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| Re: W coming back November 7 (1409825) | |
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| (1410596) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 15:12:17 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 29 14:48:15 2016. Correct, however, NYC did make as many cars compatible as could be reasonably done. |
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| (1410607) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 29 16:15:11 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Jace on Thu Sep 29 15:10:48 2016. Operationally they will be "sub-orphans" - we do not run 9 car trains. |
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| (1410623) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 17:05:17 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Sep 29 14:31:17 2016. If more people used it, they would. Less than 1% of the market isn't a priority sadly. Then you have the "open sores" crowd who will flip off a vendor who offers to do it, but must keep some of the code proprietary because of intellectual property law. I have no problem with that, and that's why I went with BSD over Linux. BSD has no such issues, THANKS FOR THE CODE! :) |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1410624) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 17:07:00 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 29 14:27:45 2016. I predict that Windows will go to a monthly rentier thing and if you miss a payment, kiss your world byebye. I also expect this to happen VERY soon. And I also think that 10 will be the last numbered version as they transition to rentware. |
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| (1410625) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 17:08:33 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 14:28:45 2016. I was under the impression that when they redid the 32's, they might have removed some controls. Only chance I had to peek into a 32 cab after GOH, I was rather disappointed in all the junk they hung in there. |
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| (1410637) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 17:51:07 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 17:08:33 2016. The 32s retained all their C/R controls since when they operate on the C they are set up 4 X 4. That was why they was a problem when they tried to put R-42s there. With the C/R having to operate 5 forward and 3 rearward in both directions and T/Os were instructed to pull to the 10 car mark on an R-42 so that the C/R would be able to use the 10 car board. |
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| (1410640) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 18:03:19 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 17:51:07 2016. Thanks for that. Yeah, first time I saw all the crap they hung in the motorman's cab, that kinda did it for me right there. And that speedometer. REAL motormen could count pillars to know how fast they were going and clear those yellows right in your face. :) |
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| (1410667) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 19:53:43 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 18:03:19 2016. I took the last M/M test that had a qualifying practical which required candidates to indicate the speeds that train was traveling when asked by the examiner. |
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| (1410669) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 19:56:47 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 19:53:43 2016. Paul T. taught me how to do it. :) |
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| (1410670) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Sep 29 20:15:13 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 19:53:43 2016. Even with a speedometer, I say that being able to gauge one's speed without it is still a practical skill for a train operator; it could be malfunctioning. Otherwise, you could pull bloodied train operators from wrecks as they insist, "But the speedometer said I was doing only 15!" |
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| (1410671) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Sep 29 20:25:55 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 13:54:08 2016. The problem is that most high-tech engineering today is done by twenty-year-olds because they are less expensive. When they turn thirty, the cheapskates in management bring in a new crop of twenty-year-olds who are still at the point in their lives when they think that anything older than they are is obsolete and needs to be redone from scratch because they are smarter and more enlightened than the people who went before them. Even if they wanted to build on what was done before them, they don't understand it, so starting fresh is easier. Hence, repeated incompatibility. This is a particular problem with software, but it extends to other forms of engineering too. They'd have us rebuilding the subway tunnels every five years to adjust the clearances or change the track gauge if they could get away with that. "Why does it have to be 1435 mm? That's soooo old-fashioned! Can't we make it 1470? It has so many advantages and it's the new wave..." |
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| (1410673) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 29 20:37:31 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 14:28:45 2016. Just as the R-32s and R-38s were stylistically similar. |
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| (1410674) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 29 20:38:02 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 19:56:47 2016. Do what I do - listen to the gear pitch.:) |
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| (1410675) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 20:45:16 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 29 20:38:02 2016. Yeah, fine for spur gears, not so much for the post war and particularly the electronic chopper sounds. It was an easy art to learn actually, all about timing. |
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| (1410676) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 29 20:45:19 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Sep 29 20:25:55 2016. Talk about repeatedly reinventing the wheel... |
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| (1410677) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 20:46:18 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Sep 29 20:25:55 2016. Heh. PRECISELY! :) |
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| (1410681) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 29 20:50:50 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Jace on Thu Sep 29 15:10:48 2016. Sounds similar to what we have here in Denver. Although the SD100 and SD160 LRVs can and occasionally do operate together, they are kept segregated as much as possible due to software glitches. I've heard the annunciators don't always work in a mixed set and the doors don't always open on a specific car. The SD160s came from the factory with annunciators and electronic signs while the SD100s were retrofitted with both. |
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| (1410682) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Thu Sep 29 20:52:53 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 18:03:19 2016. On half the 68's and some the 32's the speedometers don't work anyway...lol |
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| (1410684) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 20:54:29 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by ftgreeneg on Thu Sep 29 20:52:53 2016. They counted spikes on the ties incorrectly when they were fresh out of the box. :) |
