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| (1377487) | |
PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015 Today was an important day at the Trolley Museum of New York when its new acquisition arrived, PATH PA1 car 143. This car is one of two that survived in the ruins of the World Trade Center and will become the centerpiece of a new 9/11 exhibit that will include other artifacts of that fateful day.Here's a link to a video of the Silk Road truck making the last turn to the museum. 
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 16 22:58:04 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Not a very dramatic last turn.Were there enough vehicles with flashing lights behind the truck? |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 23:09:56 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 16 22:58:04 2015. He had to pause to steer the rear wheels on the sharp turn.State Police, Kingston Police, Kingston Fire Dept. and Sheriff Dept. each had a number of vehicles there to escort the arrival. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 16 23:22:33 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 23:09:56 2015. State Police, Kingston Police, Kingston Fire Dept. and Sheriff Dept. each had a number of vehicles there to escort the arrival.Weird. It's not like anyone died on it. It was sticking out into the tunnel, right? |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 23:29:19 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. TWC News coverage |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Dec 16 23:38:31 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Here's a link to a video of the Silk Road truck making the last turn to the museum.Silk Road is the outfit that has been contracted to deliver the R7000 for WMATA from Lincoln Nebraska to Greenbelt Maryland. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Stef on Wed Dec 16 23:55:17 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Thanks for sharing!You got a very familiar face in here... -Stef |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Stef on Thu Dec 17 00:04:09 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Stef on Wed Dec 16 23:55:17 2015. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by chud1 on Thu Dec 17 04:22:02 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. rest well my son.chud1. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 07:40:16 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. This must make the 1st time a PA1/2 car has "seen" a NYC subway car, except maybe back in St Louis with R38's when they were getting built. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 07:41:40 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 16 23:22:33 2015. It was part of a 6 or 7 car train laid up in WTC.A PA4 car and several other older cars were crushed into flat cars. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Dec 17 08:24:47 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Good old #9 1943 smoking away, used to run on SIR as well as South Brooklyn RR |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Dec 17 09:22:09 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 07:41:40 2015. Yes, I know that. But since the other cars were crushed and two cars remained almost completely intact, and based on various accounts that I read, it seems like maybe, maybe, the reason these two cars survived is that they were, for some reason, within the cast iron tunnel and not within the station itself. That is just a guess on my part with no hard evidence. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Dec 17 09:46:25 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Dec 17 09:22:09 2015. That makes sense , if that were the case. Thanks! |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 09:48:56 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Shame that your scrapped H&M "black cars" could not be on hand to welcome a PATH brother. :(I'm all for a static display and not to be restored to running condition. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Dec 17 10:05:14 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 09:48:56 2015. I'm all for a static display and not to be restored to running condition.100% disagree. This thing should be run and run hard. And by run I mean towed but taking and using power. How many publicly "operating" PA1/2 cars are there? EXACTLY. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 10:19:03 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Dec 17 10:05:14 2015. It would have to MU with some other SMEE (or AMUE) car up there.Don't know if it is technically possible. It does not have H2 couplers anymore for one thing, so we would be lucky if they could just get the brakes to work with the R16 with an AAR coupler adapter, or whatever. Their, and all other possessors of these Hangar artifacts legally is to simply open it to public display. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Thu Dec 17 11:33:47 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 09:48:56 2015. Agree, should be left as is though they clean the car of any bio-hazard/contamination. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 12:40:34 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 10:19:03 2015. Their, and all other possessors of these Hangar artifacts legally is to simply open it to public display.It was reported that the deal for the distribution of these artifacts, big and small was to be put on public display. Pay no attention to the foamers who want to see this car MU with an R-16. The car should be displayed as is, no cleaning, repainting or replaced picture windows. The basic idea is to show the public the condition of these two cars on the day of the attacks. If it's good enought for SLTM, it's good enough for TMNY. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 17 12:54:06 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 12:40:34 2015. How do you know that this is exactly how it looked on the day of the attacks?Anyhow, why does leaving them in this condition preclude them from being operated? How does operating them lessen them?? And who says it is good enough for SLTM? And even if it is, why do other museums have to follow their lead? |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Dec 17 13:00:12 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 12:40:34 2015. I am sure the asbestos should be taken out of it before it "opens". |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Dec 17 15:18:13 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 17 12:54:06 2015. its a blind motor,that means you have to have a subway car on each end.BTW:kingston has no overhead,its power comes from a diesel generator "dinky"that is pushed/pulled to supply power to the car via a jumper cable. