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| (1341803) | |
Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 28 19:59:39 2015 
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 20:20:21 2015, in response to Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 28 19:59:39 2015. Wow. What a mess! And absolutely confirms why government and not two competing private railroad entities would be the only way that anything would have happened at all. And to add to it, even government couldn't agree. No wonder it never got built. :( |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Feb 28 21:13:36 2015, in response to Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 28 19:59:39 2015. Ah, yes, on the same map, the "Port Authority's Proposed Brooklyn-New Jersey Freight Tunnel," the reason why the Port Authority was chartered and which remains to be constructed despite being desperately needed. The passenger tunnel to Staten Island would be useful too, though. |
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(Sponsored) |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Feb 28 22:03:33 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Feb 28 21:13:36 2015. The passenger tunnel was actually put out on bids, but no one wanted the job. Whether or not it was too big a job, or interested contractors were discoureged is a matter of speculation. The Pennsy RR which controlled the LIRR did not want the B&O to profit from either freight or passenger service to/from Staten Island. And Gov. Al Smith was a friend of the Pennsy. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by vfrt on Sun Mar 1 07:52:31 2015, in response to Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 28 19:59:39 2015. Brooklyn shaft under Owl's Head Park, SI shaft filled in when Verrazano was built, roughly where toll plaza is now. Doubtful if any of the Brooklyn connection from 4 Ave & 59 St to Owl's Head was constructed. |
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| (1341837) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Mar 1 08:37:12 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by vfrt on Sun Mar 1 07:52:31 2015. This was for freight and rail service. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 09:35:36 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by vfrt on Sun Mar 1 07:52:31 2015. wrong! the S.I. shaft was at the car entrance to the ferry terminal.the bklyn.tunnel was built into the con ed plant and under owls head park to senator st. I have posted on this several times. |
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| (1341842) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sun Mar 1 09:53:37 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 20:20:21 2015. This is a perfect representaion of NY transit and City inability to get'er done. Politics and greed. Business as usual. |
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| (1341844) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by vfrt on Sun Mar 1 10:56:57 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 09:35:36 2015. The BMT tunnel? Thought I once read that the shaft for that tunnel was filled in when the built the bridge, and that it was near the current toll plazas. Do you think that any of that BMT tunnel was built in Bay Ridge under Bay Ridge Ave or 68 Street???? |
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| (1341845) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 11:03:07 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by vfrt on Sun Mar 1 10:56:57 2015. I think you are confusing the former south beach branch of sirt at the veranzanno toll plaza with the narrows tunnel.what was built was built by the city for a combo freight/passenger tunnel.I have spoken to 2 different guys who were in the tunnel at different times and have posted such. |
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| (1341849) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 1 11:27:17 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 20:20:21 2015. Yes, because of government. |
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| (1341850) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 1 11:28:28 2015, in response to Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Feb 28 19:59:39 2015. For the record, $4 million in 1922 dollars = $55.6 million in 2015 dollars. Would never be that cheap today, even with TBMs—thanks to government. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Mar 1 12:15:49 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Feb 28 20:20:21 2015. Tubes large enough to take "the largest freight or passenger cars entering the metropolitan district" in 1922 would be too small to take double stacks today. I wouldn't be easy to enlarge underwater tubes. |
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| (1341856) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 12:31:31 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by merrick1 on Sun Mar 1 12:15:49 2015. none of the tubes are under water. |
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| (1341862) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 1 13:47:22 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 1 11:28:28 2015. That wouidn't even cover the EIS. |
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| (1341868) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Mar 1 14:14:54 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 11:03:07 2015. Steve, can you still access those tunnel headers from Owl's Head Park? |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 1 14:34:22 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 1 13:47:22 2015. Yes it would. I think. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Sun Mar 1 14:59:38 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 11:03:07 2015. Where's the access point in Owls Head park? |
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| (1341876) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Mar 1 15:14:29 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Dj Hammers on Sun Mar 1 14:59:38 2015. That's what I'm trying to ask da tunnelrat! I think they were sealed off, but I'm not 100% sure. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 15:46:15 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Mar 1 14:14:54 2015. no |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Mar 1 15:51:31 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 15:46:15 2015. Thought so! |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Sun Mar 1 16:28:53 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 15:46:15 2015. So they can't be inspected? |
