|
|
| Re: Subway Planning (1324085) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
Page 2 of 2 |
||
|
| (1325481) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 26 12:32:41 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 26 12:24:43 2014. I'm working on some schedules made in Excel to try and learn. |
|
|
| (1325590) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 00:03:40 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 26 12:24:43 2014. When doing work programs were buses always used back then as "subway shuttles" during a GO?Were GO's as frequent as they are now, it seems due to the complexity of the system there is some type of GO like every other day? Being work was done by hand, did you use track diagrams for affected line segments to create a service plan then physically cut the regular schedules to fit the "special" section into it? |
|
|
| (1325665) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 27 14:20:53 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 00:03:40 2014. At the time I started in scheduling all RT schedule makers were wither T/Ds or yardmasters so they had a good working knowledge of the system and where the appropriate switches were located. Also midnight GOS were 1201 A -500 A Tues to Sat with Sat GOs generally running till 600A. That meant no service disruptions on Sat or Sun nights. Of course GOs on elevated structures ran during the day and were usually, 900 A to 300 P M - F so that neither rush hour was impacted. Occasionally there were weekend GOs and those usually ran from 700A to 700P but those were only in cases where serious emergency work had to be done. Also, only one supplement per line was allowed so that for example there would never be a single track operation on the RR in both the Montague and 60 St tubes at the same time.We almost never had GOs that shut down entire lines necessitating buses to be used as subway shuttles except in extremely rare cases. During the period from Thanksgiving Day to,New Years Day there was a moratorium on midday and weekend GOs to avoid impacting on shoppers. When the TA decided to make up for years of neglect hours of midnight GOs were expanded so that some would start as early as 900 PM and sections of lines and even entire lines would be taken out of service for entire weekends requiring the use of subway shuttles with increased frequency. In All cases whether by hand or later by computer supplement schedules were generated to cover period of the service diversion. Usually the supplement schedules were designed to blend in from and to the regular timetable of the day mostly the daily, but as more and more work was being done and more supplements required, many times several supplements had to be blended into each other and the rules about not having more than one GO on a line or moratoriums on GOs during certain seasons went by the wayside. With the various departments seeking work to be done at the same time, the number of schedule makers was increased to meet the demand of the increasing work load. The supplement schedules were not spliced into the regular timetable but rather issued as separate items. For example, in the old days the present service outages on the Q and F lines into Stillwell would not be done over a weekend like Thanksgiving and into the first week of Christmas shopping when heavy passenger traffic was anticipated, but would rather have been done earlier or postponed till after New Years. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1325679) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 16:21:57 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 27 14:20:53 2014. Thank you and happy Thanksgiving.Watching the Working the A Train documentary the conductor stated 10 second dwell times at each station but obviously increased during rush hours. When making the schedules did you take the 10 times it by the number of stations that particular trip made (local vs. Express) then added it to the schedule? With the motormen he was called "710, A out of Far Rock" was that reference to the double letter timeperiod as well like say 830 double R out of 95th Street or Bay Ridge? |
|
|
| (1325701) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 27 17:54:52 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 16:21:57 2014. Actually, TA rules require that the C/R keep the doors fully open for a minimum of 10 seconds or longer if necessary which is why running times during rush hours are longer than non rush periods. In RT Schedules, the rule of thumb was to allow 30 seconds for each station stop. We used to figure that from the time the door opening buttons were energized until the door were completely closed was 15 seconds. The rest of the time was added due to the train having to decelerate to a stop and accelerate when leaving each station. I never really heard how a T/O called RCC for a trouble so I can’t say how they announce their departure times but it’s possible they don’t use all 4 digits when stating the time except for PM times or other times that absolutely require it. I’m sure there are people out there who deal with that all the time and could answer that question better than I can. |
