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| PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights (1349538) | |
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| (1349538) | |
PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 12:42:47 2015 According to this article, PATH is having problems in its negotiations with Amtrak on trackage rights involving the Harrison station (and probably the rest of the NE Corridor area which PATH uses.While no great detail on the issues are given, this (while it will no doubt be resolved) should be interesting to watch. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/04/good_news_and_bad_for_harrison_path_riders_awaitin.html |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Apr 25 13:03:27 2015, in response to PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 12:42:47 2015. I didn't know Amtrak owned the PATH tracks |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Apr 25 13:15:11 2015, in response to PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 12:42:47 2015. Isn't the Amtrak ROW seperate from PATH? |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 13:16:32 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Apr 25 13:03:27 2015. They own the right of way from a point north (or is that west) of Journal Square where the NE Corridor tracks "merge" with the PATH tracks. It dates back to the days of the H & M and Pennsylvania RR (and the joint service agreements).I am sure someone here can give the exact spot. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 13:18:37 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by northshore on Sat Apr 25 13:15:11 2015. You have to remember that PATH tracks are parallel to the NE Corridor tracks and in fact at one point cross under a section.The separate portion would be south/east of where the ROWs "merge". |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 13:19:54 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by northshore on Sat Apr 25 13:15:11 2015. All that means is that there is no crossover between the two, which there is not. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 13:25:06 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 13:16:32 2015. Shouldn't the Port Authority have grandfather's rights along its row..? |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 25 14:48:04 2015, in response to PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 12:42:47 2015. Path probably wants some improvements and AMTK is balking in favor of more money. (Now I will go look at the article to see what it says.)ROAR |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 14:54:47 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 13:25:06 2015. How ? The PRR far outdates the PA. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Apr 25 15:20:55 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 13:25:06 2015. Amtrak still,owns the ROW and the PA leases it for, I believe, $1.00 a year. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 25 15:50:40 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 13:16:32 2015. Wouldn't PATH, as the PRR/H&M's successor in interest, retain trackage rights dating back to common ownership? |
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| (1349567) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 15:52:46 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 25 15:50:40 2015. Trackage rights NOT = ownership |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 25 15:57:48 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 15:52:46 2015. I get that...but PATH as H&M/PRR pre-dated Amtrak...I thought they would retain trackage rights all the way through? |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 16:00:04 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 25 15:57:48 2015. Amtrak inherited property title from PC & PRR. That supercedes PATH's and H&M's mere trackage rights |
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| (1349594) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 25 18:46:51 2015, in response to PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 12:42:47 2015. 105 years of no trackage rights problems, and then all of a sudden this?There are no more shared tracks; PATH runs on its own tracks and Amtrak/NJT theirs, and there aren't even any shared crossovers anymore since the Centre Street Branch was disconnected. It's impossible for the rebuilding of Harrison to interfere with anything Amtrak or NJT. |
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| (1349595) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 25 18:47:48 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 25 14:48:04 2015. They're playing the "Superstorm" Sandy card too. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Apr 25 23:38:15 2015, in response to PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Allan on Sat Apr 25 12:42:47 2015. NJ.com link.Why shouldn't Amtrak go after the PANJNY for a few bucks when Chrisco's cronies attempt to use PATH as a piggybank to support their redevelopment schemes? |
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| (1349627) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 23:55:46 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 25 23:38:15 2015. Not to mention screwing up the offloading of traffic from THEIR tunnels into new ones? :) |
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| (1349628) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Tramrunner on Sun Apr 26 00:13:04 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 25 23:55:46 2015. Do you mean, building new tunnels for Path?By the way, there was one idea to make PATH-like subway in Odessa, Ukrane where both combination of existing railways and projected tubes was proposed. And this plan existed on official level. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 00:31:52 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 25 23:38:15 2015. Path as a piggy bank??? Surely you jest. The original deal was PA got the real estate which could generate rents in return for promising to continually upgrade PATH and not abandon service--H&M was IIRC bankrupt. |
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| (1349634) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 26 01:05:00 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Tramrunner on Sun Apr 26 00:13:04 2015. Actually, it was the hole in Macy's basement for NJT that was aborted. Amtrak still wants to build replacement tunnels for the existing, and they need to get money for that from somewhere. The majority of trains currently running on that ROW now are New Jersey Transit. PATH is kinda off to the side there. |
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| (1349636) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Apr 26 01:34:13 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 00:31:52 2015. That was then, this is now. Things change quite a bit in 40 some odd years, and it opens up whole new avenues of graft and corruption for our governor to explore. |
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| (1349639) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 26 02:19:00 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 26 01:34:13 2015. Wow. Only triple the profit on the turnaround? Looks like bro ain't such a great businessman either. |
