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| Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? (1372233) | |
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| (1372233) | |
Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015 I question this as a commuter. There are various emergency gates and the floor-to-ceiling exit-only turnstiles along the arrival platform at Broad Street. Do they serve a purpose? As far as I can tell, they serve only to slow us all down when we're trying to exit crowded trains and everybody wants to squeeze through at the same time.Why have fare control at a discharge-only platform? The only answers I can imagine, in descending order of logic, are: 1) For G.O.'s if there's a need to run trains from the Nassau Street line into Brooklyn, for example as a shuttle when the Lex is out. OK, this might make some sense, but since there aren't any incoming turnstiles, I don't think that reason holds water. 2) They are vestiges of the years prior to 2010 when the M used to run from here southbound to the West End Line. OK, but, how much do these turnstiles and gates cost to maintain? If there's no other reason for keeping them besides the fact that removal would cost money, that's lame. Keeping them up probably costs money too! 3) They're there because that's just how it's done. In NYC, Subway platforms have to have fare collection devices, even where there are no fares to collect. That reason would be even more lame. 4) They prevent the homeless from coming in through the out door and coming down and living in the tunnels. Ehhhh, well, they'll figure out other ways to do that. If that's the reason, I don't think it works. Are there any other exit-only platforms in the subway system? Are they handled the same way? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Andy on Fri Nov 6 22:13:17 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. 145 and Lenox, NB on the #3, is exit only. Don't know how it's handled.Have only gotten on a SB train there. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 6 22:26:16 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. Probably because it was never intended as an exit only platform and may be needed again as a regular station platform with the revival of downtown. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Nov 6 22:29:30 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. 238 on the n'bound 1 is also exit-only,What do you suggest -- open passageways out? I suspect the reason is to keep non-paying trespassers out of the station. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Nov 6 23:41:52 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. The Wall Street exit of Broad Street station has a mezzanine with crossover. Further, it's possible for a dispatcher to send a Jamaica-bound train out from R1 track. The fare control at the Exchange Place exit prevents people from entering, crossing over, and boarding an outbound train.145th Street on the 3 and 238th Street on the 1 are also exit only northbound. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Nov 7 02:35:10 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. IINM, 200 St on the A is also exit-only NB. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Hamilton Express on Sat Nov 7 06:42:31 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by K. Trout on Sat Nov 7 02:35:10 2015. I just went through there a few weeks back. Lol. :PActually, why is the northbound platform exit only (yet there's an underpass to access it from the downtown platform)? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 7 07:21:07 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. Who is to say a weekend G.O. would never send a J train to Prospect Park. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Nov 7 09:57:21 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by italianstallion on Fri Nov 6 22:29:30 2015. Sure otherwise the homeless will make their home there. Beyond that, a train is a train. It may be the last stop on this train but it is the first stop on the return train. If ewe can get down there, ewe can ride the next train to Jamaica. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Nov 7 12:16:26 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Andy on Fri Nov 6 22:13:17 2015. So is 238/Bway on the #1. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 7 16:50:45 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Nov 7 09:57:21 2015. They COULD close off the crossover between the platforms and remove the fare control on the southbound side, making it like the PATH arrival platform at Newark. But that would mean that, if someone missed the stop at Fulton St., they'd be out of luck if they wanted to get back there and change for another line. And it would make it just about impossible to ever reinstate service from there to Brooklyn through the Montague tunnel. Not that such service is likely in the foreseeable future, but I doubt they would want to totally foreclose the possibility. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 7 17:05:45 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 7 16:50:45 2015. if someone missed the stop at Fulton St., they'd be out of luck if they wanted to get back there and change for another lineNowhere near as bad as if someone on a Newark PATH train misses their stop at Journal Sq. You have to wait 8 minutes just to get off the train, and there's no way to go back on the same fare. As for Broad St I would agree to leave it alone. Especially when one looks at certain sections of Southern Brooklyn, you almost know that connector to Montague will be in action again before long. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 7 17:10:16 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 7 16:50:45 2015. PATH Platform H has turnstiles. Very often, weekend trains depart from there. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 7 17:59:42 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 7 17:10:16 2015. Do exiting passengers always have to use the turnstiles? Or are there gates that are opened when the platform is exit only so that people can depart more quickly? I know there weren't always turnstiles there. When were they installed? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Nov 7 18:33:29 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 7 17:59:42 2015. I don't remember when they were installed, but you have to go through them. It has only been a few years that the outbound Harrison station has had them. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Nov 7 19:45:24 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Nov 7 17:59:42 2015. Yes, the turnstiles are always used. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 8 10:12:54 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. For years, 36th St on the IND was exit-only eastbound. Only changed when the Metrocard was introduced. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 8 13:08:32 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 7 17:05:45 2015. I agree that reopening of the Nassau Street connection to Brooklyn is a question of when, not if. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 8 15:33:27 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 8 10:12:54 2015. If I recall, I think 46 St was also. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Nov 8 16:05:54 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by randyo on Sat Nov 7 12:16:26 2015. That one has floor-to-ceiling exit-only turnstiles as well. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Nov 28 22:54:59 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Hamilton Express on Sat Nov 7 06:42:31 2015. Because there's an underpass to access it from the downtown platform. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Nov 28 22:57:41 2015, in response to Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by BronxOest on Fri Nov 6 21:39:47 2015. Because of this…