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 17 22:22:34 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Dec 17 12:40:34 2015. I've taken some heat for my opinion about this, but fuck it, Im a big boy, I can deal...That car belongs in the 9/11 museum down on ground zero & not at TMNY or any other museum where geeks & insensitive foamers want to see it lumped in with another discarded obeselete relics as some sort of tourist atraction. All rail/transit museums should represent the progress & evolution of transit vehicles & be proud of their accomplishments & their contribution to urban growth. That PATH car represents a relic of destruction, death & the horror of what happened that day.It would fit right in with the wrecked firetrucks & ambulances....etc down there, in their place of honor. To have that PATH car MU & run with other equiptment at TMNY would be the equivelent of raising the Arizona at Pearl Harbor & using it for ferry rides. ...And I don't want to hear any bullshit about that car not being able to fit down there at the Ground Zero Museum. They could & should have made room. I've been there & eyesight don't lie. Enough said. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Fri Dec 18 08:26:41 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 17 22:22:34 2015. That said people want to see the car, they want to touch the car. Yes it should be in lower Manhattan but given that location said No and Hanger 17 is going to be torn down for airport expansion should the cars just be scraped?I'm glad both are saved that is what I am taking about and we can never say enough about 9/11. You have to remember and tell your children and have their children tell theirs. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 08:41:31 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by TUNNELRAT on Thu Dec 17 15:18:13 2015. its a blind motor,that means you have to have a subway car on each endI know. .BTW:kingston has no overhead,its power comes from a diesel generator "dinky"that is pushed/pulled to supply power to the car via a jumper cable.I know. Neither of those change anything I said. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 08:44:39 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 17 22:22:34 2015. LOL! It's just a subway car! No one died on it!!! It doesn't represent anything bad.If there were tons of other PATH PA1/2/3 cars preserved across the country then maybe I'd be ok with this one being stuffed and mounted in a non-rail museum, but since there aren't, your idea is awful. We need to preserve and operate vintage transit equipment. That's what this is. Case closed. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 09:46:21 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 08:44:39 2015. You're wrong. Car 143 is not "just a subway car". It's an important historical artifact, which is known to have been at the WTC immediately before, during, and after the attack against it. Who knows how many people's remains fell around it as the towers collapsed?The car is part of the story of that awful, tragic morning. It should be part of a static exhibit, honoring the heroism of the PATH personnel who risked their own lives to ensure that everyone got out of the WTC station alive, and the PANYNJ personnel who died at the site, as well. The car represents a dark chapter in our history, and connects us to a time when the Twin Towers rose proudly above the Manhattan skyline, and those we loved and worked with, were still alive and well. Case closed. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 09:57:45 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 09:46:21 2015. So much wrong here. But one quick point for now that I just thought of: that LIRR car where that guy murdered all those people wasn't immediately put on static display. As per a recent post here, it was cleaned up and RETURNED TO SERVICE! Case closed. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 10:15:15 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 09:57:45 2015. With their roster numbers changed. But neither of the surviving WTC PATH cars were ever "cleaned up and returned to service", because it was recognized that they were HISTORICAL ARTIFACTS OF A NATIONAL TRAGEDY!As horrible as the LIRR massacre was, it wasn't a world-changing event like the 9/11 attacks. The historical significance of the car is plainly obvious, your callous arguments notwithstanding. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Dec 18 10:40:24 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 08:44:39 2015. a 100 series PA is not particularly useful outside of stuffing and mounting.Hopefully Branford will be able to run theirs someday. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Dec 18 12:01:29 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 09:57:45 2015. I was told that the car in which the shootings occurred remained out of service as evidence of the crime for the length of the trial. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 12:10:12 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Dec 18 12:01:29 2015. That M-3 pair was held as evidence until the trial was over, at which time it was extensively cleaned and renumbered, then restored to revenue service. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 13:04:16 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 10:15:15 2015. because it was recognized that they were HISTORICAL ARTIFACTS OF A NATIONAL TRAGEDY!No, that's not why! LOL! Or rather, that's not the only reason. As horrible as the LIRR massacre was, it wasn't a world-changing event like the 9/11 attacks. The historical significance of the car is plainly obvious, your callous arguments notwithstanding.Nope. Murdering a whole bunch of people ON AN ACTUAL TRAIN CAR is a lot worse to the train car in question and to people who may come in contact with that same train car in the future than the fact that a terrorist attack happened above a train car that was in a tunnel* adjacent to the station below the attack site. Just because an object was near the site of a "national tragedy" does not mean that it can no longer be used for its original purpose or even a closely related purpose. *my guess |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 13:06:17 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by R30A on Fri Dec 18 10:40:24 2015. It can be towed. Ignoring 9/11, I, and I'm sure many other people, would enjoy riding in a 100 series PA. It doesn't matter to me one iota that it happens to be a blind trailer instead of a motor. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Dec 18 13:27:29 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 09:46:21 2015. IAWTP!chud1. