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| Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions (503663) | |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Nov 26 18:54:49 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 25 15:35:21 2016. I know that those books are hard to come by. |
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| (1417478) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Nov 26 21:07:10 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Nov 26 18:54:49 2016. Trouble is that most of these books are limited production- 1,200 or so. |
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| (1417488) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by zac on Sat Nov 26 22:23:53 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri Nov 25 21:47:44 2016. OK, I'll do it. There is clearly a bellmouth beyond the Euclid station on Pitkin where the tracks curve up to Grant Ave. Where it goes is subject to much speculation. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by zac on Sat Nov 26 22:26:55 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by zac on Sat Nov 26 22:23:53 2016. And further, as the final section of the wiki notes, Pitkin was widened for the 4 track subway, and clearly was widened out past 76th St even though the bellmouth ends well short of there. |
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| (1417502) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 00:04:32 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by italianstallion on Sat Nov 26 11:33:04 2016. Considering that there probably was more likelihood of express service being run on the Jamaica Line, it’s surprising that there was no express style station like Myrtle/Wyckoff built anywhere along the line. A location like Woodhaven Blvd would have been an ideal candidate for such station construction. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 00:21:39 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by zac on Sat Nov 26 22:23:53 2016. It’s not really a bellmouth in the accepted sense of the word but is a full 4 track subway infrastructure. |
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| (1417519) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 08:32:25 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by zac on Sat Nov 26 22:23:53 2016. there is no bellmouth where you say there is.4 layup tracks and a concrete wall at pitkin&elderts lane. |
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| (1417520) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 27 08:42:25 2016, in response to List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Nov 25 11:01:47 2016. Very extensive stuff there, and some very interesting history! |
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| (1417559) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 15:12:38 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 08:32:25 2016. I mentioned that. It is not a bellmouth but a full 4 track subway infrastructure. |
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| (1417563) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Nov 27 15:41:22 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 15:12:38 2016. Are there any mistakes on my list or anything that I left out? |
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| (1417565) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 15:48:11 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Nov 27 15:41:22 2016. there are a few.96st on the @#1 line should read 111st,the 111st stub.when I get a chance I will proofread it and point out what I know is wrong.p.s. great job. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Nov 27 16:16:46 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 15:48:11 2016. Thank you. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 17:10:20 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 15:48:11 2016. The stub just off tk 3 N/O 96 St is almost directly beneath the 103 St station on the #1, so how can it be the 111 St stub? |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by FarRock on Sun Nov 27 19:01:54 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 00:21:39 2016. Yes. 4 tracks that go for about 600-800 pass the switch to K1? A1,3,4, & 2 keep heading to wall behind a bumper block. The most interesting part is dead the signals facing north om A1 as if a train will come from behind the wall. If I ever work there again, I'll try to get pics. |
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| (1417601) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 19:04:19 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 17:10:20 2016. I assumed he got the location wrong,iirc this is the first I,m hearing about a 96st stub,tell me more. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 19:05:55 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by FarRock on Sun Nov 27 19:01:54 2016. pictures have been posted of the 3 homeballs wrapped in canvas. |
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| (1417619) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 27 20:55:30 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 19:04:19 2016. I checked Peter Dougherty's maps and I can't find any stubs there. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Nov 27 21:18:35 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 27 20:55:30 2016. He doesn't list most of them. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Nov 27 22:09:50 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 27 00:04:32 2016. What I don't get is that there is a provision for a 3d track on the Jamaica El from Elderts lane to (then) 168 St. but no structure provisions for any express stations. I speak of the spreading out of the local tracks as they approach an express station with the typical design for two island platforms, typical of contract two El construction express stops. None of that above Jamaica Ave.Did they expect to run expresses from 168 to Cypress Hills back then if a track was installed?? Something dosen't add up. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by FarRock on Mon Nov 28 02:36:32 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 19:05:55 2016. There's an unwrapped automatic just outside the wall facing north, I believe parts were used for other signals. |
