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| Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? (1406736) | |
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| (1406743) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 14:02:21 2016, in response to Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Southern BMT on Mon Aug 29 13:51:07 2016. It's also very irritating for passengers heading south from 205th. You have a wait at BPB, which seems to always be at least 2-3 minutes and can easily stretch to 5.This also used to happen (maybe still does) at South Ferry on the 1. The crew change was at Chambers northbound. |
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| (1406747) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Norwood205th on Mon Aug 29 14:18:16 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 14:02:21 2016. When the station was completed in 1935, as we all know, it was never planned to be a terminus. Thus no crew quarters were ever built. |
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| (1406753) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 15:02:45 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Norwood205th on Mon Aug 29 14:18:16 2016. It's not like they haven't had plenty of time to remedy that omission. |
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| (1406754) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 15:06:28 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 14:02:21 2016. AFAIK, crews do not change at Chambers St. Crews starting at either V/C or 137 St return on the same train. The only part that Chambers N/B used to play is that the trains leaving So/Fy, often ahead of time, were held till scheduled time at Chambers. The same is true for the 6 at B Br and the 5 at Bwlg grn. Those crews bring their own trains back to their respective starting terminals. |
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| (1406761) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 15:52:55 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 15:06:28 2016. The only part that Chambers N/B used to play is that the trains leaving So/Fy, often ahead of time, were held till scheduled time at Chambers.Aha. Seems unfriendly to passengers to leave South Ferry ahead of schedule. |
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| (1406762) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 15:55:11 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 15:02:45 2016. Eh, so a thousand people lose 3 minutes out of their day for 80 years. What's the big deal? Plumbing is expensive. |
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| (1406765) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 29 16:10:22 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 15:52:55 2016. How many of them do you think would know or notice? |
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| (1406767) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 29 16:32:58 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Norwood205th on Mon Aug 29 14:18:16 2016. 1933,brah...33. |
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| (1406769) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 17:03:43 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 15:02:45 2016. From what I was told, there is really no place to out any crew quarters at 205 without prohibitively expensive street construction. |
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| (1406770) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 17:11:24 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 15:52:55 2016. The problem at one time was that the #1 timetables were written improperly with following trains scheduled to arrive ahead of the previous trains leaving time. Why it was done this way, I don’t know but that is the way I found it when I went into the schedule office in 1976. In typical IRT fashion, it was left to the rest of the road supervision to smooth out the headways along the line and the headway adjustments were done primarily at Chambers St. It was of little or no consequence that the trains left So/Fy ahead of time since this was mostly during the time that headways were so frequent that passengers would not even know the difference. |
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| (1406775) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Aug 29 18:01:49 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 17:03:43 2016. The only logical solution is to extend the D to Gun Hill Road with crew quarters and a transfer to the 2 and 5. It already extends under the Bronx River. |
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| (1406779) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 29 18:36:30 2016, in response to Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Southern BMT on Mon Aug 29 13:51:07 2016. No crew room there, but it was always kinda odd. A N/B train would arrive, discharge passengers, relay operator board the rear car, and bring the train back into the station on the S/B side, then the crew takes the train to BPB where the crews would change. |
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| (1406781) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 18:44:28 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 29 16:10:22 2016. Almost all would notice the wait at Chambers. |
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| (1406795) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Aug 29 20:19:34 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Aug 29 18:01:49 2016. It does??? |
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| (1406809) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Aug 29 23:35:24 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Aug 29 20:19:34 2016. I'm surprised Selkirk isn't all over this one. Based on what has been posted here in the past, the D tracks and tunnel end about Webster Avenue. They do not cross under the Metro-North tracks or the Bronx River. Why would they? Also, the original plan was to route the line under Burke Avenue, but I agree Gun Hill Road might be a better option, ending with a transfer station connecting to the 2 and 5 at White Plains Road. That would mean angling the line differently than if a tunnel heading toward Burke had been built. |
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| (1406817) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 30 06:36:56 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by italianstallion on Mon Aug 29 15:02:45 2016. Why? There are proper facilities at BPB. |
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| (1406823) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Aug 30 08:53:40 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Aug 29 23:35:24 2016. That will not happen now, because of a brand new charter school building's foundation and basement was recently built, and is opposite where the tunnel ends right there at Webster Avenue.-William A. Padron ["205"] |