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Dec 18 13:29:22 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Dec 18 10:15:15 2015. IAWTP!chud1. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by chud1 on Fri Dec 18 13:31:44 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by R2Chinatown on Fri Dec 18 12:01:29 2015. IAWTP!my brother-in-law, a retired nassau county police officer, was at da station, seconds after da shots were fired. chud1. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 18 17:58:13 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by R30A on Fri Dec 18 10:40:24 2015. Hopefully Branford can some day get a PA4 as its playmate.3 of 6 cars did not get turned into pancakes. I never heard of what happened to the 3rd intact car. One of the 6 cars should have remained at the WTC Memorial. The saved a crushed police car, so a PATH car in whatever condition would also be appropriate. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Strike_Mark on Sat Dec 19 02:27:41 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Dec 17 09:22:09 2015. It would be an incorrect guess. The train was in the station and the two cars were in an area that didn't collapse. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 19 22:13:28 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Dec 18 08:44:39 2015. Its not just a subway car. Its a remnant & "survivor" of that horrible day. Its not just another R-1, R-16,or R-46 which represented progress in urban NYC Mass transit. Its there because of luck & the laws of random chance kept it from being destroyed.It shouldn't be treated like just another tourist attraction where ignorant, insensitive people can say "oh WoW, this is a PATH car that survived 9-11. Lets get a selfie next to one of the dents.." It belongs in a place of honor like the 9-11 museum & not amongst people who have no sense of priorities or know the difference between progress & hate. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Dec 19 22:36:48 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 18 17:58:13 2015. They've said why there's no path car in the museum. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by ren on Sun Dec 20 02:30:10 2015, in response to PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Wed Dec 16 22:11:29 2015. Do you see that Low V in the background of Evan Jennings's picture, with the green roof? I painted that roof. I was a volunteer at TMNY until the characteristic foolishness took over. The idea for painting that Low V originated with a boob called James McGinty who seized upon my idea to rustproof the rusting Low V. I told the museum volunteers the rust breakthrough was so severe that rust inhibitor needed to be applied until a proper paint job could be done.I bought a couple of cans of inhibitor, but then McGinty decided to have the entire Low V painted, without primer and without finishing the rust inhibitor applications. That, in hindsight, was a bad idea, since now the rust will be trapped underneath, and spread. Given that no restoration is taking place on the Low V or any of the cars (aside from the R-16) that seems almost idiotic. The reason the Low V is in two shades of green was the result of a misunderstanding between another volunteer, Omar Pagan, and myself. We were going to use Hunter Green, which Pagan insisted on. But this shade is not sold by the gallon. I proposed a different shade, since this was going to be a storm proof primer. Then when we got to Kingston we realized we had two different colors. Rather than mix them, we painted different sections: the light green covered the roof and the darker green covered the side. Also, only one side of the Low V is painted, the side that faces the yard. If it weren't for my idea of rust proofing, even this misguided painting would not have been done. The cost for moving the PATH car to TMNY, I was informed, cost $15,000. Where did that money come from? Not from the gate, that's for sure. The gate proceeds are literally peanuts, nobody goes there. The museum, in effect, paid 15k for a dead trailer. Why couldn't that money have been applied to saving the black cars? I have a whole lot more to say about what went on up there at TMNY. Stay tuned. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Evan on Sun Dec 20 11:10:39 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Sun Dec 20 02:30:10 2015. I think the museum is moving forward with momentum it hasn't had in quite a while thanks to the efforts of the volunteers you are criticizing. Yes, it cost precious money to get PATH 143 here, but it fits well with the mission and goals of TMNY. Look at the photos and videos posted by the media about 143's arrival. Notice all the people. Notice it was escorted by several dozen first responder vehicles with lights flashing and sirens blaring. Evidence its now the most culturally significant holding of the museum and as a result will boost future visitorship and fundraising efforts. Stay tuned indeed. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 13:16:56 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Strike_Mark on Sat Dec 19 02:27:41 2015. That's great. Do you have a link? |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 15:12:19 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Dec 19 22:13:28 2015. Yeah well it's not going to the 9/11 museum. It's going to a TROLLEY museum, where tourists can take selfies next to it. So what's the harm in actually OPERATING it????? |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Dec 20 15:13:24 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 15:12:19 2015. are you willing to foot the bill to get it in running condition |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 17:04:17 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Evan on Sun Dec 20 11:10:39 2015. I'll visit when it is OPERATING, not sitting stuffed and mounted. I'll even throw a few bucks towards the restoration. I bet there are many others like me. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 17:05:31 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by ren on Sun Dec 20 02:30:10 2015. While I appreciate the efforts of all the volunteers, your stories are interesting. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 20 19:34:36 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 15:12:19 2015. I'll just agree to disagree with that decision & leave it at that. Too bad. |
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Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Dec 20 19:36:10 2015, in response to Re: PATH 143 arrives at TMNY, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 20 19:34:36 2015. Why can't you agree with the facts presented and then answer the question? |
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