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| (1417671) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 14:20:54 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 27 20:55:30 2016. N/O 96 St there is a track space just east of the N/B tk (Tk3) which merges with the N/B tk at the pace where the line begins to curve east across 110 St. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 14:22:39 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 19:04:19 2016. I lived uptown for years and never heard of or saw any sort of spur in the area of either 110 St/Bway or 110 St/Lenox. that could qualify as a “111 St spur." |
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| (1417681) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Nov 28 14:49:02 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 14:22:39 2016. its in an old issue of the bulletin,its known as the 111st.stub.it was a switchback. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 15:36:49 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by FarRock on Sun Nov 27 19:01:54 2016. The trains from “behind the wall” would be coming from the much discussed 76 Street station. |
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| (1417701) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 16:04:57 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Mon Nov 28 14:49:02 2016. As I mentioned before, I lived in upper manhattan and used the Bway LRT regularly and there was never any evidence of a switchback anywhere on the Bway IRT between 96 St and 137 St other that the actual middle track S/O 103 St which is still in use. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Nov 28 19:37:25 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Nov 25 12:27:20 2016. I've done the same thing.As IRTRedbird33 has said, there is an extensive amount of material/ details that need to be read slowly and in-depth. Great job on your research! :) |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Nov 28 20:59:00 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Express Rider on Mon Nov 28 19:37:25 2016. Thank you! |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by zac on Mon Nov 28 21:53:13 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 27 08:32:25 2016. but yet it is a provision for a line that was to continue under Pitkin. That's what the thread title says. Call it a bellmouth or a provision, whatever, it still goes under the list and thread title. Were they built to be layup tracks? Not according to the plans, they were built to continue on. Why not these, other than the constant speculation?Not trying to start a flame war here, it just is what it is. |
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| (1417752) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Nov 28 21:55:52 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Nov 26 21:07:10 2016. I was lucky enough to have returned to NY when the 3 volumes in 1 reissue was published in the early 90s. Some of the pages have come loose from the binding near the center so I'm very careful when I read it.It's always been a "back burner" project of mine, to ask a bindery about re-binding prices (for one book only, probably mega expensive), to have this book rebound with "casewrapping." If I read the binding article correctly, casewrapping mean using the original cover, in the rebinding, rather than rebinding it in a library style cloth cover. It is supposed to be cheaper. |
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| (1417757) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Nov 28 22:11:36 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 14:20:54 2016. Cited in David Rogoff's two part (?) article in the NY Div. Bulletin, abandonded tracks & structures of the IRT. He states it was a layup track that was taken out of service very early (I think he also said tracks removed? can't remember.) |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 28 22:45:08 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by zac on Mon Nov 28 21:53:13 2016. This has been discussed many times, Zac. Before WWII, the plans were to continue the IND under Pitkin Ave, in addition to the current connection to Liberty Ave. However, the water table was deemed too high, similar to the proposed Utica Ave subway, south of Kings Hwy. When construction was resumed after the war, the Pitkin subway extension, past the Liberty Ave connector, was deemed too expensive to build. So, the Pitkin line was connected to Lefferts Blvd, via Liberty Ave. In 1956, the Rockaway connector was built off of the Liberty Ave elevated line. The 4 track tunnel was walled off and the 75th or 76th St shell was sealed up forever. That's it, in a nutshell! |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Nov 29 12:11:48 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 28 16:04:57 2016. randy,i,ve posted on this stub several times over the years,you just picking up on this now? |
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| (1417819) | |
Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 29 15:50:49 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Nov 29 12:11:48 2016. I probably missed it, but in any event, I have no idea what it is you are referring to. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 29 16:33:30 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Express Rider on Mon Nov 28 22:11:36 2016. In all my time living uptown, I never saw any track in that space. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 29 16:40:55 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 28 22:45:08 2016. That’s pretty much it. Interestingly. in the 1948 B of T annual report, the plans fro continuing the subway under Pitkin and connecting it to the LIRR ROW in the vicinity of Aqueduct Race track were still in place, By 1950, a map of proposed new subway lines showed a connection to the LIRR from the soon to be connected Fulton St el structure S/O Rock Blvd and the extension of the subway infrastructure past the bulkhead S/O Euclid had disappeared. The connector off the Liberty Av el was started several years before its 1956 opening and lay there for a few years like the Culver connector at Ditmas. |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Dec 2 09:42:30 2016, in response to Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Nov 28 20:59:00 2016. Union Turnpike:Please e-mail me. I am unable to do so from my computer. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions |
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Posted by Graham on Mon Jan 2 09:41:12 2017, in response to List of New York City Subway Bellmouths and provisions, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Nov 25 11:01:47 2016. Good listing, but not sure if some of the more speculative wording would stand muster as a Wikipedia article. |
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