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| (1406825) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 09:11:35 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 30 06:36:56 2016. And every single southbound rider from 205th has a 2-5 minute delay as a result. For the last 80 years and counting. |
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| (1406827) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Aug 30 09:17:59 2016, in response to Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Southern BMT on Mon Aug 29 13:51:07 2016. Good question, however every now and then a s/b train will come into Bedford Pk and then continue south with the same crew. No crew change. It can be a weekday or weekend. Confusing to this long time rider. |
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| (1406828) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Southern BMT on Tue Aug 30 09:23:55 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by randyo on Mon Aug 29 17:11:24 2016. So where do (1) crews get relief today? SF or Chambers? |
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| (1406829) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Aug 30 09:25:13 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 29 18:36:30 2016. Lots of oddities on that end of the line. N/B trains arrive center track, then head to 205th on the s/b track. Or n/b train arrives at 205th, no relay, returns south on n/b track to Bedford Pk, then continues south after switching south of Bedford Pk. Lots of fun and games up here. |
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| (1406833) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:00:38 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 09:11:35 2016. If it's written into the schedule, it's not a delay. |
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| (1406835) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 30 10:02:19 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 29 18:44:28 2016. Yeah, because people accept a train doesn't leave a terminal right away, but when a train is held mid-route, it's more annoying. |
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| (1406837) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:07:25 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by r17-6599 on Tue Aug 30 09:17:59 2016. Because the crew started in CCYD and started their run at 205 rather than STL. So they go straight thru.When I worked midnights on the D in 1982 and my Sunday job started and finished at STL, for my last half I would deadhead from BPK to 205 and go straight thru to STL on a train the switchman bought to me from CCYD. I would go straight thru. |
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| (1406839) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:11:30 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Southern BMT on Tue Aug 30 09:23:55 2016. Neither. At Van Cortlandt.With the South Ferry loop they make the round trip on the same train. When South Ferry terminal reopens, they will change trains at the ferry. |
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| (1406841) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 10:13:39 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:00:38 2016. LOL.I think you've just highlighted the entire problem with NYCT management thinking in one sentence. |
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| (1406842) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:14:59 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:07:25 2016. Remember, a northbound crew normally goes from STL to 305, to BPK.A southbound crew normally goes from BPK to STL. |
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| (1406843) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 10:16:13 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 30 10:02:19 2016. It's not only more annoying, it takes more travel time.If every train is 3 minutes early at every single stop on its route, the only people who mind are those who go by the schedule, and there aren't many of those on the subway. But if a train starts 3 minutes early but arrives on time, on average everyone takes 3 minutes longer to get to their destination. |
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| (1406846) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 30 10:43:52 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 10:16:13 2016. And, if a train is so late it goes express to make up time, you're a winner!Unless your station was skipped. |
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| (1406849) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 11:28:18 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:14:59 2016. 205. |
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| (1406850) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 11:32:23 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by SLRT on Tue Aug 30 10:43:52 2016. And, if a train is so late it goes express to make up time, you're a winner!A rare event. On the other hand, people are talking about 1 trains leaving S Ferry early and waiting at Chambers on most runs for many years. |
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| (1406870) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 30 14:34:46 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:11:30 2016. Correct. |
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| (1406877) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 30 15:20:28 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 30 06:36:56 2016. When I was a M/M and when I first became a T/D there were some D crews that reported at 205 St and went through to BBC (back when the D was the Brighton Line). Crews that reported at CCYd and put in their own trains also went through. For many years, there was no delay written into the D timetables but with most of the equipment becoming SMEE requiring a BIE when changing crews, a 2 min hold at B/Pk was written into all D intervals. There was a brief time in the 1980s, when the D work programs were written so that in the AM rush, crews changed northbound at B/Pk so that there would be no S/B delays changing crews, but it was short lived. There were other incidents of crews changing at other than terminals. The #5 Dyre crews changed at E 180 St, N/B in the AM rush and S/B in the PM rush so that passengers would not have delays in the peak direction of traffic. Far Rock A Line crews also changed at Euclid in a similar pattern and those crew changes lasted until proper crew facilities were constructed at Dyre and Far Rock respectively. In the case of Far Rock, the reason for the crew change was not so much due to lack of crew facilities as it was the lack of supervision at Far Rock. At some point, the NYCTA decided to put a full time supervisor at Far Rock allowing crews to report there. |
