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Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Aug 18 16:19:09 2017 What I found out.1. Septa is getting new low floor articulated trolleys in 2022. I think we already knew this. Woodland Shop can't handle an arctic trolley yet. Also, a lot of street stops will have to be modified for the new low floor trolleys. Septa wants all the trolleys to come out of one location, (Elmwood), so Callowhill will no longer be a trolley district. This will mean a long dead head for the 10 & 15. 2. The Trackless Trolleys will get a mini-GOH. All eyes will be on the Proterras in South Philly, if they work out, Frankford will get Proterras, battery buses are the future, they will phase out wired Trackless Trolleys. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 22:28:27 2017, in response to Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Aug 18 16:19:09 2017. Regarding the potential long deadhead for the 10&15: they should take a page from Melbourne's book and call those runs 10D and 15D (D meaning Depot). Essentially the moves to and from the depot make any stop along the way they happen to pass, and oftentimes will provide people with non-standard commute patterns some relief. In the age of smartphones people can easily figure out scheduled infrequent deviations. |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 19 03:25:21 2017, in response to Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Aug 18 16:19:09 2017. Why five more years for the low-floor trolleys? And that seems like it'll be a bumpy ride on the street trackage of route 10.SEPTA wants all the trolleys to come out of one location That centralization never works, and only leads to more bustitution. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Randyo on Sun Aug 20 00:42:53 2017, in response to Re: SEPTA News, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 19 03:25:21 2017. It seems to work OK in Boston. AFAIK all Green Line routes are out of Reservoir Carhouse. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 11:13:09 2017, in response to Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Aug 18 16:19:09 2017. " battery buses are the future, they will phase out wired Trackless Trolleys."What takes less maintenance? Until they get a good long-lasting battery, I'm always told they take too much to replace them. While replacing a battery in a bus every x years may sound ok. Do you think a government is going to spend the money and run a decent maintenance schedule? Just look at the post office vehicles that are way past their expiration. Secondly, what type of physical plant will they need to recharge the entire SEPTA fleet overnight? This sounds like something from the old days when everyone build their own power plants for large facilities. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 11:13:56 2017, in response to Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Aug 18 16:19:09 2017. " battery buses are the future, they will phase out wired Trackless Trolleys."What takes less maintenance? Until they get a good long-lasting battery, I'm always told they take too much to replace them. While replacing a battery in a bus every x years may sound ok. Do you think a government is going to spend the money and run a decent maintenance schedule? Just look at the post office vehicles that are way past their expiration. Secondly, what type of physical plant will they need to recharge the entire SEPTA fleet overnight? This sounds like something from the old days when everyone build their own power plants for large facilities. |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 20 12:00:07 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 11:13:09 2017. SEPTIC will never replace TTs with battery buses. It's like Volvo saying they're going to have all-electric cars by such-and-such year. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 20 12:09:27 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 11:13:09 2017. Various charging options are available, Two, I think, are quick charge at the end of the line, and overnight depot charging.Our trackless routes, and the two South Philly routes are rather short one way. Route 29 = 3.5 miles Route 59 = 4.1 Route 66 = 6.1 Route 75 = 4.7 Route 79 = 3.0 It looks like the 29 & 79 could run all day with the FC+ model. Which model septa is trying , I do not know. Proterra So we will see how these work out. |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 20 13:16:39 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 20 12:09:27 2017. Well, if they're that short, what's the big deal about the infrastructure for them? More fixing what isn't broken. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 20 17:50:35 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 11:13:09 2017. sometimes, we just have to try several options to find out which works best. god forbid we ever think outside the box. I don't have a clue what the next decade will bring in the way of better batteries, more reliable hydrogen "fuel cells" or something not yet conceived, but I do know that I am on second generation Li-ion battery cordless tools which are lighter weight with more torque than my older ni-cad units which were the fourth iteration since my first in 1980.For comparison, the British standard Whitworth thread/head/nut sizing scheme for bolts became obsolete when we developed better strength lighter weight steel. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 20 18:00:25 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 20 17:50:35 2017. Battery technology has improved remarkably. Energy densities (how much energy can be stored against the size and weight of the storage medium) are pretty impressive. But in certain situations Lead Acid lives on. The truth is, agencies will be criticized for not trying new technology, or employing it too slowly and criticized for embracing it too quickly when the slight hiccup occurs.When I do a battery class (Nt 3 of a 6 night intro to alternative energy) I always talk about cordless tools--pointing out that drills and sawzalls and the like are not recent discoveries, why are today's cordless so much better than yesterdays....the move from Nicad to NiMH to Li-Ion has made that possible |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 20 18:03:03 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Aug 20 17:50:35 2017. Thank you, Jackson Park B Train.I'm a retired mechanical design/draftsman, we always thought "outside the box" :) |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 20 18:04:55 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 20 18:00:25 2017. Thank you, pragmatist IAWTP. