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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Allan on Tue May 17 14:08:43 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. I guess the reopening of Bergen St lower will be a non-event. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 17 14:12:26 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Allan on Tue May 17 14:08:43 2016. Reopening?I would assume they'll just run express trains past the closed lower level platforms without stopping. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 17 15:06:50 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by AlM on Tue May 17 14:12:26 2016. Most likely. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 17 15:31:26 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. 1. How long is/are the express section/s?1a. Why not use the center track in peak direction? 2. What's their current excuse for limiting express sections to 30-ish mph? MTA trains on stick rails topped 60mph decades ago. 3. Whatever the excuse is, the problem could be addressed if they actually wanted to. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 17 15:55:56 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by AlM on Tue May 17 14:12:26 2016. Yes, given that the trains are described as operating express from Jay St rather than from Bergen St. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue May 17 15:57:50 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. What is the likelihood that someone will pass up an F "Local" in Manhattan to wait for a F "Express."I imagine they think they can get away with reduced F service at stations from Bergen to Church Avenue because there is the G. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 17 16:03:04 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by SLRT on Tue May 17 15:57:50 2016. What is the likelihood that someone will pass up an F "Local" in Manhattan to wait for a F "Express."If there are 7 local tph and 7 express tph, and the express saves 7 minutes over the local, the express that you wait for should pass the local you have failed to board somewhere between Jay St and Church Ave. So it's worth doing if you are going at least as far as Church Ave and aren't going beyond King's Highway or wherever the express will terminate. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 17 16:10:02 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by SLRT on Tue May 17 15:57:50 2016. What is the likelihood that someone will pass up an F "Local" in Manhattan to wait for a F "Express."Depends on the frequency and reliability of the F express, which, I must say, will probably merit a diamond bullet, meeting the same requirements as the diamond 6 and diamond 7 do, even if for whatever reason MTA refuses to give it this type of bullet. Technically, operating costs are being saved since I would suppose that you can take at least one trainset out of service, but it's hard to tell based on how often the expresses would run. If they are less than every other train, then passengers will have to know the schedule rather than just deduce that it's "the next one." I'm also concerned with the smoothness of merges at Jay St northbound and Ditmas southbound, and that it seems expresses end at Kings Hwy rather than Coney Island. It pains me to say this but I'm not optimistic at all. The railfan in me wants a Culver Express, but the only way this setup works for the long haul is to maximize success stories and minimize inconveniences. I can't think of how to do both. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 17 16:14:00 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by AlM on Tue May 17 16:03:04 2016. it's not just the time; the start/stop/jerk of a local makes it seem longer. Plus the express could cut its travel time by quite a bit by re-configuring the timers/signals etc, and restoring normal power to the trains. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue May 17 17:39:14 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Allan on Tue May 17 14:08:43 2016. Exactly what I told you guys in the past: no increase in the total number of F trains.Those who want express F's should have been careful for what they wished for. This is a service cut to local stations. If some will go express from Church to Jay and others go local, the expresses will arrive at Jay with plenty of room and the locals will be packed with some by Carroll & Bergen unable to get on. Frame this post. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 17 18:00:35 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue May 17 17:39:14 2016. If some will go express from Church to Jay and others go local, the expresses will arrive at Jay with plenty of room and the locals will be packed with some by Carroll & Bergen unable to get on.If some people really can't get on at the local stations in the peak period, that service pattern will die a very quick death. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue May 17 18:03:38 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. To better distribute loading, they really need to restore the switch at Kings Hwy, and bring back the old peak express service on the el. "Trains marked Coney Island run express between Kings Hwy and Jay St to Manhattan AM rush and from Manhattan PM rush." |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by mike nash on Tue May 17 18:18:57 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue May 17 18:03:38 2016. peek express service between kh and church is planned in 2019 when the switch and signal upgade done. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 17 19:47:37 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue May 17 18:03:38 2016. Yeah, maybe whoever put that 3rd track in there had it figured out the 1st time.There must be some way to speed up train merges, or whatever the issue was that makes F express hit a choke point. