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| (1324132) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 00:27:55 2014, in response to Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Mon Nov 17 19:45:22 2014. Scheduling for both subways and buses is part of the larger “Operations Planning” dept of the NYCTA. Prior to the establishment of the OP Dept, planning was done by the schedule departments at least in Subways (specifically Rapid Transit Transportation, the ancestor of RTO). When the Gunn/Kiley administration took over the MTA, the Operations Planning Dept was created that combined the functions of rapid transit and surface scheduling as well as service planning for both subways and buses. |
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| (1324159) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by MR RT on Tue Nov 18 07:32:46 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 00:27:55 2014. There are sub-groups in different locations doing scheduling/planning for different parts of the MTA. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1324175) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 08:43:14 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 00:27:55 2014. Actually not true.Gunn came to NYCT in March 1984. Rapid Transit Operations Planning was moved out of RTO in the late 70s to form its own department. In November 1981, they added bus planning which was formerly based in Surface (Buses) and changed the name to Operations Planning. At that time it only had about 35 employees. subsequently it was expanded to hundreds of employees and traffic checkers were added after Gunn came on board. The traffic checkers were his idea. I know that because he told me so. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 18 09:52:03 2014, in response to Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Mon Nov 17 19:45:22 2014. Thanks. So from a planning perspective in subways you analyze fare data and track diagrams? |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Nov 18 09:59:54 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 18 09:52:03 2014. So from a planning perspective in subways you analyze fare data and track diagrams?And much much more! There's enough for everyone! |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 15:33:22 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by MR RT on Tue Nov 18 07:32:46 2014. True, but the OP was specifically asking about subways, When I worked in OP, our department handled strictly subways and buses and after I retired started handling SIR as well but not M/N or LIRR. |
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| (1324251) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 15:45:36 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 08:43:14 2014. Don’t take anything that David Gunn said as gospel. I once asked him why he had the R-10s painted green instead of fox red and he told me that it was because that was their original color and i did have the intestinal fortitude to inform him that he was mistaken and that the R-10s original color was not green but 2 tone gray offset by red/orange trim. Traffic checkers were also around long before he came to the TA. In the rapid transit schedule office we had ATDs assigned to us who performed traffic checking duties when needed and at other times performed other functions in the schedule office. I’m not sure how surface did it but I believe that when needed surface schedule makers were sent to the road to perform traffic checking. When Gunn came on board, traffic checking along with schedule making and service planning for both subways and buses was placed in the Operations Planning Department and at that time, part time traffic checkers were hired to perform the functions formerly done by the ATDs and surface schedule makers. The full transition of scheduling and service planning was completed in late 1986 when the schedule makers who were supervisors until that time were elevated to managerial status. |
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| (1324252) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 15:48:27 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 08:43:14 2014. I meant to type don’t take EVERYTHING David Gunn said as gospel. He did get certain things right. |
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| (1324254) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue Nov 18 15:55:49 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 15:45:36 2014. David Gunn was anointed by the press as THE savior of the place by the news media and it went to his head. He got the rolling stock in shape and that was about it. |
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| (1324257) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 16:16:39 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue Nov 18 15:55:49 2014. I was in Philadelphia during Gunn’s tenure at NYCTA and several people I spoke to told me that Gunn was regarded as a hero by many Philadelphians. Some SEPTA employees had a different opinion. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue Nov 18 16:20:56 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 16:16:39 2014. So do many of us in killing off the zone trainmasters and bringing in superintendents all over the place falling over each other, even hiring them from private industry who had ZERO railroading experience. |