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 18:05:50 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Aug 20 12:09:27 2017. My question is not about range, it's about battery wear and tear specifically. When they stop holding the charge.My second one is, I wonder what type of upgrades are needed to charge an entire fleet of buses if they are on battery. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 18:09:41 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 20 18:00:25 2017. But at the same time, is it worth the investment? So far, from what I understand, nothing has as much energy per unit of anything as old fashioned gas...or "diesel".If you're telling me they can put solar panels on the roofs of those old 100 year old depots, and somehow charge the entire fleet. I image the fuel savings are enough to do battery replacement savings. I wouldn't mind seeing that day come. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 20 22:15:08 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 20 18:05:50 2017. Battery "conditioning" and techniques for equalizing cell voltages vary by chemistry. At MTA Bus, we have both sealed lead acid, and lithium ion hybrids. Depending on construction and chemistry, and environmental conditions, batteries can last a very long time.This is a few years old, but is pretty informative: https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/FTA_Report_No._0024.pdft |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 20 23:37:06 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 22:28:27 2017. That is a very good idea, especially if they can be done to access the subway-surface lines (40th and points west) and so forth. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 20 23:42:35 2017, in response to Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Aug 18 16:19:09 2017. I think on the Subway-Surface lines, the low-floor trolleys won't be an issue because the stations are low-platform to begin with. Same for the 101 & 102 in the suburbs. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Aug 21 11:57:39 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 20 22:15:08 2017. Thank you, pragmatist. I hate to see proven ways of transportation go away, but I yield to technology, batteries are the new thing! |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Aug 21 12:11:48 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 20 23:37:06 2017. A long time ago, I took Septa to a Trolley Fan trip at Elmwood district. The last leg of my ride was on Elmwood Ave.,I waited for a Route 36 car, but a Route 10 came first, it was pulling in from it's route on Lancaster Ave. The operator picked me up and we went to 73rd. St. Pull ins and pull outs have to pick you up, I think. It's a long pull in /pull-out for the 10 or 15 from Elmwood district. Closing Callowhill rail, if it happens, will be a disaster for the 10 & 15. :(:( |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 12:25:58 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 22:28:27 2017. No; smartphones don't make those any easier to figure out for their users, who are too busy texting or playing games. And their users would probably say to themselves "Why am I doing this? I'll drive instead". |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 21 12:57:17 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Aug 21 11:57:39 2017. Actually a few weeks ago I was at Penn State/Philly Navy Yard working on an energy storage curriculum project, and one of the things we reviewed was the SEPTA battery storage proposals for rail mass transit. Combining the latest innovations with a proven technology. Technological advances can be implemented thoughtfully and incrementally. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Aug 21 14:10:40 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 21 12:57:17 2017. Thanks! This is going to be interesting! |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 14:17:59 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 21 12:57:17 2017. Why would it take a whole century to have alleged technological advances? |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 21 14:29:23 2017, in response to Re: SEPTA News, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 14:17:59 2017. I don't understand the question, Which advances are you referring to? |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 15:12:10 2017, in response to Re: SEPTA News, posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 21 14:29:23 2017. I was referring to the advances you were referring to. (You referred to them as "innovations".) So far, I don't see any significant advances over the old Baker Electric cars, apart from speed; and the "innovations" appear to generate more waste than the status quo. |
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Re: SEPTA News |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 21 15:16:53 2017, in response to Re: SEPTA News, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 21 15:12:10 2017. The innovation was the combination of the greatly enhanced ability to recapture energy, store it, and use it power good old dependable rail rapid transit. |
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Re: Septa News |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 21 22:57:20 2017, in response to Re: Septa News, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Aug 18 22:28:27 2017. Correct! |
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