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| 76st. (1325021) | |
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| (1325021) | |
76st. |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 10:43:18 2014 if you click on nyc subways.org.you will see a photo of Euclid tower with 76st.on it,`nuff said. |
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| (1325023) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 23 10:50:53 2014, in response to 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 10:43:18 2014. 
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| (1325041) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 12:29:13 2014, in response to 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 10:43:18 2014. f you click on nyc subways.org.you will see a photo of Euclid tower with 76st.on it,`nuff said.If I go to Macy's after Thursday I can see Santa Claus. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1325044) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 23 12:37:49 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 12:29:13 2014. maybe so, but you cannot sit in his lap.ROAR |
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| (1325045) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 23 13:00:13 2014, in response to 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 10:43:18 2014. Dang. I actually thought of posting exactly that a coupla weeks ago. Either you're reading my mind or I'm starting to think like you. Frightening either way. |
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| (1325050) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 13:40:46 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 23 13:00:13 2014. LOOK AT IT THIS WAY"GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE"`NUFF SAID. |
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| (1325059) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Nov 23 14:21:19 2014, in response to 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 10:43:18 2014. No one has ever disputed that existed. The 76th St on the tower board at Euclid is common knowledge.There are (were until renovations) signs along QUeens Blvd in the tiles that said "To Queens & the Rockaways", but are we going to say the connection to the Rockaway Branch once existed? There is absolutely NO controversy that 76th St (and Beyond) was planned. The controversy is what if anything was built of the station shell. We know that the station shells at Liberty, Van Siclen, Shepard, and Euclid were all built before WWII began, and then construction stopped for years. That's where the loophole for 76th St exists. It could have begun with those stations at that time...... |
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| (1325060) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Nov 23 14:22:11 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 23 12:37:49 2014. Depends on what Santa is in to.... |
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| (1325069) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 15:16:45 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Nov 23 12:37:49 2014. maybe so, but you cannot sit in his lap.I think that Steve would let me sit on his lap if I asked him. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1325070) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Nov 23 15:17:19 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Nov 23 14:21:19 2014. And until the area around 76th Street is dug up we'll never know for sure. If anything is there, probably the remnants of a shell if even that. |
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| (1325077) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 23 16:49:22 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 12:29:13 2014. There is no Sanity Clause. |
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| (1325090) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 17:55:14 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 15:16:45 2014. I think he would let you do it too. |
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| (1325107) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 23 19:26:41 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Dan on Sun Nov 23 15:17:19 2014. The shell is all that anyone ever said existed. There were no track or signals. |
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| (1325108) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 23 19:28:13 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 23 13:00:13 2014. The 76 St station may also exist on Pitkin Yd’s model board also but unfortunately when I was the trainmaster down there, I never thought to look. |
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| (1325114) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 19:40:11 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by randyo on Sun Nov 23 19:28:13 2014. no mays about it.i,ve seen it at least a dozen time.for at least 10 years its been covered over by a piece of plastic in order not to "confuse"the tower crews. |
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| (1325121) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 23 20:15:15 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 17:55:14 2014. Elkeeper would ask Santa Steve to see those Fulton/Nostrand plans! |
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| (1325125) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 23 20:33:20 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Dan on Sun Nov 23 15:17:19 2014. That remonds me - I have to watch the next episode of, "Oak Island". |
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| (1325134) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Nyctransitman on Sun Nov 23 21:40:36 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Dan on Sun Nov 23 15:17:19 2014. I beleive the tunnel it definitley does exist. When I moved to City Line/Ozone Park back in 1967 when I was nine years old I heard stories about it while I was growing up. |
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| (1325141) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:39:20 2014, in response to 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 10:43:18 2014. how many times we've talked about this??? |
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| (1325143) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:42:50 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Nov 23 14:21:19 2014. right. B'way-ENY, Liberty Ave, Van Siclen Ave, Shepherd Ave, and Euclid Ave stations were all completed by early 1942. |
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| (1325144) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:43:35 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 12:29:13 2014. haha. |
