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| Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? (1424996) | |
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| (1424996) | |
Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by nh153 on Sun Jan 22 20:48:39 2017 I've read that the 42nd Street Shuttle is part of the city's first successful subway line. It originally went from Lower Manhattan, up today's Lexington Avenue Line to 42nd Street, then crosstown to Times Square, then up the Seventh Avenue Line to the Upper East Side.The 42nd Street Shuttle is only two tracks. Obviously it only needs two tracks as a shuttle. But what happened to the other tracks? The original subway had both local and express tracks. (And what foresight for the early founders to spend extra money for a four-track line, something that wasn't spent on the new Second Avenue Line. It is doomed forever to be Manhattan's only two-track North-South line.) Also I notice on the Lex line, at 34 St., the express tracks dip down below the local tracks going north. Then at 42 St., the express come back up to the same level as the local tracks. Is that related to the original tracks turning west at 42 St.? |
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Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Sun Jan 22 21:15:34 2017, in response to Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by nh153 on Sun Jan 22 20:48:39 2017. It's three tracks, and the other trackway is abandoned. |
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| (1425004) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Jan 22 22:05:26 2017, in response to Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by nh153 on Sun Jan 22 20:48:39 2017. Three of the four original tracks are still in active use on the shuttle. The fourth track is not used and the platforms at both Grand Central and Times Square have been extended over where the fourth track used to be.Going uptown, the express tracks start to dip below the local tracks at the beginning of the 33 St station. To keep the platforms level and closer to the street the local tracks don't dip down until after the station, when they rejoin the express tracks at around 34 St, and they share a deep-bore tunnel until near Grand Central, when the express tracks again dip to go under the old trackway that veered west, while the local track remains on grade, then the express tracks rise again as they enter the (current) Grand Central station. If you ride on the uptown local between 33 and 42 Streets and look out the left side windows as the train nears Grand Central, you can see the old express trackway rise and start to turn left. Until a few years ago there used to be a tower there after the trackway was abandoned. |
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| (1425005) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by andy on Sun Jan 22 22:05:48 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by GojiMet86 on Sun Jan 22 21:15:34 2017. The unused trackway, Track #2, was taken out of service in 1918 when the current shuttle service was established. Platforms were built over Track #2 at both ends. |
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| (1425011) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 22 23:00:44 2017, in response to Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by nh153 on Sun Jan 22 20:48:39 2017. The original 1904 Times Square station WAS A LOCAL STATION where the express tracks by-passed the station. Think of it as similar to the 50th Street on Broadway on the #1.The "downtown local platform" everyone crosses to reach the other platforms of the Times Square/Grand Central Shuttle. The "downtown express track" was turned into a platform - notice the very slim columns along this platform and why those columns are so close to the platform edge. The "uptown express track" ends at a track blockage device and walkway so that riders can access the third platform of the Shuttle. Near the Grand Central end of this track there is a track switch to the original "downtown local track" to allow the shuttle train to be removed and sent to a train repair yard as needed. The "uptown local track and platform" retains many elements of the original station from 1904. If you'll that passageway to this track and platform is removal to allow the shuttle train to be taken to a train repair yard was needed. Hope this helps. Mike |
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| (1425022) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 23 01:33:10 2017, in response to Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by nh153 on Sun Jan 22 20:48:39 2017. The 42nd Street Shuttle is only two tracksSince when? |
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| (1425025) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jan 23 02:52:53 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by gbs on Sun Jan 22 22:05:26 2017. I was shown this tower very briefly during the early 90's by an MTA employee. Was it closed (about what year?) and functions taken over by a master tower? I'm assuming the tower itself still exists? abandoned and sealed up? |
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Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 23 09:59:28 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 23 01:33:10 2017. It is three tracks.Yes, Times Square was a LOCAL station with two platforms against the walls. When the Shuttle was created, it became a 3 track terminal, but the trackway for one of the express tracks became the platform for the other express track. Talk there is of eliminating the third track at TMSQ and making the shuttle a two track operation albeit with longer trains and with gangway doors. LION will believe that when him sees it. BTW: The moon is made of green cheese. ROAR |
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| (1425046) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 23 13:21:28 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 23 09:59:28 2017. Talk there is of eliminating the third track at TMSQ and making the shuttle a two track operation albeit with longer trains and with gangway doorsThey always love to talk about fixing what is not broken, don't they. |
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| (1425069) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Jan 23 16:35:05 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 23 09:59:28 2017. re: The moon is made of green cheese- One small step for Zabar's, one large step for New Yorkers... |
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| (1425083) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 23 18:54:23 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 23 09:59:28 2017. With gangway doors, if they make the train long enough, the train wouldn't even have to move. One would simply walk through the gangway doors from one end of the train to the other to get from one end of the shuttle to the other. The biggest problem is probably union contracts that prohibit ZPTO. |
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| (1425086) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Jan 23 19:23:32 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 23 18:54:23 2017. Haha. |
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Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue Jan 24 08:08:38 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Jan 23 09:59:28 2017. Not just cut back to two tracks but getting rid of the curve at TSQ with 5 car trains (reality one train set, 5 on each track) and once modified go to OPTO.It has been in every 5 year capital plan but has been cut each time from the plan if I recall. |
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| (1425129) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by BMT Standard on Tue Jan 24 12:37:29 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Jan 23 18:54:23 2017. I think that there was a proposal back in the 1960s to replace the shuttle with a moving walkway such as those used in airports. |
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Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Jan 24 13:35:22 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 22 23:00:44 2017. Talk about a botched sentence:"The "uptown local track and platform" retains many elements of the original station from 1904. If you'll that passageway to this track and platform is removal to allow the shuttle train to be taken to a train repair yard was needed." Corrected sentence below: The "uptown local track and platform" retains many elements of the original station from 1904. If you'll NOTICE that the passageway to this track and platform is REMOVE-ABLE to allow the shuttle train to be taken to a train repair yard was needed. Mike |
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Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 24 13:41:11 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Michael549 on Tue Jan 24 13:35:22 2017. Sometimes, auto correct can do more damage thsn good..especially if its a translation. |
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| (1425148) | |
Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 24 13:41:31 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by Michael549 on Tue Jan 24 13:35:22 2017. Sometimes, auto correct can do more damage than good..especially if its a translation. |
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Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jan 25 00:39:47 2017, in response to Re: Why Not 4 Tracks on 42nd St. Shuttle?, posted by BMT Standard on Tue Jan 24 12:37:29 2017. Yes there was. |
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