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| (1341906) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 16:58:28 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Dj Hammers on Sun Mar 1 16:28:53 2015. no,and it wasn`t backfilled either,just the S.I. shaft. |
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| (1341908) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 1 17:02:47 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by vfrt on Sun Mar 1 07:52:31 2015. How big in diameter is a shaft ? |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 17:13:26 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 1 17:02:47 2015. good question.depends on whats going down. |
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| (1341994) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by vfrt on Mon Mar 2 11:40:29 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Mar 1 11:03:07 2015. My mistake, you are correct about the location of the SI shaft. |
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| (1342766) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by menJop on Sat Mar 7 00:57:20 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 1 13:47:22 2015. That wouidn't even cover the EIS.EISs were a lot simpler back then: Environmental impact? (Circle one): Y/N |
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| (1342780) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 7 09:42:34 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 1 13:47:22 2015. It would with enough left over for pizza and light beer.your pal, Fred |
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| (1342781) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 7 10:08:10 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by menJop on Sat Mar 7 00:57:20 2015. No, it was more like:Environmental impact: who cares? |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sat Mar 7 10:32:49 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by blue8irt on Sun Mar 1 09:53:37 2015. ...i would say that a city that has five - count 'em - five mostly parallel four track subway lines passing through its core kind of knows how to get 'er done. |
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| (1342786) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 7 10:46:11 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by ntrainride on Sat Mar 7 10:32:49 2015. Wrong tense. It's a city that KNEW how to get it done. No longer. |
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| (1342840) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 16:10:57 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 1 11:28:28 2015. Hylan put it out for bids, but nobody wanted the job. The Pennsy Hudson River and LIRR East River tunnels were child's play, compared to tunneling under the Narrows back then. |
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| (1342850) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Mar 7 17:09:27 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 16:10:57 2015. it was started and built by city workers and city money. |
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| (1342864) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 20:00:13 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Mar 7 17:09:27 2015. For the first 150 feet, yes it was. Nobody bid on the other 99% of the project. |
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| (1342867) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 7 20:08:55 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 20:00:13 2015. We would never need a tunnel if they let (subway) trains over the Verrazano Br. But mean Mr. Moses saw to it that no trains would run on "his" bridge. The things he got away with...amazing.Thankfully, nobody has that kind of juice nowadays. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 20:33:40 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 7 20:08:55 2015. Trouble was, everyone was afraid of him. Finally, William Ronan, got Moses to bring in his Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority into the MTA fold, by making him an MTA commissioner. As soon as he joined the MTA and surrendered his power, Ronan froze him out of meetings. Moses resigned from the MTA in 1969 in disgust, but Ronan had gotten his TBTA prize- with its toll incomes. |
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| (1342873) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 7 21:53:39 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 20:33:40 2015. "Moses resigned from the MTA in 1969 in disgust,..."Sadly, by then all his damage was done, in terms of stifling mass transit growth. |
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| (1342876) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 22:40:07 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 7 21:53:39 2015. Look at it this way- Moses died in 1981. Imagine if he had refused to join the MTA. We would have had at least 10 more years of him, had he not quit the MTA in 1969. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 7 22:46:01 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Mar 7 20:08:55 2015. A liberal who hated trains. |
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Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Mar 7 22:52:45 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 7 20:00:13 2015. wrong,i,ve got 2 eyewitnesses,no connection to one another who were in the tunnels.they extend to senator st.which is more that 150st.and for a distance into the con ed.plant. |
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| (1343000) | |
Re: Staten Island Tunnel |
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Posted by Outside the Box on Mon Mar 9 10:20:54 2015, in response to Re: Staten Island Tunnel, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 7 10:46:11 2015. Bingo.We Had the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 9th Ave ELs. Contract 1, without the lower 7th Ave segment and the upper Lex Ave version ensured that there would be the IRT H. Then the BRT/BMT came in with the Broadway trunk. That created a 1920's era peak of 4 Els and 3 subways through Midtown. Downtown there were 2 El trunks and 5 subways. This was pre-IND. |
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