|
|
| (1325707) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 18:37:35 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 27 17:54:52 2014. You said you were in scheduling around 1976-77 so I was compared the 1974 and 1978 subway maps to come up with the service patterns during your initial years this is what I came up with:1 242nd Street-South Ferry 2 241st Street-New Lots 3 145th Street-Flatbush or 135th Street 4 Woodlawn-Atlantic or Utica or Flatbush 5 Dyre Ave-Atlantic or Utica or South Ferry or East 180th Street and 241st Street-Utica 6 Pelham or 177th Street-Brooklyn Bridge or South Ferry 7 Flushing-Times Square SS Times Square-Grand Central and Bowling Green-South Ferry A 207th Street-Lefferts Blvd or Euclid or Broad Channel or Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park AA 168th Street-WTC B 168th Street or 57th-Coney Island CC Bedford Park Blvd-WTC RUSH HOUR ONLY later switched with E to Euclid and Rockaway Park D 205th Street-Brighton Beach or Coney Island E 179th Street-WTC or Euclid or Rockaway Park EE 71st Street-Whitehall NORMAL HOURS ONLY F 179th Street-Coney Island GG 71st Street-Smith/9th or Church Av J 168th Street-Broad Street K Eastern Parkway-57th Street RUSH HOUR ONLY LL 14th Street-Rockaway Parkway M Metropolitan-Coney Island or Myrtle N 57th Street-Coney Island QB 57th Street-Coney Island RUSH HOUR ONLY RR 95th Street-Astoria or Chambers Street(Rush Hours) SS Franklin Ave and Culver Is this accurate? This seems like a lot of variations in service patterns were these lines grouped in scheduling? Other than the M, QB, RR interlining, were there any others? |
|
|
| (1325708) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 18:42:25 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 27 17:54:52 2014. You said you were in scheduling around 1976-77 so I was compared the 1974 and 1978 subway maps to come up with the service patterns during your initial years this is what I came up with:1 242nd Street-South Ferry 2 241st Street-New Lots 3 145th Street-Flatbush or 135th Street 4 Woodlawn-Atlantic or Utica or Flatbush 5 Dyre Ave-Atlantic or Utica or South Ferry or East 180th Street and 241st Street-Utica 6 Pelham or 177th Street-Brooklyn Bridge or South Ferry 7 Flushing-Times Square SS Times Square-Grand Central and Bowling Green-South Ferry A 207th Street-Lefferts Blvd or Euclid or Broad Channel or Far Rockaway or Rockaway Park AA 168th Street-WTC B 168th Street or 57th-Coney Island CC Bedford Park Blvd-WTC RUSH HOUR ONLY later switched with E to Euclid and Rockaway Park D 205th Street-Brighton Beach or Coney Island E 179th Street-WTC or Euclid or Rockaway Park EE 71st Street-Whitehall NORMAL HOURS ONLY F 179th Street-Coney Island GG 71st Street-Smith/9th or Church Av J 168th Street-Broad Street K Eastern Parkway-57th Street RUSH HOUR ONLY LL 14th Street-Rockaway Parkway M Metropolitan-Coney Island or Myrtle N 57th Street-Coney Island QB 57th Street-Coney Island RUSH HOUR ONLY RR 95th Street-Astoria or Chambers Street(Rush Hours) SS Franklin Ave and Culver Is this accurate? This seems like a lot of variations in service patterns were these lines grouped in scheduling? Other than the M, QB, RR interlining, were there any others? |
|
|
| (1325866) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 28 16:18:15 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 27 18:37:35 2014. By the time I entered schedules in Dec 1976, the K had already been eliminated and during Rush Hours alternate Bs served 57 St and 168 St with selected rush hour trains being put in or laid up at Bay Pky. The EE had been eliminated and replaced with the N during the hours that the EE formerly ran. GGs terminated at Smith/9 St at all times and the F became a lcl N/O Church Av during rush hours but still had an express service between 18 Av and K/Hy in the peak direction of traffic. Alternate rush hour Fs (the ones that ran lcl turned at Kings Hwy with the earliest AM N/B lcl put ins going in service at Ave X. As hadn’t run to Rock Pk since Chrystie St that terminal being served by the E and later as you indicated the CC. I was actually in the schedule office until late 1983 when I became a trainmaster and in early 1984 was returned to the schedule office along with 2 other trainmasters who were former schedule makers to assist in implementing computer scheduling and making the necessary run time and work program adjustments necessitated by the numerous red tag (slow speed) areas in the system at the time. I don’t remember exactly what changes took place when at this point but I was directly involved in the implementation of the service changes that Involved making the midnight #6 a shuttle and the swapping of the south terminals of the 2, 3, 4 , and 5. |
