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| Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild (1451499) | |
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| (1451500) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 8 21:16:08 2017, in response to Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by zac on Sun Oct 8 20:53:07 2017. Here's a link from Joe Korner's site |
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| (1451502) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 8 21:41:01 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 8 21:16:08 2017. The link to the diagram showing the proprosed window drawing, of a part of the southbound track arrangement (north* of Dekalb); the trackway that replaced the southbound Myrtle platform, extends north (the bold line), to join both the southbound track from the Loop and Broadway (pre-Chrystie).I was told, during one of my first fantrips, mid 60s, that this trackway continuing north from the track that replaced the Mrytle platform was built, specifically to aid access for the Dekalb reconstruction project and was left in place afterwards. This person (didn't know him) drew a diagram for me, showing this continuing trackway connecting from the southbound Loop track only. Is this trackway still there, and if so, is it used for any revenue service? *I'm not entirely clear about how RR north or south is determined, so the "north/ south" designations here may not be correct. |
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| (1451517) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 8 22:38:40 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 8 21:41:01 2017. I think the track to which you're referring is still there and is used for revenue service: (from Joe Brennan's site) As you can see there are two ways a southbound Q coming off the bridge can access the platform track at DeKalb Av: It can branch right at the first switch (which they almost all do), or it can branch left (the switch used by the N) and then continue straight ahead at the next switch to reach the platform and continue on to the Brighton. That outside track (used by the Q) probably runs along the old Myrtle platform. |
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| (1451543) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 9 00:41:28 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 8 21:41:01 2017. Thanks for the explanation, and inclusion of the map from Brennan's site. |
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| (1451546) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Oct 9 01:39:41 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 8 22:38:40 2017. Speaking of the old Myrtle platform, are there any traces left of the demolished platform? When riding trains through there I can't find any remnants. |
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| (1451550) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by zac on Mon Oct 9 08:07:41 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Oct 9 01:39:41 2017. I was on a train that stopped where the platform used to be and there was a no spitting/smoking sign on the opposite wall. That's the only thing I've ever seen. |
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| (1451554) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 9 09:21:48 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by zac on Mon Oct 9 08:07:41 2017. I was told that the original wall tiles and mosaic tiles are till there, though under layers of dirt/grit of course.It would be a nice historic project for a section of tile and mosaics (if they do still exist), including an entire "Myrtle Avenue" name tablet, to be removed and mounted in the large mezzanine at Dekalb Ave., similar to what was done at Union Sq. with the IRT tile and mosaics taken from an original location; segment from the wall of an original side platform (?) and mounted in the mezzanine above the station. |
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| (1451565) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by subfan on Mon Oct 9 12:35:52 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 9 09:21:48 2017. The original curtain wall between the "local" and "Express" tracks is there, and you can see the tile on it. The location is where the far-right track (generally used by the Q) is where the platform used to be, and where there is now a rising track - either from the north side tracks or from the bypass track (I can't recall now) - is where the local track originally was, such that the tiling ends well above the base of the rising trench. This can be seen out of the left side of the train - I've never seen anything on the right side, where the platform was.subfan |
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| (1451579) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 9 13:56:50 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by subfan on Mon Oct 9 12:35:52 2017. The thing that I found interesting were the switches that allowed trains to/from the Montague tunnel to bypass Dekalb Ave, via the center tracks. |
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| (1451581) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 9 14:02:10 2017, in response to Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by zac on Sun Oct 8 20:53:07 2017. Are there any maps showing the track hookup for the proposed Ashland Place connector? |
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| (1451584) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 14:35:00 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 9 13:56:50 2017. And southbound Culver Expresses used them for just that purpose. |
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| (1451590) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 9 16:09:12 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 14:35:00 2017. I believe N/B Culver expresses also used them. What is also interesting is that prior to rebuilding. Brighton trains could access the bypass in both directions although the S/B connection from the bypass the the Brighton Line was removed first. I could never understand why the connections between the Brighton and the bypass were removed since they could have been retained even with the new configuration S/O the station. |
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| (1451591) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 16:18:01 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 9 16:09:12 2017. The N/B Culver Express used the bypass but went via bridge. |
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| (1451632) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by K. Trout on Mon Oct 9 20:59:57 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Oct 9 14:02:10 2017. The northbound bellmouth is clearly visible on the Brighton track north of Atlantic Ave. At the sharp left curve, look right - there's a tunnel light in the bellmouth itself. Get a rear-facing seat on an R68 on the right side of the train for the best view.From the position of the bellmouth, I assume the northbound track would have joined the Brighton like so:  I'm not sure if the elevation would permit a flyover to the tunnel or bypass tracks, or if a level crossing of the Brighton would be necessary (keeping in mind that at the time, the crossing could also be done north of Dekalb). I've not yet seen a bellmouth for the southbound side. |
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| (1451685) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 10 17:25:17 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 9 16:18:01 2017. I though the the service patterns for the Culver were reversed for the AM and PM rush so that the Culver expresses went via tunnel in the AM and returned via the bridge and did the opposite in the PM. |
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| (1451692) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Oct 10 18:35:42 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 10 17:25:17 2017. No. In later years, AFTER Culver-Nassau no longer ran, there were different am-pm arrangements for the two Bankers services (Brighton and 4th Avenue Expresses).While the Culver-Nassau still ran (until May 1957 or 1959, I think the latter) the rush hour Culver Express mirrored the West End Short Line; by that I mean the Culver Express ran Bridge-Loop-Tunnel and the West End ran Tunnel-Loop-Bridge. BOTH rush hours. During midday, the West End Short Line didn't run and the Culver LOCAL ran to Chambers Street, TUNNEL both ways. |