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| (1349645) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 02:43:12 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 26 01:34:13 2015. Umm, I don't think PATH is showing a profit on passenger service. Certainly not if one honestly counts the expenses of ROW and fleet maintenance letalone capital expenditures for fleet replacements.As to Christie's family getting perhaps early warning of the station project and thus reaping profits, the only part of this which might help PATH would be if they had a direct real estate tax funding deal. |
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| (1349683) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 26 10:14:42 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 25 18:46:51 2015. No it is not impossible that a new Hamilton station would interfere with AMTK. The tracks will remain exactly where they are, but the BUILDING will, it seems, infringe on an open space that AMTK wants to incorporate into a fourth mane track.So both jurisdictions are plotting plans for the same plot of land. Whose plot of land is it anyway. If it is AMTK owned land they will get their way by right of Federal Dictatorship, if however the land has been owned by the state, county, or city it may shake out otherwise. Otherwise it wilt knowt. ROAR |
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| (1349687) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 26 10:46:37 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 26 10:14:42 2015. Hamilton? No, that's much further down the road; PATH doesn't serve there. |
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| (1349688) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 26 10:48:26 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 26 10:14:42 2015. BTW, there is no land where the new Harrison station could ever possibly interfere with any new tracks Amtrak might want to build. |
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| (1349725) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 26 15:20:13 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 26 10:48:26 2015. OK, so go tell that to AMTK. |
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| (1349736) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 26 16:30:58 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 26 15:20:13 2015. They'll get the message soon enough. Besides, they'll never get the dough from DC for their grandiose and ever-changing plans. |
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| (1349760) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Apr 26 17:17:39 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 25 15:50:40 2015. Trackage rights don't last forever unless that's part of the agreement. |
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| (1349761) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Apr 26 17:17:57 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by northshore on Sat Apr 25 13:15:11 2015. No. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Apr 26 17:18:30 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 25 18:46:51 2015. Wrong. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Apr 26 19:40:56 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 14:54:47 2015. But Amtrak doesn't. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 26 21:31:50 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 25 18:46:51 2015. Maybe Amtrak wants a little more space for that 4th track. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Mon Apr 27 00:46:37 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 26 10:14:42 2015. a fourth mane trackHow many lions have four manes? |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 27 00:50:35 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Jon Bell on Mon Apr 27 00:46:37 2015. Pollution from the ground water out there with all the oil in it. Roar. :) |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 27 01:00:14 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 27 00:50:35 2015. Aww, not because of radiation? That's not as much fun for a monster movie premise. :-) |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 27 01:15:51 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 27 01:00:14 2015. You never grew up with "Swamp Thing" when Adrienne Barbeau was a thing? Tsk-tsk. :) |
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| (1349843) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Apr 27 01:30:10 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 02:43:12 2015. Umm, I don't think PATH is showing a profit on passenger service.Where did I say they were? I'm not sure where I even hinted at the possibility PATH might be profitable. But just because they're not profitable does not mean Chrisco's grafters can't make a few bucks on the station rebuild. Why should Amtrak be forced to throw even more money into PATH's station rebuild when the PANJNY is already being fleeced by our governor? IMHO it's only good sense for Amtrak to ask PATH for money to rebuild the station that sits on Amtrak's property. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 27 02:11:58 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 27 01:15:51 2015. Kudos for that, but I grew with "The Giant Behemoth", "Earth vs. the Giant Spider", "Fiend Without a Face", and of course "Godzilla". :-) |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 27 02:20:40 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 27 02:11:58 2015. Heh. Gojira, bro ... :PYeah, that too. Crappy movies made on a "hot dog at the beach" budget. Now THERE'S something they don't do anymore. Heh. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by kp5308 on Tue Apr 28 21:08:36 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 26 01:34:13 2015. Now now Will....if they all had a "D" behind their names this would not be a big deal to you. Jersey is pay to play no matter which party is in power. Can you say Menendez? Or Corzine?Harrison station needed the work. Period. I'm sure there are some "D" types making a good buck off this. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Terry Kennedy on Sat May 2 01:34:48 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Apr 26 00:31:52 2015. The PA's big concern with the H&M bankruptcy was that a total liquidation (as opposed to re-organization) of the H&M would discontinue service on the H&M's two trans-Hudson lines, and this would generate increased demand on the PA's Hudson River crossings which the PA would not be able to handle. Buying the H&M out of bankruptcy and continuing the service was felt to be lower cost than letting it fail. Source: "STUDY / OF / THE HUDSON AND MANHATTAN RAILROAD / by / The Port of New York Authority / January, 1961"Also, the idea was to pick up the paused-due-to-bankruptcy improvements to Hudson Terminal - at that time of the WTC proposal, it was planned for the East Side. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat May 2 02:43:40 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by Terry Kennedy on Sat May 2 01:34:48 2015. Thanks for the reference. |
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| (1350554) | |
Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by northshore on Sat May 2 13:30:46 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Apr 26 17:17:57 2015. There is no connection between PATH & Amtrak tracks. They just parallel each other. |
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Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights |
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Posted by WillD on Sat May 2 18:46:32 2015, in response to Re: PATH having issues with Amtrak on ROW trackage rights, posted by kp5308 on Tue Apr 28 21:08:36 2015. Haha, leave it to you to defend corruption when the right people benefit from it. |
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