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 17 19:50:47 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 17 16:10:02 2016. If the do what they did in the 1960s when I was a M/M, the F expresses will originate/terminate at Stl and the lcls will originate/terminate at K/Hwy. That would of course require either the reinstallation of the switch from the lcl to the exp tk S/O K/Hwy or a completely new switch from the lcl to the exp tk N/O K/Hwy which would actually make more sense since having the expresses Xover N/O the station would allow the lcls to turn back in the station instead of relaying S/O the station like they used to. Another option would be to have the expresses Xover N/O Ave X and bypass Ave U leaving Ave U as a local stop since in the AM rush the CIY put ins go in service at Ave X anyhow. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 17 19:52:54 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by AlM on Tue May 17 18:00:35 2016. I don’t recall that being any sort of problem in the late 1960s/early 1970s when that service pattern last operated. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 17 19:54:56 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by mike nash on Tue May 17 18:18:57 2016. As I mentioned in my other post, it would make more sense th add a completely new switch N/O K/Hwy from the lcl to the exp tk since that would allow the lcls to terminate on the middle tk in the station rather than relay S/O the station like they used to. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue May 17 20:15:02 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by randyo on Tue May 17 19:52:54 2016. How frequently did the F train (express + local) run during the rush back then? More than the current 14-15 tph?I'm not sure this is going to end well... |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 17 20:19:01 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. And it failed. Why? |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue May 17 20:49:36 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. They're actually doing it! I can't believe it. I guess they're not all that concerned about the crowding that will result from the local stations north of Church that will have fewer F trains stopping there. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 17 21:12:27 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by mike nash on Tue May 17 18:18:57 2016. First we have to make it to 2019. It's going to be bumpy. I'd be stunned if 2018 goes by with minimal complaining about the new service pattern. It might have been better to just wait until everything was done and then institute all aspects of express service all at once. We may never get to test KH-Church express service because Church-Jay express service got tried and shut down. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 17 21:16:33 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 17 20:19:01 2016. I know.But I want to see their idea first. We really don't know what it is. We just know some percentage of F trains above 0 and less than 100 (and probably 50 or less) will go express Church to Jay, and, supposedly, most or all of the trains in question will terminate short of Coney Island, either Church, Kings Highway, or Ave X, or a combination. If they can start even some F trains from Church, it could be very helpful and quite an incentive for the local riders. But once we get the full layout then we can judge more. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 17 21:36:56 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue May 17 21:16:33 2016. It sounds like there is one huge advantage: If the express and local start in different places, such as starting the express at Church, people will be able to wait just a few min for an empty train which will be a lot less aggravating to get into. Even if it does get packed a few stops later, that's happening nearer when people get off.Sending every train all the way to CI is a huge waste. Short turning them means more service where the trains are now more crowded. That would alleviate some of the crowding. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed May 18 12:18:22 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 17 21:36:56 2016. From a previous message:"Sending every train all the way to CI is a huge waste. Short turning them means more service where the trains are now more crowded. That would alleviate some of the crowding." First off - "every F-train" DID NOT and DOES NOT go all of the way to Coney Island. For decades during the rush hours, the F-line had trains that both ended and began their runs at the Kings Highway station, with plenty of trains entering or leaving the line at the Avenue X access point to the Coney Island train yard. For the relatively short period of time in the early/mid 1970's that the F-line operated rush hour express service - F-trains that originated at Kings Highway were the local trains, while F-trains originated at Coney Island were the express trains. While plenty of transit folk would like to recreate that configuration, the removal decades ago of an important track switch on the approach to the Kings Highway station from Coney Island eliminates that configuration. Mike |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed May 18 12:45:41 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Wed May 18 12:18:22 2016. F's start at Avenue X at: 06:24:30, 06:36:00, 06:47:30, 06:59:00, 07:08:00, 07:18:00, 07:34:00, 07:46:00.F's start at Kings Hwy at: 07:58:00, 08:08:00, 08:21:00, 08:30:00, 08:42:30, 08:53:30, 14:19:00, 14:49:00, 15:17:30, 15:33:00, 15:43:00, 15:58:30, 16:06:30, 16:18:00, 16:30:00, 16:37:00, 16:43:00, 16:54:00, 17:03:00, 17:11:00, 17:20:30, 17:30:30, 17:41:30, 17:52:00, 18:02:30, 18:15:00, 18:25:00, 18:34:00, 18:44:30, 18:56:00, 19:06:00, 19:17:30 F's terminate at Kings Hwy at: 07:49:00, 08:01:00, 08:14:00, 08:23:00, 08:32:00, 08:45:30, 08:59:00, 09:12:00, 09:19:00, 09:27:00, 09:35:00, 09:42:30, 09:49:30, 09:58:00, 10:14:30, 10:28:00, 10:45:00, 16:23:00, 16:45:00, 16:56:00, 17:13:00, 17:24:00, 17:34:00, 17:44:00, 17:54:00, 18:04:30, 18:17:00, 18:27:00, 18:36:00, 18:49:00, 18:58:30, 19:08:30, 19:32:30, 20:03:00, 20:17:30, 20:52:30, 21:16:30, 21:28:30 |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed May 18 12:49:59 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Wed May 18 12:18:22 2016. '"every F-train" DID NOT and DOES NOT go all of the way to Coney Island'Calm down, I don't drive those trains, so I didn't know that. 