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| (1324267) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:19:33 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 15:45:36 2014. I am not taking what Gunn said as gospel.I know that prior to Gunn there were no traffic checkers in Surface. What Surface had before Gunn were dispatchers who stood on street corners and noted times buses woud pass by. They did not count passengers on board the buses. It was also widely known that often the times noted we're te scheduled times buses were supposed to arrive, not the actual times they did arrive. This made the dispatchers look like they were doing a better job than they actually did. I do not know what happened in Subways. The month he arrived, he told me he was hiring traffic checkers to ride the bus, and the next month he did that. Surface planning and schedule makers did not shift to Operations Planning when Gunn came on board. I already told you the bus planners were shifted to Rapid Transit Operations Planning in November 1981, over two years before Gunn arrived. I am dead sure of the date because I was one of those planners and the reason why the planners were moved. Shortly after the shift, the name of the department was shortened to Operations Planning and actually it wasn't even a department but a sub-department or a division. The department was called "Planning and Budget". The bus scheduling section was shifted several years later and could have coincided with Gunn's appointment or happened in 1986 but I think it was before then. |
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| (1324271) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 17:47:54 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue Nov 18 16:20:56 2014. IAWTP. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 17:57:09 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Nov 18 17:19:33 2014. I know it happened in 1986 because I was one of the schedule makers who went into management at the time the transition took place and until then I was still in Rapid transit transportation which eventually became RTO. I took a voluntary demotion from provisional trainmaster in 1985 based on info that the schedule office was going managerial although the actual transition didn’t take place for another year. The transition was supposed to be done in 1985 but it didn’t happen. |
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| (1324298) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 18 19:55:17 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 00:27:55 2014. So what made service and operations smoothly back then when it seems more people rode then but theres more people now? I know Bill has said about signals, switches, timers, etc have been installed since then which makes the whole system slow down.So before 1985, traffic checkers and the amount of tokens (revenue as a whole and for each station and bus stop) determined the level of service, types of service, and where that service went? I recently was watching a documentary about Robert Moses on how he transformed New York City and it actually stated transit was the very few things he did not mess with. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 13:10:27 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 17:57:09 2014. And I know surface planners joined Operations Planning in November 1981, not when Gunn came in in Feb 1984. |
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| (1324382) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 13:12:11 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 18 15:48:27 2014. I think hewas premature to scrap the Grummans. That is one of the few things I disagreed with him about. Also workers were becoming ill from the chemicals used to combat grafitti. |
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| (1324390) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 13:33:55 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 18 19:55:17 2014. Revenue did not determine bus service before traffic checkers. In fact, bus service was not at all matched to demand outside of rush hours. The MTA and TA before them had absolutely no idea of what levels of service was needed outside of rush hours. Beach service and school service was totally inadequate. Each major school received two extra buses at school arrivals and dismissals which was usually grossly inadequate. It meant students clogged up regular buses and many riders on some routes could not get on the buses at all during those times.I used to take the B49 from Church Avenue to Manhattan Beach between 1965 and 1969. Additional buses were put on at Church Avenue. On a very nice day 90 people woud load onto those buses or the regular buses at that tie. although buses were supposed to stop every block, they woud only stop when someone needed to get off usually at a transfer point. If you were waiting at Avenue K or Avenue T and did not walk to Avenues J or U, you could literally wait for a bus from 2 PM to 5 PM and not ave a bus stop for you. In 1975 , when there was a budget crisis, and service needed to be cut, the riders were totally ignored. The MTA only looked at its budget and realized it could save the most money by cutting the routes with the most service, which were also the routes with the heaviest patronage. So rush hour service on routes like the B41, then the heaviest route in Brooklyn, and the B41 and B44 saw rush hour service cut by a whopping 50 percent. The MTA justified the cuts by saying you will only have to wait one or two minutes longer for a bus since service was cut from every two minutes to every four minutes. The private sector immediately filled the void with private cars taking people to the subway for a fee, followed almost immediately by limousines or as they were more popularly called " gypsy cabs" which were eventually replaced with "dollar vans" as the MTA refused to reinstate the buses that were cut. They measured their new ridership base which was 50 percent less on these routes and concluded that existing service was sufficient. It was not until free transfers between buses and subways that riders returned and bus service became more frequent enabling additional riders to use the bus system. Moses did not mess with mass transit because it was one of the few areas e held no official position. One time he held eleven different positions simultaneously, including Parks, Housing, Highways, Streets, Bridges and Tunnels. There are those who will argue he funneled money away from mass transit, but that is debatable, since his skill at obtaining funding for his pet projects also harmed hospitals, and schools as well as transit and other factors were also involved like the Great Depression and World War II. |
