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| DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus (1394240) | |
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DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 2 12:33:24 2016 Troubles |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 2 12:50:46 2016, in response to DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 2 12:33:24 2016. as a nation we have all lived as if nothing will break down so no need to do preventive maintenance. clearly no one got the concept of entropy in school; least of all the pols. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 2 13:49:26 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 2 12:50:46 2016. I like your post. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 2 14:15:54 2016, in response to DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 2 12:33:24 2016. Funny how the answer to maintenance issues are technologies that require even higher levels of maintenance to function properly. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Jace on Mon May 2 17:16:19 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 2 14:15:54 2016. Technological fixes to management problems don't work. Rather than just generating a list of headlines (what do Sandy repairs have to do with aging subway infrastructure?), the author of the article should read some of those NTSB reports on WMATA he mentioned. Maybe he'll gain a little insight into the consequences of their over-reliance on technology and automation. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon May 2 22:45:01 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Jace on Mon May 2 17:16:19 2016. Technological fixes to management problems don't work. Rather than just generating a list of headlines (what do Sandy repairs have to do with aging subway infrastructure?), the author of the article should read some of those NTSB reports on WMATA he mentioned. Maybe he'll gain a little insight into the consequences of their over-reliance on technology and automation.The issues plaguing WMATA go far deeper. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Jace on Tue May 3 17:14:47 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Sand Box John on Mon May 2 22:45:01 2016. Incompetence is a direct result of that over-reliance on technology; the Shady Grove and Fort Totten wrecks both show WMATA turning a blind eye to an automated system going haywire. They trusted that the machine was always right even when common-sense clearly indicated otherwise. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 3 23:19:19 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Jace on Tue May 3 17:14:47 2016. Incompetence is a direct result of that over-reliance on technology; the Shady Grove and Fort Totten wrecks both show WMATA turning a blind eye to an automated system going haywire. They trusted that the machine was always right even when common-sense clearly indicated otherwise.The Shady grove wreck was the result of ROCC supervision not granting permission to the train operator that had situational awareness of the conditions before him. The Fort Totten Wreck was the result of shoddy maintenance practices and failure to verify that the hardware was functioning to designed specification. Like I said, the issues plaguing WMATA go far deeper. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by Jace on Wed May 4 09:24:21 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 3 23:19:19 2016. You're right on Shady Grove. To rephrase, management trusted automatic train operation far more than the operators even though trains were overshooting stations left and right while operating automatically. Compounding that was having maximum acceleration and braking rates as the default reset after overshoots (no one questioned that either).The basic problem with the Fort Totten wreck was that the train control system was reporting more than 9,000 false track occupancies per week and no one in the control center questioned it. Alarms were screaming, lights were flashing and no one had enough trust in themselves to think that something bad might happen when your most basic and critical safety system can't reliably tell you whether or not tracks are occupied 100% of the time. Shoddy maintenance led to this but why maintain something that you believe is perfect to begin with? This wreck illustrated to me how phenomenally bad their operations had become. I still can't understand how they functioned. |
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Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 4 14:39:49 2016, in response to Re: DC Metro subway shutdown brings America’s aging subway systems into focus, posted by Sand Box John on Tue May 3 23:19:19 2016. The Shady grove wreck was the result of ROCC supervision not granting permission to the train operator that had situational awareness of the conditions before him.(1) The ROCC was under orders from the AGM Rail never to grant that permission. (2) The fundamental flaw here is that the WMATA rule book didn't (doesn't?) give operating staff carte blanche to take necessary action in any situation to avert imminent danger. |
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