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| LIRR M-9 Screw Up (1358884) | |
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| (1358885) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 7 21:48:35 2015, in response to LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Jul 7 21:47:08 2015. not only LIRR but MN and Kawasaki engineering , big Fing deal so we loose another seat. |
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| (1358887) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 7 22:23:52 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 7 21:48:35 2015. Sounds like $72 allen wrench design to me. I mean how can the onboard PTC hardware be that huge. Send the designers back to work. |
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| (1358891) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 7 22:59:42 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 7 22:23:52 2015. Ah ... there's yer problem! :)
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| (1358892) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 7 23:30:27 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 7 22:59:42 2015. Clearly Soviet rocket designers. They built bigger, better rockets 'cause they had no decent miniaturization of electronics. |
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| (1358893) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 7 23:37:23 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 7 23:30:27 2015. And like I keep trying to remind idiots, those tubes are largely impervious to an EMP attack. It's all those sensitive silicon things and tiny coil windings that are going to fail if that ever happens.All glory to the pentode! :) |
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| (1358901) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 8 06:43:05 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 7 22:23:52 2015. It probably isn't too small, it's likely the government regulation is outdated. |
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| (1358906) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:27:12 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 7 23:37:23 2015. Seriously? That's interesting... I thought an EMP would zap everything, even incandescent bulbs... |
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| (1358907) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:28:27 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 8 06:43:05 2015. Knowing NOTHING about the technical aspects of PTC, but being quite familiar with government (I've worked for NYS for more than 2 decades..) I'm inclined to agree with you. |
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| (1358910) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 8 07:39:05 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Jul 7 21:48:35 2015. As for that electrical lockers behind the full width cab on the M-7, I had thought it was eliminated on the M-9. Perhaps part or all of it has to go back.But evidently Kawasaki has been sound asleep the last couple of years and hasn't read US newspapers. |
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| (1358913) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Jul 8 08:09:45 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 8 07:39:05 2015. they design what you specify , but after M-8 they should have caught it too and asked LIRR/MN engineering how about this here.... |
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| (1358916) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jul 8 09:40:25 2015, in response to LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Jul 7 21:47:08 2015. I don't know where those figures are coming from. ACSES was added to the Arrow III's (and currently the SL-IVs) without needing additional space. It's software that goes in the cab signal box. |
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| (1358917) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jul 8 09:41:36 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jul 8 06:43:05 2015. I believe the newspaper report is bunk. |
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| (1358921) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 10:11:07 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 7 23:37:23 2015. Who exactly do you keep trying to remind? Do you consult with MTA engineering? |
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| (1358930) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 10:52:16 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jul 8 09:40:25 2015. Page #2 of yesterday's Newsday. |
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| (1358931) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jul 8 10:54:34 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 10:52:16 2015. And they know about railcar design because? I'd like to see an accounting for what is taking up all the extra space. |
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| (1358932) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 11:07:51 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Jul 8 10:54:34 2015. I assume that the reporter got theinformation from the MTA. Depending on whether it was an engineer or a spokesperson might determine how accurate the info is. Do you have the credentials to ceitically evaluate the information? |
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| (1358936) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by Q4 on Wed Jul 8 12:18:04 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 11:07:51 2015. This was reported at last months LIRR Committee meeting. |
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| (1358957) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment |
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Posted by Jace on Wed Jul 8 14:25:19 2015, in response to LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Jul 7 21:47:08 2015. Uh, not quite. The M9 PTC system is two parts: ATC and ACSES. The 8 cubic foot space provision is for the ACSES equipment only. The ATC portion of the equipment is integrated into the car design. The latest and greatest ACSES equipment turns out to take up more space than originally thought (17 cubic feet), that's the rub. There is no FRA requirement saying that so many square or cubic feet are needed, they only specify performance.I wouldn't call this a design deficiency or a screw up. They didn't know what the ACSES equipment would look like, came up with an estimate likely based on earlier versions of the equipment but came up short. Consider that the original provision would have been met with a locker 2'x 2'x 2'. Now it requires one 2'x 2'x 4.25', not a huge difference but a challenge finding space in an already cramped car as the LIRR noted at the meeting. I would imagine there'd be plenty of complaints if instead they overestimated the space and ended up knocking out a seat or two thanks to a giant, largely empty ACSES locker. Newsday is simply playing this up to make the LIRR look bad (now there's a surprise), no complaints from them about the delays and costs associated with beefing up the rear end collision posts, also discussed in last month's committee meeting. |
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| (1358961) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Jul 8 15:15:39 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment, posted by Jace on Wed Jul 8 14:25:19 2015. With LIRR and MN engineering both involved, they sure as shit knew how much space ACSES required as the M-8 has a cab/atc/ACSES system factory installed by Kawasaki, so lets stop making excuses for the incompetent. |
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| (1358963) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 8 15:41:27 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment, posted by Jace on Wed Jul 8 14:25:19 2015. I don't know, but it sounds like 1 seat is gone.Of course, we could abolish full width cabs as with the Silverliner V and get a couple of seats back. |
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| (1358967) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment |
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Posted by Jace on Wed Jul 8 15:53:44 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Jul 8 15:15:39 2015. I don't know the details, and chances are you don't either, but since part of the PTC equipment is supplied by the railroad and the remainder by Kawasaki, it could have been a misunderstanding of scope. There's lots of room to speculate, I prefer to give the engineers the benefit of the doubt. But this misses the point which is that these sorts of issues come up all the time during car design. You deal with them through waivers or change orders - standard practice. What makes this a little different is that the railroad presented the issue to the board (probably because it'll add some cost (which will use contingency money already in place)) and then Newsday decided to tar them due to implied incompetence. As I said, if they overestimated the space needed, they'd get the same treatment so long as Newsday maintains their agenda. |
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| (1358975) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 8 17:00:28 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:27:12 2015. Nope. The simple explanation of what EMP does is it creates a very high voltage, very short time duration pulse. It's exactly the same for effects as getting hit by lightning, the difference being that the voltage is induced rather than directly applied.A fairly decent explanation on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse |
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| (1358977) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 8 17:03:12 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 10:11:07 2015. Why, people like you! :) |
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| (1358981) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment |
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Posted by Bill West on Wed Jul 8 17:24:45 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 PTC Equipment, posted by Jace on Wed Jul 8 15:53:44 2015. If a specification has no imperfections and zero assumptions then it is not a spec, it is a finished design. The implication is that it can be cheaper to arbitrate and fix some of the communication flaws during the job than to spend an excessive effort on perfecting the spec details. Where the buyer doesn't have the skill or staff time to do this higher amount of design himself he has no cost effective choice but to work via a degree of trust and fair bargaining with the supplier. The counter approach of having the supplier fully prepare the design before bidding doesn't work either. As he loses as many or more bids as he wins, his mark up for sales effort would be more than the buyers would want to see creep into the price.In relationships like this the finger pointing is less important than the long term cost efficiency of using the trust approach. Bill |
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| (1358984) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 17:43:58 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 8 17:03:12 2015. What are you talking about? Aren't you supposed to be a marine biologist this week? |
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| (1358986) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 8 17:57:13 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Jul 8 17:43:58 2015. I believe that I've explained my specialties sufficiently over in OT, you really need to do something about that reading comprehension issue. |
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| (1359044) | |
Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Jul 9 10:50:26 2015, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 Screw Up, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jul 8 17:03:12 2015. You mean tha you aren't a latex salesman? |
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