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Nov 28 23:20:54 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Nov 28 22:57:41 2015. Wow, it looks . . beautiful! |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by The Silence on Sun Nov 29 10:47:16 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by italianstallion on Sat Nov 28 23:20:54 2015. even better, it looks... CLEAN! |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 29 11:45:06 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 8 10:12:54 2015. That's bizarre. Unlike the other examples, there are many places you can get to from there. For the others, you can only go one additional stop before you get to a dead end. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Nov 29 12:55:09 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 29 11:45:06 2015. It is bizarre, though both stops (36th and 46th) are in low density areas. Perhaps they figured eastbound riders could easily walk west to the previous station, which, in each case is not that far. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 18:04:08 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by italianstallion on Sun Nov 29 12:55:09 2015. I wouldn't call the area around 46th Street "low density." |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 18:05:35 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by The Silence on Sun Nov 29 10:47:16 2015. Thanks. Unfortunately, it's only two stops away from its polar opposite. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 29 20:40:41 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 18:04:08 2015. Neither would I! |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Nov 29 20:58:22 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 18:04:08 2015. Are we talking the 46th street R/M stop in Queens? On reflection, I realize there are some projects nearby in addition to the low-rise row houses and semidetached ones I was thinking of. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 21:10:53 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by italianstallion on Sun Nov 29 20:58:22 2015. Did you ride the Billy S train? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Nov 29 21:33:29 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 21:10:53 2015. I was there. I heard the musicians playing on the platform, and then in the train (car 484, the second car). They got off at 59th St., and so did I. Although scheduled for 4:45, the train didn't actually depart 145h St. until a bit after 5 PM. Were you there? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 22:13:45 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Nov 29 21:33:29 2015. Yep, I was there. I was sitting in 1802. Rode the whole round trip. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Sun Nov 29 22:41:00 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by italianstallion on Fri Nov 6 22:29:30 2015. Why would you ever want to have exit-only platforms/stops? If someone wants to pay a fare to go one stop, who cares? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Nov 29 23:05:59 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 22:13:45 2015. what is the Billy S train? |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 23:12:04 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Express Rider on Sun Nov 29 23:05:59 2015. what is the Billy S train?Undergound A train concert to play "Take the A Train" (1375549) |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 23:12:15 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by italianstallion on Sun Nov 29 20:58:22 2015. The Woodside Houses, a shopping center, a few schools, and many residences are within walking distance of the station. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Nov 29 23:16:35 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 18:04:08 2015. However, 46th St. is low density in this neighborhood:(and check out the street view) https://www.google.com/maps/place/W+46th+St,+Indianapolis,+IN+46234/@39.8374281,-86.3190927,3a,75y,256.36h,91.99t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s7rHOTVd-EHV2pbXxNGjTag!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D7rHOTVd-EHV2pbXxNGjTag%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D392%26h%3D106%26yaw%3D228.66563%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x886ca95ef6b5fe35:0x1c6c8901609c773 |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Nov 29 23:19:40 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 18:05:35 2015. Probably because NYSE is right upstairs... |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Nov 29 23:20:49 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Nov 29 23:12:15 2015. Yes, I agree with that. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Nov 29 23:22:17 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 23:12:04 2015. I figured it out (too simple - forest for the trees) just before clicking on your post....!Thanks for the link. :-) (When I first read your post, I thought, who the heck is Billy S? thought maybe a subchatter, or an MTA person). Love Ellington & Strayhorn's music very much. Don't have any right now, since I sold my collection a coupld of years back. Slowly building it back up though. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Nov 29 23:32:12 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Express Rider on Sun Nov 29 23:22:17 2015. No problem. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Nov 29 23:47:02 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by displaced angeleno on Sun Nov 29 22:41:00 2015. "If someone wants to pay a fare to go one stop, who cares?"It isn't that anyone cares that someone wanted to go only one stop, but rather the expense of installing entrance equipment at a stop where only a handful of people a year might use that equipment. |
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Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control? |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Nov 30 08:34:43 2015, in response to Re: Broad St. J/Z - why fare control?, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun Nov 29 23:47:02 2015. The expense is probably more maintenance rather installation, but is the maintenance expense for one turnstile (even of the HEET variety, which is presumably what would be needed) really that great? In the days of tokens, they would have had to send people regularly to collect tokens from entrances that might not have any, but that is no longer a consideration. At 238th St. on the 1, there have been a number of G.O.s where downtown trains bypass the stop, and being able to ride the uptown train to 242nd to get the downtown train would have been helpful. That's not a consideration at the two track station at 145th/Lenox, but still, would one turnstile really be a major expense? |
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