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| (1324407) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Nov 19 14:37:56 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 13:12:11 2014. History revealed that he had a hard on against Grummans.The RTS' also had cracked frames (bulkheads) and burnt up (SI 163X only a few months old). |
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| (1324415) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 15:22:35 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 13:33:55 2014. Interesting thank you for your insight. I was told back then there wasn't really schedules drivers often wrote their times in on paper an turned it in to dispatch to get accurate running times to adjust public schedules as needed, is that true? |
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| (1324426) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 19 16:32:57 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 15:22:35 2014. In 1977 shortly after I went into the RT schedule office, I, along with 2 TMAs was assigned to a project to look into coordinating subway and bus schedules in the outer boroughs especially during late night hours. At that time surface scheduling for both TA and OA was at the MABSTOA 132 St depot. Most of the schedules were hand written and then reproduced for distribution to the road and frankly did look as if they were jotted down by bus operators during their trips. Many of the schedules did not even have actual times for the buses at timepoints along the route but were more like running time charts which showed the departure time from the terminal and the running times to various points along the route to the opposite terminal. Although I didn’t see any work programs at the time, I can only imagine what they must have looked like. |
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| (1324442) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 18:47:32 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Wed Nov 19 16:32:57 2014. How did operators choose their runs back then for both Surface & RT if the schedules were inadequatly made. It seems there was more service back then all the way around so a lot of hand writing I assume.What was the planning and or scheduking like back then with little or no technology compared to today with the use of metrocard and electronic tools and data? |
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| (1324444) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 19:00:35 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 15:22:35 2014. There always were schedules. The detailed schedules were called "recap sheets" and everything was written by hand. I believe they started typing them in the 1980s. They weren't computerized until the late 80s or early 90s. I was out of planning by then so I lost track.Drivers did have hand written pieces of paper in front of them to help them keep track of where they needed to be at specific times so try knew if they were running early or late. I am unaware of them writing times down to aid in scheduling if they indeed did that. Back then if schedulers felt there was a problem with a running time, they would take a car and try to drive like the bus to mimic travel time to estimate traffic conditions. The problem with that method is they had no idea of what the dwell times really were. |
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| (1324446) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 19:03:41 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Nov 19 14:37:56 2014. And NJT who bought some of our discarded Grummans were able to successfully keep them on the road. Gunn very quickly analyzed the situation by quickly checking maintenance records and made a hasty decision. He came to NYC in Feb 1984, and I believe he made that decision only about two months later. |
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| (1324448) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 19:07:14 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Nov 19 13:33:55 2014. I meant to say "B46 and B44" not "B41 and B44". I already mentioned the B41. |
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| (1324464) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Nov 19 19:53:14 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 18:47:32 2014. What I think Randy was saying is this: You pick your starting time, days off, route and finishing time. It showed what time you were scheduled to leave each end point. It did not show intermediate times within the route like the paddle report shows today. |
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| (1324467) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 20:06:20 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Nov 19 19:53:14 2014. Ohhh okay thanks cause that's what I was thinking of, I'm like how does a driver not go through his day without a paddle or not mmemorizing it where they don't need one especially back then when from looking at maps various service variations that were around but then with no interlining that might have helped. |
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| (1324530) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 20 10:36:02 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 18 09:52:03 2014. Fare data only tells you what stations people entered on. (In NYC, not even where they leave.) It tells you nothing else about how people use the system. So obviously planners need to use much more data than just the two you mentioned. |
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| (1324541) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 20 11:25:03 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Nov 20 10:36:02 2014. That is true, but doesn't Metrocard data also show transfers and some exits? I thought there were some stations where you had to swipe to get out I could be wrong. |
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| (1324544) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Nov 20 11:48:57 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 20 11:25:03 2014. Only at St. George and Tompkinsville on the SI Railway. |