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| (1406879) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Aug 30 15:27:16 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:07:25 2016. I addressed that in my post. M-F, there was supervision at 205 from 600A to 1000P allowing certain crews to report at 205 and go through, usually, but not always put ins. On weekends when a train was put in by a switchman crews would report at Bedford and deadhead to 205 to operate through since there was no weekend supervision at 205. |
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| (1406889) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Aug 30 18:07:36 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 09:11:35 2016. Not worth spending millions to build a redundant facility. |
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| (1406891) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 30 18:13:14 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 10:07:25 2016. A lot of folks don't realize that D jobs report to STL. Much to my personal dismay since I lived at 205. :) |
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| (1406894) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 30 18:28:14 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Aug 29 23:35:24 2016. Busiest time of the year at work, so just catching up now. Looks like you guys have it under control. :) |
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| (1406898) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 30 19:02:35 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 30 18:13:14 2016. At least you could take the subway to work. :-) |
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| (1406900) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 30 19:04:03 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 30 19:02:35 2016. And one-seat ride! |
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| (1406902) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 30 19:08:09 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by italianstallion on Tue Aug 30 19:04:03 2016. Always! Best part of it was that I could just pop open a cab and sleep all the way to the other end. :) |
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| (1406905) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Aug 30 19:19:01 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Aug 29 23:35:24 2016. I thought it was Webster Ave, not under the Bronx River. Since that charter school was built, I'd guess they would have to remove that building on the NW corner of 205th St/Webster, if they wanted to angle up towards Gun Hill Road. |
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| (1406923) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Aug 30 21:45:04 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Tue Aug 30 10:13:39 2016. A while back, the fellow who goes by the handle lirr42 questioned this philosophy, suggesting that wasting people's time every day so that the statistics look good is not necessarily better than having some trains late sometimes, harming the statistics, but saving people time on a routine basis. In other words, in an extreme case, one could take the longest run of a train and use that to write the schedule. The train would never be officially "late," but if the train can usually be run in, say, 45 minutes, padding it to 60 or 90 minutes just wastes everyone's time every day and is kind of insulting to riders even if it never shows up in an official statistic.It might be time to build some simple crew quarters at 205 St somehow. Or maybe the line should be extended one stop with suitable facilities at the new terminal. |
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| (1406924) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Aug 30 21:47:03 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by William A. Padron on Tue Aug 30 08:53:40 2016. Tear down that charter school! |
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| (1406926) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 22:43:59 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Aug 30 21:45:04 2016. Not cost effective when you have a facility one stop away. |
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| (1406934) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 31 00:17:33 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Aug 30 22:43:59 2016. Not cost effective when you have a facility one stop away.8,000 people per day use 205th. Each has their trip delayed by an average of at least 2 minutes relative to normal operation. That's 4 million minutes per year, or 70,000 hours. Over 80 years, that's 5 million hours. At $10 per hour (a low end estimate), that's $50 million in today's dollars. |
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| (1406969) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Aug 31 13:50:31 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Wed Aug 31 00:17:33 2016. Except . . if someone misses 2 minutes of work a day because of this, it won't likely affect his productivity or wages that day or any other. |
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| (1406970) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 31 13:52:55 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by AlM on Wed Aug 31 00:17:33 2016. Most bus lines have relief points at locations other than the actual terminals of the lines and riders just take it in stride. The same can be said for the situation at Bedford Pk. When I was in San Francisco on BART, my train stopped between stations at a designated employee stop so that the operator could be relieved by another operator coming from his report facility. At least in NY reliefs are done at an actual passenger stop instead of in the middle of nowhere. |
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| (1406983) | |
Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Aug 31 16:21:54 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by italianstallion on Wed Aug 31 13:50:31 2016. No amount of incremental time spent on a task is too small to consider. For every person for whom the 2 minutes get absorbed somehow, there will be another person for whom the 2 minutes somehow mushroom into 4 minutes wasted. You have to count it as an average of 2 minutes per person even though the actual amount will vary.In fact, if a D train departs at 205th every 7 minutes and people arrive there randomly, you can argue that 5/7ths of people lose no time while 2/7ths of people lose 7 minutes. |
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| (1406999) | |
(Lion) Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Aug 31 17:08:59 2016, in response to Re: Why no (D) jobs out of 205 St?, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 29 18:36:30 2016. Bedford Park was then the end of the (CC) train and WAS a Terminal.205th Street on the other hand, ans never a terminal, as the line was proposed to continue. There *is* a SECRET TUNNEL there too, but since that was never built, nobody knows about it and there is no mystery there. But now that I have let the feline out of the sack... speculation will run rampant, but yeah. THAT is the story. ROAR |
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