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| SIRT ME-1 Roster (1451289) | |
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| (1451289) | |
SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017 I have made a few updates to the roster. Most of you have seen this before but it might be of interest to the newer guysTuscarora Dispatch No. 10 Staten Island Rapid Transit Railway Company Equipment Class ME-1 90 motor cars numbered 300-389 built in 1925. 10 trailer cars numbered 500-509 built in 1926. In 1927 a fire at Tottenville destroyed five motor cars; 319,358,376,378,382. Following the fire five trailer cars were converted to motor cars; 502 to 390 505 to 391 506 to 392 507 to 393 509 to 394 The SIRT fleet was now composed of 90 motor cars and five trailer cars. June 25, 1946 – a fire at the Saint George Terminal eight motor cars; 307,313,316,322,333,351,377,390. The SIRT fleet was now composed of 82 motor cars and five trailer cars. In 1948 two motor cars were destroyed in a derailment at South Beach; 323,363. On March 31, 1953 SIRT ceased passenger operation on the Arlington (North Shore) Line and the South Beach Line. I 1953 and 1954 25 motor cars and the five remaining trailer cars were sold to the New York City Transit Authority. (See below) The SIRT fleet was now composed of 55 motor cars. April 5, 1962 – seven motor cars were destroyed in a fire at the Clifton Shops; 306,311,318,326,338,372,379. The SIRT fleet was now composed of 48 motor cars. These cars remained in service until replaced by the ME-2’s (read R-44) in 1973. The MTA took over operation of SIRT in 1971 creating the Staten Island Rapid Transit Operating Authority (SIRTOA) At that time ownership of the ME-1’s was transferred to the New York City Transit Authority. 45 or the remaining cars where scrapped. Three cars survived. 366 at the Seashore Trolley Museum, 388 at Shoreline Trolley Museum (Branford) and 353 at the Travis Yard on Staten Island. Car 353 was burned at sometime around 2005 or 2006. If anyone has the correct date please let me know. Cars Transferred to the NYCTA in 1953 and 1954. 25 motor cars and the five remaining trailer cars. The motor cars were renumbered as follows. 2900 x 391 2901 x 349 2902 x 341 2903 x 309 2904 x 329 2905 x 344 2906 x 373 2907 x 301 2908 x 305 2909 x 387 2910 x 336 2911 x 364 2912 x 383 2913 x 362 2914 x 342 2915 x 394 x 509 2916 x 339 2917 x 357 2918 x 300 2919 x 310 2920 x 340 2921 x 350 2922 x 345 2923 x 354 2924 x 304 The five trailer cars were all placed in work service they were 500,501,503, 504 and 508. 504 was renumbered 2925. 2900 to 2924 as well as 500 and 503 were on the August 1961 Scrap-list. 501 was reportedly scrapped in August 1973 by mistake. 2925 x 504 was used as a Yard Office in the Fresh Pond Yard. On January 14, 1966 she was struck by Q-Type 1609C and literally thrown of the BMT and pushed down into the open cut of the LIRR Montauk Branch. She was scrapped on or about July 10, 1967. 508 was acquired by the Trolley Museum of New York in 1980 and was used as a Visitor’s Center until a fire in November 1991. She was cut up and removed from the property in the Spring of 1992. Sources: “Staten Island Rapid Transit Railway” (Silver Leaf Publications /1965) by Mr. Paul Matus “Passenger Car Roster of the Staten Island Rapid Transit Co.” (1966) by Mr. Larry Kiss “Street Railway Reporter”, (Trolley Museum of New York Journal), various issues. ERA New York Division Bulletins , various issues. I have tried to be as accurate as possible with this roster. If anyone spots any typos or has any updates let me know and I'll make the corrections. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by HART BUS on Fri Oct 6 11:29:55 2017, in response to SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017. Great job, Larry! |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 6 11:31:04 2017, in response to SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017. Thanks for that, Larry. Valuable and comprehensive.Irony is that, had the SIRT cars on the TA hung around about a year or two longer, they would have been available to the SIRT to bolster their fleet after Clifton Shops. I wonder if there is another fleet that lost so many STEEL cars to fire. 20 cars and 20% of the fleet. |
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| (1451293) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:50:19 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 6 11:31:04 2017. SLRT: Fire did seem to be the bane of the Staten Island Railway. The 1962 Clifton fire was the one that broke the camels back. They were left with only 48 cars which was barely enough to protect the service and left a very small shop margin. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Dan on Fri Oct 6 11:55:03 2017, in response to SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017. Great info as always! The R44SI fleet has now been in service for 44 years, approaching the 48 years of use that the ME-1s had at their retirement. The 75-foor R44SI will be replaced by the 60-foor R211S. No firm specs. Delivery expected by 2020 but no true firm delivery date has been announced. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 6 17:33:18 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Dan on Fri Oct 6 11:55:03 2017. You think these R211S's will be individually coupled cars ? |
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| (1451337) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 6 19:56:40 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:50:19 2017. They needed 45 cars for the evening rush, so they could have only three cars outEven then they only managed by sending reverse expresses back to St. George just for the equipment. Compare to the TA, which pulled an entire class of cars (R44) because they had problems. |