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| (1410693) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Sep 29 21:51:55 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 29 16:15:11 2016. We should, though, for the Eastern division. It would only require an extra 20' of platform at each station. |
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| (1410699) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by BusRider on Thu Sep 29 22:09:10 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 18:03:19 2016. Really count pillars? |
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| (1410702) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 22:24:41 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by BusRider on Thu Sep 29 22:09:10 2016. Yep. And ties. That's how you learned. Once you got used to it, you could feel your speed. |
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| (1410703) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by zac on Thu Sep 29 22:53:55 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 29 08:09:24 2016. Probably not 1965, they were gone by then. The R32s replaced all of the triplexes and remaining standards on the southern division, except the shuttle. They remained on the eastern division until 1969 I think. I rode them on the Canarsie line to Stuy. |
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| (1410753) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by BusRider on Fri Sep 30 08:41:09 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 22:24:41 2016. Interesting, I thought you were joking! |
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| (1410758) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Sep 30 08:52:42 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by BusRider on Fri Sep 30 08:41:09 2016. He doesn't joke. He only lies. |
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| (1410790) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 12:55:08 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Sep 29 20:37:31 2016. Pretty much. The R-38s were supposed to be an extension of the R-32 contract albeit with a few minor design changes. It’s too bad they weren’t also made by Budd since they might still be around if they had been. |
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| (1410791) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 12:59:12 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Sep 29 21:51:55 2016. It probably wouldn’t even require that since an 8 car train of steels is 536 ft and a 9 car train of R-160s is 540 ft. If you are going to spend any money on platform extensions yo might as well go all the way and extend them for 600 ft trains. |
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| (1410795) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Sep 30 13:05:33 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 12:59:12 2016. True. It frustrates me that they haven't done this yet though - if they really are 536' long then 9 cars could be doable today! Buy only 10 car R179s and transfer some Alstom R160 5 car sets over to the East.At the very least, the M and L need the extra car. |
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| (1410797) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 13:11:34 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Sep 30 08:52:42 2016. You can say that inly if and when you take a job with an appropriate transit agency as a train operator and keep it! |
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| (1410798) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Sep 30 13:18:46 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 13:11:34 2016. You can say that inly if and when you take a job with an appropriate transit agency as a train operator and keep it!Completely wrong. One doesn't need to be in a certain job title to know that someone else is wrong. |
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| (1410806) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 30 13:43:45 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by BusRider on Fri Sep 30 08:41:09 2016. Nope. The technique really works. Once assimilated, you can actually use "the force." :) |
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| (1410812) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Sep 30 14:18:00 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Joe V on Thu Sep 29 14:01:32 2016. Same here!! |
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| (1410813) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Sep 30 14:18:21 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 13:54:08 2016. Yeah, I suppose so... |
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| (1410814) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Sep 30 14:18:59 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 14:17:33 2016. +1 |
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| (1410815) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Sep 30 14:23:12 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Thu Sep 29 13:58:59 2016. Yes, I realize that. If the R179s were compatible in revenue service with the R160s, I wouldn't care if they called them R6234s or X Factor Cars.My gripe is that all indications are that they're not compatible. If this turns out to be wrong info, I will be happy. |
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| (1410822) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Fri Sep 30 15:28:52 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by zac on Thu Sep 29 22:53:55 2016. The standards were definitely still on the Astoria Line in 1965. I remember riding one on the West End Express in the summer of '65 which was routed via the center track from Ditmars to fill a gap in the PM rush. What a great surprise.In addition, John Henderson in his book "Gotham Turnstiles" has a photo of a D-type in April 1965 and of a standard in July both on the center track. Granted by 1965 the old car were the exception but they were absolutely still in service to Astoria. |
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| (1410836) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Fri Sep 30 16:53:27 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by zac on Thu Sep 29 22:53:55 2016. You are correct about the Standards being used on the eastern division BMT lines. They ran mostly on the LL (lousy local) which I also rode to Stuy. The last run was on the M (Myrtle-Chambers) in August 1969. Their replacements were R7-9 cars which had been displaced from the IND due to deliveries of new R40 and R42 cars (some of the R42 cars ironically enough still run on the J/Z lines). |
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Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by murray1575 on Fri Sep 30 17:01:58 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 25 13:35:30 2016. There are a lot of R142 cars which get swapped between the 2 and the 5 since they use a lot of the same trackage. It seems that most if not all of the cars on those lines have had new maps installed which include the stations on both lines. Also there are a lot of R142A's on the 4 and 6 which will not be converted to R188 as were many of the cars which currently run on the 7. |
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| (1410845) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 30 17:14:53 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 30 13:43:45 2016. On Elevated lines, was it count the streetlights??:) |
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| (1410849) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 30 17:32:59 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Sep 30 14:18:59 2016. 