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| (1324585) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 20 17:17:29 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 19 20:06:20 2014. Rapid transit crews on NYCTA didn’t usually get an actual “paddle” like operators on other transit systems get although If I recall, the TA did try something similar with RT crews in the 1970s and I believe surface has it now. When I was a M/M if i wanted to know the running times for my runs, I would have to copy them from the timetable book and since I worked mostly vacation relief, it would have been a humongous task to write down the runs every week or two depending on how long I had the run and If I happened to have an RDO relief for those weeks, it was even harder so I didn’t bother. Also, in my unique case, I was a towerman prior to becoming a M/M so I was relatively familiar with running times on most of the lines anyhow. |
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| (1324587) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Nov 20 17:20:06 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Thu Nov 20 11:48:57 2014. And in those cases, passengers don’t have to swipe in at the other stations on the line. |
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| (1324626) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Thu Nov 20 20:27:02 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 20 17:17:29 2014. Today t/o's & c/r's have computer generated schedule cars for their job that not only list the origin & arrival times but arrival time at gap stations as well, similar to b/o paddles. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 20 21:57:38 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Thu Nov 20 17:17:29 2014. How were runs created though? |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 21 02:22:52 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Thu Nov 20 20:27:02 2014. I figured they would eventually have something like that by now but does that mean that an extra list or a V/R employee gets one when he/she signs on if they don't own a regular run? |
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| (1324660) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 21 02:31:52 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 20 21:57:38 2014. Which, bus or subway? Even with computers 2 different computer programs are used to generate both timetables and work programs for bus and subways although I understand that O/P is working on generating the subway schedules and work programs with the same Hastus computer program being used for buses. |
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| (1324680) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 21 09:14:46 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 21 02:31:52 2014. I would say subways. I have an old typed up timetable book for the IND/BMT weekends from like 1955-1967 it appears to be a typewriter. |
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| (1324736) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 21 15:33:57 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 21 09:14:46 2014. When I first started in scheduling in late 1976, the schedule makers wrote out the timetables and work programs on special sheets which were then given to typists to copy onto mimeograph (remember those?) to be run off on multiple. Later on, the schedules were typed on standard paper and photocopied for distribution. T make a work program, the schedule maker would copy the timetable with only the terminal points onto graph paper which was known as a “check sheet” and build the runs by copying the individual trips onto another piece of graph paper called the “work sheet” with the appropriate headings at the top of the page. The runs were built by copying the first trips of the starting midnight runs until a second trip could be added to the first one in accordance with minimum guidelines for recovery time and lunch periods. Midnight and AM runs were built forward until the early PM trips were reached at which point the schedule maker would take the last of the finishing PM trips and start building the finishing PM runs backwards into the early PM and midday. During this process, some trips would have to be moved between runs in order to properly balance out the work program until the schedule maker was satisfied with the number and quality of the runs. When the runs were initially generated they were consecutively numbered until the work program was finalized at which time the runs were renumbered with the 3 digit numbering system used by rapid transit scheduling: 100 series for midnight runs, 200 series for AM runs and 300 series for PM runs. Runs starting after 1000pm (2200) were midnight runs for the next days work and the midnight reports ended at 359AM (0359). Reports from 400AM (0400) to 1159AM (1159) were AM runs and reports from 1200 N (1200) till 959PM (2159) were PM runs. The finished work program was then handed off to the typists where they were transferred to the appropriate sheets for copying and distribution. Computer scheduling has changed this slightly and after the timetables are created in the timetable editor, the completed timetable is copied to the work program generator and the computer created the runs some of which may still have to be “dressed up” by the schedule maker to insure maximum efficiency and productivity. Many times, I was able to build all my runs by going forward but the forward/backward method was the recommended procedure. Which method the computer uses I’m not sure, but I imagine the computer program builds only forward. Although I have noticed it doesn’t occur any more, when I was in scheduling the schedules for all 3 timetables daily, Sat and Sun were set in such a way that they wrapped around across midnight so that after around 1100PM (2300) all the departure times were the same. That would mean, for example that the reporting times for all the midnight runs would,be the same for the daily sat and Sun work programs and the finishing trips for the last D/S/S PM runs would finish at the same time also. It might happen that some finishing trips for the last PM runs would actually be after midnight of the next day, so those trips also had to match across all 3 timetables. |