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| (1451366) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Oct 7 08:55:38 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 6 19:56:40 2017. They needed 45 cars for the evening rush, so they could have only three cars outEven then they only managed by sending reverse expresses back to St. George just for the equipment. At one point in the late 60's they had one train that ran non-stop from Tottenville to Saint George in the evening rush with passengers. I know because I rode it and it was a great ride. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Bzuck on Sat Oct 7 09:08:49 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Oct 7 08:55:38 2017. I rode it too. |
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| (1451383) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 7 11:18:51 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Oct 7 08:55:38 2017. Probably a hold over from Perth Amboy ferry service patrons |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 7 12:33:08 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Joe V on Sat Oct 7 11:18:51 2017. No, it was essentially an equipment train that allowed passengers. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Oct 7 12:47:40 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Bzuck on Sat Oct 7 09:08:49 2017. I rode it too. Great minds think alike. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1451433) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Oct 8 10:11:59 2017, in response to SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017. Good lord, these things were combustible. Nearly a quarter of them were destroyed by fire. |
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| (1451438) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Oct 8 11:55:47 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Joe V on Fri Oct 6 17:33:18 2017. I believe so. A new SIR fleet has been promised since at least 2008. I guess it's too late to send over the almost-as-old R46s in the interim.Delivery of the R211S will be a problem as the SIR carfloat was eliminated as part of the SI Ballpark construction. |
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| (1451439) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Oct 8 11:57:48 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Oct 7 08:55:38 2017. Nice. Was your ride during the last days of the grade crossings? |
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| (1451468) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 8 17:37:58 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Dan on Sun Oct 8 11:55:47 2017. The R-44s still manage to make it to CIYd for heavy maintenance. |
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| (1451478) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 8 19:01:51 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by randyo on Sun Oct 8 17:37:58 2017. They float over on giant inner tubes.Can you (or anyone) explain to me why the R44 defect was so serious that they had to pull the entire fleet, but they're okay to serve for many more years in SI? |
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| (1451479) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 8 19:23:38 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 8 19:01:51 2017. In 2010 it was either R44 or R32/42 get scrapped. Lack of congestion pricing, (i.e. lack of 600' C trains) and the M/V route merger meant current and additional 480' trains were needed, inflexible R44's were not. |
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| (1451483) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Oct 8 19:44:06 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 8 19:23:38 2017. Train Dude explained it in detail, but I forget the specifics. I think it had to do with the first 100 cars, and their frame. |
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| (1451484) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 8 19:51:51 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Oct 8 19:44:06 2017. They were defective, but not necessarily the rest. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 8 23:41:35 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 8 19:01:51 2017. It's a shame they were scrapped. Except for the first 64 cars, which had weak frames, the rest could have been kept. As I recall, they had an excellent MDBF (for their age) of 100,000+ miles when they were retired. |
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| (1451542) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Oct 9 00:22:05 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Ian Lennon on Sun Oct 8 19:44:06 2017. Didn't it have something to do with the chemicals used on the anti-graffiti campaign that weakened the frames? |
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| (1451553) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 09:21:31 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 8 23:41:35 2017. And none of this explains to me why the entire "mainland" fleet had to go in hasty fashion but the SI fleet was OK to keep indefinitely. |
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| (1451567) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 9 12:52:40 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Oct 9 00:22:05 2017. Didn't it have something to do with the chemicals used on the anti-graffiti campaign that weakened the frames?The alkaline graffiti wash turned the redbirds into rustbirds ! Bill Newkirk |
