Sunday mornings in that area are desolate, but I was surprised that the owner/manager didn't think it worth opening at all on weekends. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 19:15:14 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 11:22:55 2017. Not even a convenience store at a 24 hour truck stop ? |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Dec 16 19:29:44 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 16 19:15:14 2017. Yes, there are several of those. I wanted an Ace bandage because I sprained my ankle. Not highly specialized but beyond convenience store inventory. |
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Re: FastTrack nonsense. |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 16 20:22:47 2017, in response to Re: FastTrack nonsense., posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Dec 15 18:37:51 2017. For example, at Kings Highway northbound on the Brighton, the express (B) is said to be coming in "2 min" as it is passing Avenue U. That obviously needs to be changed to "1 min" as it is practically approaching Kings Hwy at that point. It always jumps from 2 down to 0 as it enters Kings Hwy. Iron out similar wrinkles and the system's not that bad.Another example: At Roosevelt Avenue, any northbound local train at 65th Street is said to be 3 minutes away, and stays that way until the train is arriving at Roosevelt. |
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