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| (1410028) | |
One |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016 Why don't any of the East River tunnels other than 14th have a First Avenue station? Or Second Avenue. |
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| (1410029) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 15:40:56 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. Stockyards? |
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| (1410030) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Sep 25 15:41:44 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. Look at the map of Manhattan. The first station has to be a few blocks inland from the shoreline. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1410031) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 25 15:46:04 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. The tunnels are too deep. By the time the LL gets to 1st Ave, it has already passed A B C and D.ROAR |
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| (1410033) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 15:58:32 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 25 15:46:04 2016. Roosevelt Island. |
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| (1410037) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Sep 25 17:01:31 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. F Line has 2 Ave. |
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| (1410041) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 17:08:45 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by SLRT on Sun Sep 25 17:01:31 2016. Which has an entrance at 1st. |
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| (1410046) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Sep 25 17:16:58 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by SLRT on Sun Sep 25 17:01:31 2016. But like 14 St, that station and also E Bway is farther inland than the tubes uptown. |
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| (1410054) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 17:54:34 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 25 17:16:58 2016. On the other hand, Whitehall Street is closer to the river than any of them.So I still say stockyards. |
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| (1410057) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 18:33:47 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 25 17:16:58 2016. At least Grand Central on the #7 has a 3rd Av exit, though that was post-war. |
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| (1410058) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 18:49:59 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 18:33:47 2016. So do the 53rd Street and 59th Street Lexington Ave stations. And so will 63rd Street, I believe. |
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| (1410062) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Allan on Sun Sep 25 19:19:10 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 17:08:45 2016. You mean 1st Av |
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| (1410066) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 19:33:52 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Sep 25 15:41:44 2016. I don’t agree. The Lexington stations are also pretty deep (including Grand Central on the 7). The First stations would also be pretty deep, but that’s not really an obstacle. The question is why wasn’t it deemed worthwhile? |
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| (1410067) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 19:34:28 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Allan on Sun Sep 25 19:19:10 2016. That is actually a necessary disambiguation. |
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| (1410068) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 19:36:14 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 17:54:34 2016. That explains the Steinway Tubes, but not necessarily 53rd, 60th and 63rd, where I think the land use was the same as now. |
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| (1410069) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Sep 25 20:20:34 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 19:34:28 2016. Yes, the station is officially 2nd Ave, and, of course, has provisions for the fabled Second Avenue Subway, but I rarely used that end, whereas the 1st Ave at 1st St end was my home station when I lived on 7th off A. |
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Re: One |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Sep 25 20:35:08 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by SLRT on Sun Sep 25 17:01:31 2016. Not at 14th Street. |
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| (1410071) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 20:35:54 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 19:36:14 2016. I think of Sutton Place as buildings from the 1920s, and 1 Av in the 50s as white brick buildings from the 1950s. Maybe their predecessors were so disreputable as to not be considered worthy of subway service. Not literally the stockyards but maybe more like shanties than tenements?Pure speculation. Not really sure what was there. |
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Re: One |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Sep 25 21:18:06 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. One of the reasons might have been to attract riders on the 2nd Ave el, which had a station at 14St/1Av. |
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| (1410075) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by piyer on Sun Sep 25 21:34:58 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. My bit of speculation on this is that the 2nd & 3rd Avenue ELs made stations in the area of 1st / 2nd / 3rd Avenues difficult due to having to engineer a station shell around the supports for the elevated structures. It was simply easier to tunnel under them and then build your first station in Manhattan. |
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| (1410077) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 22:05:41 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by piyer on Sun Sep 25 21:34:58 2016. Any stations would have been deep and probably completely underneath the el foundations. |
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Re: One |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Sep 25 22:09:51 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by piyer on Sun Sep 25 21:34:58 2016. In addition to that speculation, since at the time when the subways were built, east side service was covered by the Els & no one had any idea how long the ELs were going to stay up (at the time) or had any vision to have them ripped down & replaced by subways. After all, didn't the City or the Interborough just sign a 999 year lease on the Manhattan ELs??IMO that implies, to me anyway, that someone in high authority assumed the east side ELs would be around awhile,if not as is then but someday be re-built thus no need for any east side subway service of connections. Again, pure speculation. |
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| (1410081) | |
It's the grade |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Sep 25 23:00:16 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. For the same reason the 14th St tunnel has no Ave D station. The tunnels are too steep at those locations to contain a station. If you notice, the tracks all level off prior to the stations. East Broadway (F) is an exception, where the tracks are still rising and the entire platform is on an incline. What is unforgivable is that the TA does not install an Ave A exit at the First Av station and a Second Av exit at the Third Av station. |
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| (1410082) | |
Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 23:25:19 2016, in response to It's the grade, posted by gbs on Sun Sep 25 23:00:16 2016. An avenue a exit is part of the plan for the L train rebuild. |
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Re: One |
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Posted by The Silence on Mon Sep 26 00:03:49 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Sep 25 20:20:34 2016. must...resist...making...reference...joke...can't |
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Re: One |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 26 00:20:32 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by The Silence on Mon Sep 26 00:03:49 2016. having never watched him, why should I start now? threw my TV away in '98. Bad enough the time I waste with this one eyed mistress.I should add that I sometimes lingered watching the nearly constant bocce ball games in the sand pits immediately adjacent the stairs at 1st & 1st. |