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| (1451575) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 9 13:25:27 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 09:21:31 2017. The SI fleet came after the mainland, so none of them were effected by the frame issue.That said, I wonder if the GOH and car renumbering program had something to do with it - they would have had to drill out and re-link all of the sets which had those 64 cars. |
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| (1451598) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 9 16:40:56 2017, in response to SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017. Thanks as always :) |
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| (1451609) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 9 17:13:32 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Dan on Sun Oct 8 11:57:48 2017. Was your ride during the last days of the grade crossings? My first ride on SIRT was in early 62 before they eliminated those grade crossings. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1451612) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 9 18:42:44 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 09:21:31 2017. They had no choice but to retain the SI ones. They are also lightly used.It is quite obvious looking at them their bodies are shot: water-proofing along the edges of the roof, right angle brackets on the tops of the door frames, wrinkly stainless steal siding which could be a sign of frame deterioration. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 19:54:25 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Oct 9 17:13:32 2017. In the winter of '65-'66 the grade crossings at Grant City were being eliminated.
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| (1451628) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 19:58:09 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 9 12:52:40 2017. The R44s didn't have LAHT frames, did they? |
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| (1451646) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Ian Lennon on Tue Oct 10 01:27:34 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 19:58:09 2017. I believe so. Those cars should have never been GOH'd, and scrapped. The money would have been much better spent buying extra 68's, or 68A's. |
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| (1451659) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by northshore on Tue Oct 10 10:13:18 2017, in response to SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 6 11:15:22 2017. SIRTOA was an OPERATING Authority, operating trains over B&O owned ROW. The new R-44 cars had to be built to met FRA specifications. Now that the B&O (and it's successors) no longer own the ROW, will the R-211's no longer have to comply with FRA requirements? |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Bzuck on Tue Oct 10 13:26:57 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by northshore on Tue Oct 10 10:13:18 2017. Are/were the SIRTOA employees “Railroad” employees covered under the railroad retirement board, or they NY municipal employees under the NYS pension system? |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by northshore on Tue Oct 10 16:32:33 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Bzuck on Tue Oct 10 13:26:57 2017. Since they were working for SIRTOA and not the B&O. they were MTA employees under the NYS pension system |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 10 17:48:34 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by northshore on Tue Oct 10 10:13:18 2017. I don't know the answer, but do the SI R44's today have FRA Type II lexan ? |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 10 17:59:37 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by northshore on Tue Oct 10 16:32:33 2017. Although I’m not entirely sure, I would imagine that existing SIRTOA employees were grandfathered into the RR Retirement system. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 10 19:28:57 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by northshore on Tue Oct 10 16:32:33 2017. I think they were under RR retirement in B&O days, which carried over to MTA as another railroad. Having "B" Division management from the TA could not change that. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Handbrake on Wed Oct 11 11:38:26 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 10 19:28:57 2017. Employee pension system at SIR are not part of the NYC Municipal employee pension system AKA: NYCERS. Pension system is either RR Retirement or pension plan similar in concept MaBSTOA, where the public authority is the pension sponsor. The pay scale at SIR is lower than the pay scales at NYCT/MaBSTOA. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Oct 11 11:42:52 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Handbrake on Wed Oct 11 11:38:26 2017. Thanks for the clarification! |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by Bzuck on Wed Oct 11 16:00:56 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Handbrake on Wed Oct 11 11:38:26 2017. Thank you for the explanation. |
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Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 11 16:51:23 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by Handbrake on Wed Oct 11 11:38:26 2017. I’m surprised that the pay scale for SIR is lower than NYCT since being grandfathered from the old B & O days, the pay scale would probably be more comparable to LIRR and M/N. |
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| (1451991) | |
Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 14 20:35:09 2017, in response to Re: SIRT ME-1 Roster, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 11 16:51:23 2017. Not comparable. SIRTOA employees don't have the kind of flout the LIRR and Metro-North have.LIRR and MN aren't civil servants either. Don't know about SIRTOA. |
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