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| (1451706) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 10 22:00:59 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 9 09:21:48 2017. The tilework of the curtain wall is still there for the most part. |
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| (1451730) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 11 08:59:23 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Tue Oct 10 18:35:42 2017. In all of that, was there also a rush hour Brighton Express - Nassau Loop ? |
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| (1451735) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 10:04:24 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 11 08:59:23 2017. Yes, via Bridge, tunnel to Brooklyn. Before they began running R32s on the Brighton Express, I could tell the morning Bankers' because they used 6 car Standards (vs. 4-unit Triplexes) and had a "bullseye" on the pantographs. The rollsigns said EXPRESS/BROAD STREET EXPRESS/NASSAU STREET. |
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| (1451736) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 10:04:43 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 11 08:59:23 2017. Yes, via Bridge, tunnel to Brooklyn. Before they began running R32s on the Brighton Express, I could tell the morning Bankers' because they used 6 car Standards (vs. 4-unit Triplexes) and had a "bullseye" on the pantographs. The rollsigns said EXPRESS/BROAD STREET and EXPRESS/NASSAU STREET. |
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| (1451737) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 11 11:16:38 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 10:04:24 2017. Imagine if they had to handle these route complexities today. They can't even run the damned "R" train, and as the only Montague service, without fucking up. |
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| (1451752) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 11 15:48:56 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 11 11:16:38 2017. I remember when there were 3 Broadway Expresses over the Manhattan bridge: the N, the Q, and the T. In addition, 3 locals through the Montague tunnel: the QT, the RR, and the TT. Always wondered what kind of headway these trains ran on! |
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| (1451756) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Bzuck on Wed Oct 11 16:09:24 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Oct 11 15:48:56 2017. I believe each line ran on a six minute headway making it a combined two minute headway. It’s amazing the merges worked like clockwork. |
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| (1451758) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 11 16:34:40 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 10:04:43 2017. The ABs with the small roll signs had a “Nassau St” reading. The ABs with the larger roll signs had a “Via Tunnel through Nassau Loop Via Bridge to Bkln” and vice versa with the words “Nassau Loop” in large letters in the middle and the remaining words above and below as appropriate. |
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| (1451769) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Oct 11 18:51:46 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Bzuck on Wed Oct 11 16:09:24 2017. They had their act together in those days. Now you'd think the Three Stooges were manning the tower. |
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| (1451776) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 19:14:01 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Bzuck on Wed Oct 11 16:09:24 2017. Not EXACTLY like clockwork. If things began to bunch up into deKalb, you could have some sloooow crawls over the bridge. |
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| (1451777) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 19:16:27 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 11 16:34:40 2017. I saw those THROUGH signs on the Culver-Nassau and the West End, but not on Brighton. |
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| (1451779) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 19:22:31 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 19:16:27 2017. See this page for how large-sign standards were signed before the IND in 1954. |
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| (1451848) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 13 07:26:29 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 19:22:31 2017. That's great stuff. Interesting to read how the Culver Line was re-signaled in the 1950s. More investment was made in the subway back then than many (me, anyway) had previously known.I suppose Karl Bernstein is the late Karl B who posted on here? I never met him, yet I'm saddened at his loss. |
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| (1451850) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by VictorM on Fri Oct 13 09:18:07 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 13 07:26:29 2017. KarlB was Karl Burkhardt. Interestingly, he also posted on myrecollection.com. |
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| (1451857) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by LA Scott on Fri Oct 13 13:54:40 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Joe V on Wed Oct 11 11:16:38 2017. The R was never great, but has gotten a lot worse since the W started back, especially southbound in the PM. |
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| (1451866) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Fri Oct 13 15:49:35 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by LA Scott on Fri Oct 13 13:54:40 2017. It has? I find that the R - and the Broadway Line in general - seems to be running better since they restored the W and eliminated the weekday N merging in at Prince St and the Q merging in at 34th. The delays on the Broadway lines were insane when that was the service pattern, especially on the R. The only time it wasn’t so bad was when the R ran split services on weekdays while the Montague Tunnel was being repaired. |
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| (1451867) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Oct 13 15:59:49 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Oct 13 07:26:29 2017. The Culver needed to be resignaled since under private operation, many el lines lacked signals on the local tracks except at interlockings. The PSC ordered the privates to install them, but many lines never got them at all before they were demolished and the rest only got them after unification. |
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| (1451869) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Oct 13 16:35:28 2017, in response to Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by zac on Sun Oct 8 20:53:07 2017. Zac: You might wish to consult "The BMT, A Technical and Operational History" by Mr. Alfred E. Fazio (Alfred E. Fazio / 2008). There are several maps on pages 146 to 148 detailing the track changes at DeKalb Avenue. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1451881) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 13 19:56:07 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by SLRT on Wed Oct 11 19:14:01 2017. Still better that today, even with all of the new technology! |
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| (1451882) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 13 20:00:21 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by VictorM on Fri Oct 13 09:18:07 2017. I loved his Recollections! |
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| (1452186) | |
Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Oct 16 14:55:47 2017, in response to Re: Dekalb Avenue track map, pre rebuild, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Oct 13 19:56:07 2017. I agree, especially since routes have been so heavily simplified. |
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