|
|
| (1325882) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 28 17:59:19 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 28 16:18:15 2014. Thank you I was close!What was the reason for the swapping of the IRT Brooklyn terminals? So computer scheduling began in 1984 correct? What were the car types in operation between 1976 and 1983, and did car types affect scheduling at all like only R46's on the F, etc? |
|
|
| (1325886) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 28 18:52:32 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 28 17:59:19 2014. The reason for swapping the 2 and 3 in Bkln was to give the 3 equipment relatively full time access to Livonia Barn for inspection and light maintenance. Until that time the 3 equipment was being maintained at 240 Barn along with #1 equipment. Upgrading Livonia barn gave each IRT line its own dedicated maintenance facility. Swapping the 4 and 5 south terminals gave better continuity of service for the Lex Av services allowing for the 4 to use the E/Pky leg of the Bkln line at all times and sending the 5 to Flatbush whenever it ran to Bkln. Car types really had no bearing on scheduling since many BMT/IND lines had mixed equipment anyhow. The only thing that affected scheduling was the swapping of the N and R north terminals to give the R full time easy access to a maintenance facility. Prior to that, R equipment was based in CIY and getting a train from 95 St to CIY required a turnback move on the 4 Av mainline N/O 36 St which interfered with express service. During the period between 1976 and 83, car assignments were in a state of flux and although there wasn’t the degree of mixing equipment within trains like there was in late 1969/early 1970, there was s bit of mixing solid trains. |
|
|
| (1325897) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 28 19:40:26 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 28 18:52:32 2014. Taken from the NYCSubway.org website the cars operating those years were:BMT/IND R9, 10, 11, 16, 27, 30, 32, 38, 40, 42, 44, 46 with very few R1, 4, 6, 7 mostly gone by 1970. IRT R12, 14, 15, 17, 21, 22, 26, 28, 33, 36 Old timetables I have say there were different car lengths for different times of the day instead of the standard 8 or 10 like today. |
|
|
| (1325996) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Nov 29 16:13:49 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 28 19:40:26 2014. Not different car lengths but different train lengths. At one time, the cars service was included in the actual timetable. At some point, car service was removed from the actual printed timetable and car service was specified in notices that went into effect along with the timetable. That also meant that if ridership warranted, car service could be changed during a pick without having to issue a supplement for the actual timetable. I believe I addressed the variations in car services in my post. The only time that I recall car service being included in the actual timetable was the #6 in the early 1980s when trans that would normally turn at Parkchester went through to Pelham at the end of the AM rush so that they could be cut 5 X 5 for the midday. Just before the start of the PM rush, the 5 car Parkchester trains would run through to Pelham where they would be added back to 10s and the required additional 10 car parkchester trains would be put in from parkchester. The reason was that with there being only one relay tack N/O Parkchester and that didn't provide a proper facility for cutting 10 car trains and sending them back out as 5 car consists. Needless to say it didn’t last very long since it was a royal pain to operate. |
|
|
| (1326024) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Sat Nov 29 18:24:29 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Sat Nov 29 16:13:49 2014. Due to locations of the yards and current switches and "slow speed zones", Do you think services are at where they could be as in current service patterns for all lines not being able to be changed? Being in the past 50 years major projects implemented and trial and error of previous service variations have molded the system the way it is today. It seems the trains are a lot more uniform and little ability to add more or change current operations. |
|
|
| (1326381) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
|
|
Posted by BusRider on Mon Dec 1 22:59:31 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Sat Nov 29 18:24:29 2014. What year do you think had the most service variations/ confusions? |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
Page 2 of 2 |
||