'removal of an an important track switch' If it can be removed, it can be replaced. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 18 15:28:39 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Steamdriven on Wed May 18 12:49:59 2016. I mentioned that in another post on this topic. However, I also suggested that rather than replace the switch from the lcl to the exp tk S/O K/Hwy station, a new switch from the lcl to the exp tk should be installed NORTH of the station. This would allow lcl trains terminating at K/Hwy to return right back north from there middle rather than relaying S/O the station. Exp trains could then simply X over from the lcl to the exp tk while th lcl train is discharging and receiving passengers in the middle. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by GIS Man on Wed May 18 15:59:16 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. A.S. Beck*, guys!*Seein' is believin'! LOL Bob |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by TML on Tue May 24 00:06:36 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. Back in 1968, F express service was first implemented along the northern part (Jay-Church) of the Culver Line. This express segment was discontinued in 1972 in response to rider complaints and budget cuts. A revival of this segment in 1976 lasted less than a year. Thus, I think that if the MTA's current F express proposal were to be implemented, it will probably be discontinued within five years of its implementation. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 24 02:51:25 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by TML on Tue May 24 00:06:36 2016. Huh?Sorry,but thats not quite true..as I have personal ridden the Express Many times between 72 and 76... |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue May 24 12:19:11 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by randyo on Wed May 18 15:28:39 2016. In the past I've said that the Kings Highway station of the 1970's (with the now missing switch) was a rather versatile station.The removal of that switch cut down on the versatility of the station for terminating trains, AND handling middle track express trains in BOTH directions. IF the MTA were to add new track switches to the Kings Highway station, it would be wonderful if a set of new switches were added both NORTH and SOUTH of the station. It would be utterly fantastic if both north and south of the Kings Highway station, both switch junctions could handle the terminating trains, AND handling middle track express trains. One could have on the center track at platform a Kings Highway F-train waiting for its scheduled time to leave, with a Kings Highway F-train on the out-bound local track discharging passengers and ready to move to the center track relay position "south" of the station before it returns to the platforms. While at the same time - either for the am-rush hours or the pm rush hours - middle track F-Coney Island express trains can freely move in and out of the station. That would be utterly fantastic! Mike |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 24 15:11:59 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 24 12:19:11 2016. The idea is fantastic...I have to ask,though... Was there ever a clear cut reason as to Why that crossover was removed in the first place? |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue May 24 15:14:11 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 24 15:11:59 2016. MTA has stated that since it was no longer being used (once express service was canceled), they removed it so they wouldn't have to maintain it. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by TML on Tue May 24 18:23:35 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 24 02:51:25 2016. I was only referring to the northern express segment - I am well aware that the southern express segment from Kings Highway to Church Avenue was in use throughout this time. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 24 19:23:13 2016, in response to MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Tue May 17 12:25:34 2016. Why not increase the speeds on the express tracks to keep both local and express riders happy? The old NX hit around 60mph, or so I'm told.If the trains are going 60 mph (or whatever is well below tumbling off the tracks, etc) then fewer trains can provide the same service, or the same trains provide more frequent service. Sure, the bureaucrats don't like that, but they could be fired and replaced with RR types. If you need fewer trainsets for the express, the unused ones can be placed on the local. I understand there's some sort of issue where the lines combine, cross or otherwise get tangled, but I suspect that could be worked around if the will to do so existed. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Michael549 on Wed May 25 13:18:22 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Steamdriven on Tue May 24 19:23:13 2016. There are several ideas within your question, so I'll take them one at a time.Your Question - Why not increase the speeds on the express tracks to keep both local and express riders happy? The speed of a train helps the riders on-board the train, but that is not the same as helping the riders waiting at the platforms. An example - a couple of decades ago on Staten Island a private high-speed ferry ran between St. George and Mid-town taking 25 minutes while charging a premium fare. The regular free ferry takes 25 minutes for the 5.5 mile crossing to South Ferry with the subway adding 30 minutes to reach midtown. The fast ferry was indeed "fast" but it was not "frequent!" "Frequent" in transit terms is about how many trains (or buses, etc) greet passengers in a given time period - the wait time between trains. If memory serves there were 6 am rush hour trips only to Manhattan and the pm rush hour 6 trips only from Manhattan. Other-wise there was no service