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| (1410851) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 30 17:42:58 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Sep 30 17:14:53 2016. Nope. Same deal. And I forgot to add throughout though was the most USEFUL way of determining your speed, namely the axles going across the joints in the rails. The timing between each wheel could also be interpreted as your speed, particularly at interlockings where you really had to keep it under 10, and some at 6 *or else*.And like today's chopper electronics throwing you ear garbage, CWR (Continuous Welded Rail) doesn't help here either except if you happen to be paying attention as you cross the IJ's (Insulated Joints). Been many years for me, forgot about that. :) |
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Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 17:58:57 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Sep 30 13:05:33 2016. The problem with the M is that for some reason Metropolitan Av is the only Eastern Div station I am aware of that never could hold 8 steels. The longest train of steers that could fir at Metro even before the rebuild is 7 and 8 60 footers just barely fit there as well. |
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Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 18:12:02 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Sep 30 14:23:12 2016. The problem with modern technology is that products are often obsolete as soon as they hit the open market. Regardless of the tech advances, the MTA could and should specify that the cars be compatible with R-160s for the sake of fleet flexibility. When PATH GOHed their older fleet, they made the GOH PA-1 through PA-3s fully compatible with the PSA-4s and ran them in mixed trains without a second thought. The MTA dod nothing close even though it could have been done. |
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Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 18:17:37 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by murray1575 on Fri Sep 30 17:01:58 2016. Agreed, but even back in the days of the prewar cars the 7 Av and Lex/Wh Pl Rd expresses also swapped cars regularly. |
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| (1410864) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 30 18:24:06 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by zac on Thu Sep 29 22:53:55 2016. I have seen plenty of photos of Standards on the Brighton Line and Astoria lines dated 1965. The R32 did not kill them all and the R32 was strictly a Southern Division creature (except for Nassau St) until Nov 1967.A friend of mine got stranded on the Brighton line during the Nov 1965 blackout. He says a few Standards were still around then, and he did not mean the Franklyn Shuttle. |
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| (1410866) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 30 18:27:57 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 18:17:37 2016. Prior to the R62, I never saw an R17 on the anywhere except the 4 & 6 trains. |
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| (1410870) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Sep 30 19:00:38 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Sep 29 20:45:16 2016. Very true. Those spur-cut gears were music to my ears; that's what endeared me to those old timers. |
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| (1410872) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Sep 30 19:05:25 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by BusRider on Thu Sep 29 22:09:10 2016. They fly by pretty fast when you get rolling. And if the lead motor didn't have headlights, they'd be silhouettes against the tunnel lights. |
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| (1410876) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Transportation Hub on Fri Sep 30 19:48:30 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Sep 30 19:05:25 2016. It has been six long years. I can't wait for the return of the (W)onderful subway line |
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| (1410879) | |
Re: W coming back November 7 |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Sep 30 20:02:09 2016, in response to Re: W coming back November 7, posted by randyo on Fri Sep 30 12:59:12 2016. Didn't you once say the 5 wooden stations along Fulton Street were cut slightly in length when rebuilt with concrete in the 1980's ?The "Steels" had the end-most set of doors much farther inward in the length of the car than the SMEE's. |
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