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| NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? (1358696) | |
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| (1358697) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by piyer on Sun Jul 5 20:39:05 2015, in response to NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by tramrunner on Sun Jul 5 19:37:44 2015. I would imagine that vast stretches of trolley tracks remain in place, albeit under a blanket of asphalt. I've seen the ones you mentioned at Cortelyou Road, there are some others showing through at 7th Ave. & Bay Ridge Avenue (69th Street), and I remember back in the late 1980s, when they were rebuilding Brighton Beach Avenue, seeing them having to rip out the old rails - that was the first time I realized that the alley next to the supermarket was an old trolley right-of-way.The tracks, however, are probably not historical landmarks, nor do I think they ever would be. They are too extensive and stand (lay?) in the way of under-street infrastructure. |
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| (1358698) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Jul 5 21:02:28 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by piyer on Sun Jul 5 20:39:05 2015. AFAIK, the Church Avenue Line tracks are intact. I watched them being asphalted over after the line was abandoned in 1956. The lines were abandoned so fast (most in just five years--all in 10) that I never saw any actually being taken up. |
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| (1358712) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by zac on Sun Jul 5 22:43:40 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Sun Jul 5 21:02:28 2015. There are tracks visible at Parkside Ave at Park Circle at the Parade Grounds that were just cold patched over in the last week or so. It won't take long for the cold patch to come off, and they are still visible anyway. |
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| (1358735) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 6 09:48:15 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by zac on Sun Jul 5 22:43:40 2015. There were three tracks on Coney Island Avenue for a stretch between Parkside and Caton, and a switching complex for Franklin Avenue cars to be turned back there. I wonder if any of that still exists?With the City so cheap, I don't see any reason to rebuild a road just because trolley tracks are buried there, unless the track was laid on wooden ties and they are rotting out. It's happened, creating a washboard effect. |
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| (1358797) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 6 20:51:00 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 6 09:48:15 2015. I wonder if the ones on Jamaica Ave, between Pennsylvania Ave and Highland park, are still visible? |
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| (1358800) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 6 21:01:27 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jul 6 20:51:00 2015. If they're there, someday they will be visible. |
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| (1358801) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 6 21:15:02 2015, in response to NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by tramrunner on Sun Jul 5 19:37:44 2015. Here's a piece of trolley turn at the corner of 13th Avenue and 39th Street, Brooklyn. |
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| (1358822) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 7 01:10:00 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 6 21:01:27 2015. I just wondered if they removed them from the street or if they are still there. |
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| (1358834) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 7 09:15:02 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 7 01:10:00 2015. I don't know. I'll just say that removing trolley tracks is a big job. NYC doesn't seems to have done it unless the street needed to be rebuilt anyway. I mean, every now and then a bit of conduit track even surfaces in Manhattan, and I would think rebuilding a street there would be a high priority than Brooklyn. |
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| (1358844) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Tue Jul 7 12:43:15 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jul 7 01:10:00 2015. I remember trolley tracks under the el from Forrest Ave to Fresh Pond Rd in the PRW section that was fenced off and even under the Fresh Pond Rd station. Karl |
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| (1358846) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 7 13:26:47 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 6 09:48:15 2015. During WW2, metal was so desperately needed that abandoned lines, like on Lexington Avenue in Manhattan, were pulled up - I've seen pictures.But otherwise, it probably wouldn't be cost effective to remove them, unless the street is getting a total rebuild, or if the rails become a hazard. |
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| (1358847) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 7 13:28:27 2015, in response to NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by tramrunner on Sun Jul 5 19:37:44 2015. I think the ones on O and P Streets, in Georgetown (Washington DC) have been landmarked. But otherwise- not as far as I know, nor would I be in favor of doing so... |
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| (1358856) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 7 16:07:29 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 7 13:26:47 2015. Not too many lines were abandoned during WWII. The replacement buses used petroleum and rubber. Some lines were even extended or reverted to streetcars during the war, at least two in Brooklyn. |
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| (1358857) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 7 16:08:54 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 7 13:28:27 2015. I don't think the streetcar track on Main Street in Northport is landmarked, but it should be. |
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| (1358904) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:23:24 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 7 16:07:29 2015. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Nevertheless, I know that back in the (imminently) pre-internet days, I saw a book with pictures of a crew ripping out the tracks on Lexington Ave, in the early 1940s.Also, I think Lloyd Ultan's "The Bronx 1920-1950- It was only yesterday" (or very similar title) shows a crew removing tracks in The Bronx- I forget the location. |
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| (1358905) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:25:23 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 7 16:08:54 2015. I don't know that one, but if it's reasonably intact and the area is historic, I might be inclined to agree.I'd also be in favor of preserving the Jay St. Connecting RR tracks in Brooklyn. But for stuff that's been covered for 60-70 years, no. Can't save everything... |
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| (1358922) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jul 8 10:21:31 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:25:23 2015. Both (Northport and Jay Street Connecting) set an historical tone for their areas, so I imagine they would be kept for that alone. |
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| (1358924) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jul 8 10:28:14 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by piyer on Sun Jul 5 20:39:05 2015. I remember when those trolleys ran down that alley. |
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| (1358945) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 8 12:58:22 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Wed Jul 8 10:21:31 2015. if Northport fixed it up and bought a replica car they'd have a halfway decent tourist attraction. |
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| (1359144) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 10 09:32:07 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 8 12:58:22 2015. I've wondered about that. The track runs quite a distance on Main Street, for the whole downtown plus a little, then turns onto Woodbine and runs a couple of blocks to the former site of the car barn. It looks unbroken and is continuous except for a piece at the turn from Main into Woodbine.It MIGHT be in good enough shape to run a light horse car up and down Main. People would be pretty pissed if they invested in a car and then found out the track wasn't good enough and had to spend money to redo it. Also, the horses would have to be kept and fed and groomed, and they would have to be led around the car at each end multiple times a day. Then people would discover what everyone knew a century-plus ago. Maybe a battery car? |
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| (1359271) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 15:27:31 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 7 09:15:02 2015. They ripped out a good chunk of old narrow gauge streetcar track along South Broadway in Denver when that section was completely repaved with concrete a few years ago. Ditto for Evans Ave. when that street was redone in the early 90s. |
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| (1359272) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 15:29:19 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Jul 8 07:23:24 2015. New York Railways streetcar lines were gone by 1936, so that trackage was ripped out during the war. IIRC 125th St. still has TARS rails beneath the asphalt. |
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| (1359273) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jul 11 15:45:21 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 15:29:19 2015. That's what I thought... |
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| (1359285) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by numbersix on Sat Jul 11 18:25:53 2015, in response to NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by tramrunner on Sun Jul 5 19:37:44 2015. Broadway between West 66 and 65 St. in Manhattan is being repaved. You can see the trolley track southbound on Broadway right next to the median. Won't last long once they repave. |
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| (1359294) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 20:03:13 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by numbersix on Sat Jul 11 18:25:53 2015. IIRC the roof of the Contract One subway line just clears the conduits. |
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| (1359299) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by The Silence on Sat Jul 11 20:28:19 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 10 09:32:07 2015. they can be internal combustion hybrids. That's what Savannah has, an ex-Melbourne car with an onboard diesel generator and a battery pack. |
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| (1359484) | |
Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks? |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jul 14 09:14:08 2015, in response to Re: NYC Trolley track traces: Are they registered as National Historic Landmarks?, posted by The Silence on Sat Jul 11 20:28:19 2015. I'm thinking more about how much weight the old track could take.I think it would be a worthwhile tourist thing. I don't know if there is any surviving streetcar rail on Long Island anywhere close to that length, if at all. |
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