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| (1324748) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 21 16:15:09 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 21 15:33:57 2014. Interesting thank you! When using the forward/back method did it get harder when applying layover/recovery? Another topic post I just read that the QB was interlined with the QJ and M lines, how do you apply the layover when considering interlining? |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 23 19:34:16 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 21 16:15:09 2014. Also, in conjunction with the last post what measures determine the headways and local vs express lines in a borough? I've learned each line has their own superintendents so I assume each line has their own unique scheduling rules. |
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| (1325115) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 23 19:40:25 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Fri Nov 21 16:15:09 2014. Also, in conjunction with the last post what measures determine the headways and local vs express lines in a borough? I've learned each line has their own superintendents so I assume each line has their own unique scheduling rules. |
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| (1325205) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:33:12 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Sun Nov 23 19:40:25 2014. Minimum recovery and lunch times are determined by union agreements so regardless of the wishes of the individual line managers the work programs must conform to those agreements. As for the interlining, at the time the interlining between the M and QB, the concept of individual line managers had not yet been introduced to the NYCTA and zone trainmasters were basically in charge although the desk trainmaster in the command center had final say. Interestingly although the QB was technically a part of the M timetables and work programs some of the QB trips that terminated/originated at Astoria were part of the RR work program. Back then, due to the work rules, whether an Astoria QB trip went with the M or the RR work program depended on which would provide greater productivity. AM QB put ins came out of CI or Stl Yd and PM QB layups laid up there so usually, AM QB trips were starting trips for runs and PM QB trips were finishing trips for runs. By the way, the reason that selected QB tripos ran to/from Astoria was that they were needed to provide service on the RR Line out of Astoria so it was usually the first 1 or 2 AM QB trips that went to Astoria in the AM and the last 1 or 2 QB trips in the PM that originated in Astoria so that the could be where they were needed for RR Astoria service. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Nov 24 19:50:24 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:33:12 2014. So the QB was a rush hour only route? Has there been any other interlined? Is there any techniques you recommend or advice in regards to scheduling by hand? |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 24 23:03:35 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Mon Nov 24 19:50:24 2014. No. The QB operated at night and on weekends. The QT operated in its place during rush hours and during midday and early evenings. |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Nov 25 00:11:52 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 24 23:03:35 2014. In the 1970's the QB was a rush-hours only express from 57th Street to Brighton Beach (at first), and then Coney Island, express in Manhattan over the Manhattan Bridge, and all-local stops on the Brighton line. At first this version of the QB was paired with the QJ, and quickly paired with the blue M-train (that replaced the QJ, then the color black or dark grey on the subway maps of the time) on the Brighton line. On the subway maps of the time, the QB was a red-diamond, while the N-train was a yellow circle. On the subway maps of the time the Brighton line had the blue M-train, the red QB-trains, and orange D-trains. Yes, this was the time period when each subway route had their own distinct color - when though some colors were repeated on another division. (Both the #6 train and the N-train were yellow, then.)In a box somewhere, I have the folded pocket train schedules given out in the 1970's, where on the M-train schedule the QB trains were listed. Those schedules are very interesting to ride. In was in the 1960's prior to the Chrystie Street merger of the IND/BMT lines that the QB and QT train routes existed. Mike |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 25 07:39:47 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by Michael549 on Tue Nov 25 00:11:52 2014. Awesome, I've been trying to get some of those schedules whenever I see them on eBay. |
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| (1325332) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Nov 25 12:58:35 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Nov 24 23:03:35 2014. WE’re talking about post Chrystie when the QB became rush hour only service. |
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| (1325410) | |
Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 25 22:20:51 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by randyo on Tue Nov 25 12:58:35 2014. How much interlining is good without going overboard? Obviously business likes to save money but operators like overtime and less confusion. When hooking trips backwards using the forward/back method you should apply the layover first to see if the time fits with the above trip or other route options correct? |
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Re: Subway Planning |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Nov 26 12:24:43 2014, in response to Re: Subway Planning, posted by BusRider on Tue Nov 25 22:20:51 2014. Even building backwards, the appropriate layover and lunch periods have to be applied anyhow. If you have ever done any work programs which I have, you will see how it works. |
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