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| (1410088) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 26 00:27:14 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 26 00:20:32 2016. You don't need a "TV" anymore. I don't understand why you would emphasize your discarding of your TV when it has nothing to do with a random YouTube video that wouldn't likely play on your pre-1998 model TV. |
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| (1410090) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Sep 26 01:28:41 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Sep 25 22:09:51 2016. In addition to what you have said, I'd also look at the trolley / street-car / bus situation - each of which is simply easier to add as a transportation method. Each of these methods can serve as "feeders" to the elevated or subway train lines.Like the buses today, there are several cross-town bus routes even where there is not a similar cross-town subway route. Mike |
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| (1410091) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:46:21 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 26 00:27:14 2016. IAWTP |
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| (1410092) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Sep 26 02:47:02 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 19:33:52 2016. First Avenue stations would be much deeper than Lex at any of the tunnels to Queens. It looks like three Avenues from the shoreline is the furthest east that a station platform is practical. |
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| (1410093) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 26 03:13:19 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Sep 26 00:27:14 2016. you are correct that I could watch the thing via you tube, and I do such for other entertainment. that said, I just never had any interest in much tv comedy. my life may be the poorer for that...oh well. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 26 09:09:01 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 23:25:19 2016. And a 2nd Ave exit is planned for the 3rd Ave station in the year 2100. :) |
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| (1410134) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Sep 26 12:35:05 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by randyo on Sun Sep 25 17:16:58 2016. Though with tunnel boring being what it is, you could have a tunnel for example on 79th that includes a stop at York-1st Avenue given the block east of there (York-East End Avenue) has a considerable incline of its own. |
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| (1410153) | |
Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by Allan on Mon Sep 26 14:55:03 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 26 09:09:01 2016. Good. By that time the R315s will be on site. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Sep 26 15:24:26 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by Allan on Mon Sep 26 14:55:03 2016. The way they jump over numbers for the passenger equipment R315s might be as soon as next year. |
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| (1410161) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Sep 26 15:28:53 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 15:58:32 2016. But that came along well after the other tunnels under the East River were built. It may be that by the 80s they thought they were able to have better vertical circulation at deep stations. |
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| (1410162) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 26 15:35:33 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Sep 26 02:47:02 2016. But Bwlng Grn and Whll are not that far from the shore at all. In fact the emergency exit from the Montague tunnel is actually under the East River and comes up on a small man made island a few yards from the actual shore line. |
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| (1410164) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 26 15:43:42 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by WillD on Mon Sep 26 15:28:53 2016. Probably true. But what about Whitehall Street?E Broadway, Bway/Nassau, and York St are also not that far from the river. |
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| (1410221) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Sep 26 23:30:46 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 26 15:35:33 2016. Hmm. You're right, I hadn't thought about that. (I didn't know about the emergency exit you mentioned, but still.) Perhaps the depth of the bay increases more gradually, compared to the East River, which may have a more vertical drop at the shoreline, that the tunnels need to get below the bottom of. The suggestion that it is the slope of the tunnels, rather than absolute depth, that prevents stations at certain points also makes sense. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Sep 27 02:52:49 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 26 09:09:01 2016. The entrance to the 3rd Ave. L station is actually mid-block between 2nd and 3rd Avenues, so probably never. |
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| (1410231) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Sep 27 03:16:28 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Sep 25 21:18:06 2016. ?? There was never a transfer between that el and what's now the L (confusing homophones) there, so how is that a reason? The BMT and IND wouldn't have wanted to attract riders to the 2nd Ave. el, which was discontinued shortly after unification. The 3rd Ave. el did have a transfer to the Flushing line, though. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 27 09:24:00 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Sep 27 02:52:49 2016. The entrance to the 3rd Ave. L station is actually mid-block between 2nd and 3rd Avenues, so probably never.1. Not really. Very close to 3rd. 2. They've announced that when the SAS gets down there (hence my comment about 2100), it will connect with the L. You'll actually be able to exit from the L train at 2nd Ave at both 14th Street and 12th Street. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 27 13:05:37 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 27 09:24:00 2016. Will the transfer to the L be at First Ave. station or Third Ave. station, not that I'll ever see it in my lifetime? |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 13:08:40 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Sep 27 13:05:37 2016. As Third Avenue is the one that has one end at Second Avenue, there is no question which one it will be. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 27 13:25:10 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 27 13:08:40 2016. Yes. The east end of the 3 Ave platform is almost at 2 Ave, and the east end of the 1 Ave platform is almost at Ave A. |
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Re: One |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Sep 27 14:48:48 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Sep 27 03:16:28 2016. However, since the 14 St Line was completed before unification and even the IND, it’s likely that it would have been desirable to afford passengers from Bkln an easy transfer (although at an additional fare) to 2 Av el trains going uptown in the event that the BMT’s own Bway Subway wouldn’t take them where they needed to go. Despite the specific intent of the IND to put the BMT out of business, the city planned a station at Bway/ENY that would have afforded a convenient transfer to the BMT Jamaica and Canarsie Lines even prior to unification. As it turned out, unification was accomplished several years before the IND ENY station was opened but the purpose of the station location remained the same. |
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| (1410324) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Sep 27 17:32:57 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 18:49:59 2016. Yes, 63rd Street's new entrance will open when SAS does. |
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Re: It's the grade |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Sep 27 19:38:07 2016, in response to Re: It's the grade, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 27 09:24:00 2016. In the year 2525! |
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| (1410349) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Sep 27 20:25:35 2016, in response to Re: One, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Sep 27 03:16:28 2016. I said nothing about any transfers. The station was probably built so that people could use the el or the subway there. Re-read what I posted! |
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| (1410396) | |
Re: One |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Sep 28 11:25:18 2016, in response to One, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 15:35:50 2016. I'd just be guessing here but it likely has something to do with the fact that those lines do not stop at first Ave. |
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