at all. Train speeds can be increased, but that is not the same as saying there is frequent service. Many folks commonly confuse "fast" with "frequent" - but they are not the same thing in this case. Your question - If the trains are going 60 mph (or whatever) then fewer trains can provide the same service, or the same trains provide more frequent service. Beware of confusing "fast" and "frequent". Here you are talking about "turn around" time - the time it takes the train to reach its destination, and then return to its home base. All things being equal in theory - the shorter amount of "turn-around time" could mean fewer train units needed for the service, or possibly frequent service meaning shorter waits between trains for passengers. Except in the real world - all things are not equal. Other guys on the forum are much better than I am at making train schedules, and have worked at the train scheduling offices at the Transit Authority. These folks will be much able to explain why "all things are not equal" - and the other factors involved. Your question - I suspect that could be worked around if the will to do so existed ... The basic problem is simple - and the F-line just happens to be the current example. It is simple - just how does one get a huge group of folks to give up something that they've benefited from & enjoy - for a lesser quality service where others benefit? Especially when the current beneficial situation DOES NOT HAVE TO CHANGE! There are no pressing fiscal, environmental, political, technological, etc. reasons for a change in train service. There is no pressing, "Why" for the proposed service change for the majority of the riders at the most highly used stations. Some transit folks and others forget that "people often do not like change." If that change does not bring about positive benefits - and in fact brings about actual negatives - people will resist! Some transit folks come up all kinds of suggestions - but they really do not have anything that approaches the level of simple direct frequent service to Manhattan that has been enjoyed for decades. One simply can not sugar coat longer waits for trains! Or ferries, or buses! Mike |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Steamdriven on Wed May 25 22:13:07 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Wed May 25 13:18:22 2016. That's helpful - seems like what you're saying is that it comes down to 'theory doesn't always work in practice'.Here I'll explain what I meant by speed helping with frequency: Using round numbers, not actual figures, let's train line X is an hour round trip, and there are ten trains on that line, so (ignoring turnaround time etc) a train should show up every 6 minutes. If we cut the round trip time to 54 minutes, nine trains would provide 6 minute frequency and a barely noticeable time savings. Keeping all 10 in use increases frequency/capacity by ~10%. Now let's have an (imaginary) line with 4 tracks, so it provides local and express (because I'm too lazy to calculate how a peak-direction express would work ;-). The express train makes a round trip in 30 minutes (we bought motors from Acme Products). We assign less equipment and staff to this run, let's say only 5 trains. But, because we've kicked it down the tracks at a fair pace, those 5 trains are providing .... six minute frequency (again, longer in reality, as they don't run in a circle, but must empty and change ends, etc). Thus the passengers have the same wait time, but those going longer distances spend less time jammed into a subway car, those going 5 or 6 stops on the local weren't stuck in a train for long anyways. Both lines together take 14 trainsets total, while moving the same px/hr with the original, slow local only setup would have needed 20. At over $10 million per train, that's $60 million less equipment tied up. I'll be you could upgrade a lotta 7mph switches and superelevate a lotta curves with $60 million. That's how it would work on a model railroad; what you seem to be saying is this won't work out so well in practice. Given the various complications in going from an imaginary setup to a real 100 year old subway system, and the fact that I've never worked on or for a RR, I can believe that the theory hits too many obstacles to work at NYCT. But I still hate the feeling of grinding along a straight stretch in an expensive electric train at speeds a bicyclist or a horse can top! |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 26 20:40:36 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Michael549 on Wed May 25 13:18:22 2016. The situation does improve if those local trains start at Church Av.To play devils advocate, as someone who lived on Queens blvd for 2 decades, I will assure you that having the G and 8TPH R starting at 71/Continental was infinitely better than a hypothetical situation where the 15 TPH F made all of the local stops in place of the R. |
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Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017 |
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Posted by Michael549 on Thu May 26 22:42:57 2016, in response to Re: MTA to run express F train service in Brooklyn in 2017, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 26 20:40:36 2016. Henry R32 #3730 says:"To play devils advocate, as someone who lived on Queens blvd for 2 decades, I will assure you that having the G and 8TPH R starting at 71/Continental was infinitely better than a hypothetical situation where the 15 TPH F made all of the local stops in place of the R." ------- The majority of the discussion concerned the F-line in Brooklyn, not the F-line in Queens. What works on the F-line in Brooklyn, might not work for the F-line in Queens. Unless, I'm very wrong the passenger loading situation along the Queens Blvd from stem to stern is very much different than the passenger ridership situation on the Culver line in Brooklyn. Meaning, at least in my view a different response to the huge ridership issues. While both apples and oranges are fruit, we treat them differently. Mike |
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