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| (1325145) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:48:19 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 23 20:15:15 2014. Fulton/Nostrand station was originally planned to be a local station with a mezzanine. It was designed as one. The upper platforms are double wide which would have been consistent with the design of a mezzanine. The change was probably made in the early days of it's construction, probably after changing it to a more recognizable express format became impossible or too costly. That's why they decided to make it an express station instead. They decided this early on (as the tiles change color at Nostrand), but it was after the shell was already there that the IND probably decided to make it an express station. The express tracks ascend and decend, they don't curve too far outward, so there would have been enough to make a normal station at that point if they didn't already build a "local" station shell there before they changed the plans in the 30's. The express tracks and local tracks are not perfectly on top of each other like at other stacked express stations. They are in the middle, just on a different level. Nostrand Avenue is an after-thought express station. If the IND planned it as a stacked express station from the beginning, it would have platforms that look like those at Kingston-Throop Avenue, and the platforms would have been stacked right on top of each other, and the tracks right on top of each other. By the time it was time for the tiles, it was already decided that Nostrand would be an express station, having the express tracks go through what was originally planned to be the mezzanine of a local station. If it was planned to be a double-decker express station right from the start because of topography, it would look like Bergen Street. The underground ROW IS four tracks wide at this staation, not two tracks wide. The express tracks go up to what was supposed to be a mezzanine, and are still in between the local tracks, except they are one level up. The curtain wall between the local tracks on the lover level hides the big void where the two express tracks were originally supposed to go through. |
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| (1325147) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 00:40:03 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:42:50 2014. Bway East NY even had tiles....the others did not....but bway ENY didn't have metal for tracks and signals so the had to make Rockaway Ave the terminal. |
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| (1325149) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 00:42:52 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:48:19 2014. Yes....it absolutely was planned to be local originally and originally built as a local...but changed early on. |
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| (1325150) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Nov 24 00:43:34 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 00:40:03 2014. yup. |
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| (1325166) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 24 08:15:47 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:39:20 2014. 76 times |
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| (1325169) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Nov 24 09:29:44 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 19:40:11 2014. no mays about it.i,ve seen it at least a dozen time.for at least 10 years its been covered over by a piece of plastic in order not to "confuse"the tower crews.Then it's obvious what to do. Find a spot on the surface covered by a piece of plastic, peel it back and Voila! Word of advice: if the plastic is on the land of a homeowner with Rotties, be extra careful. |
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| (1325170) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Renee gil on Mon Nov 24 09:33:54 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Nov 24 08:15:47 2014. good one |
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| (1325185) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Mon Nov 24 11:42:06 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Nyctransitman on Sun Nov 23 21:40:36 2014. Aw fer crying out loud get a GPR unit and see if something is really down there, it wouldn't take that much time and end this debate once and for all, I believe there is at least a shell there. Karl |
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| (1325193) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 13:10:28 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Mon Nov 24 11:42:06 2014. I agree! Let's end all of this mindless speclation over a dirt/mud filled shell. Is this ALL that you guys have to worry about??? |
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| (1325206) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:34:34 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by TUNNELRAT on Sun Nov 23 19:40:11 2014. Yet its uncovering didin’ seem to confuse the Euclid tower staff. |
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| (1325208) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 24 13:36:14 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:39:20 2014. Its one of those things that will always be talked about. Frankly, its one of the few great subway mysteries left. |
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| (1325210) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:45:46 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:48:19 2014. Your theory makes sense except for one thing. Since the subway infrastructure along Fulton St id 4 tracks (or more) wide for its entire length it wouldn’t really have made sense to have the tunnel envelope narrow to 2 tracks wide just in the station area and fan back to 4 tracks wide after the station. The reason the upper level exp platforms are double width is so that the stairways to the local platforms would be exactly over them instead of like Bergen St where the staircases are in the walls. In an old NY Div ERA Bulletin there was an article about the construction of the bMT Centre ST Subway which indicated that one of the express stations on that line (I don’t recall which) was to have been built like Nostrand Av and this was long before the IND was even planned so apparently there was a reason why that configuration was planned and in the case of the IND adopted. |
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| (1325211) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:51:57 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Mitch45 on Mon Nov 24 13:36:14 2014. How about the existence of sections of 2 extra tracks along 4 Av in Bkln between 59 St and 86 St. According the a PSC report I’ve seen, Con Ed was requested to build its circuit breaker chambers along 4 Av in that area as sections of subway tunnel in case they should ever be needed to expand the 4 Av Subway to 4 tracks all the way to 86 St. |
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| (1325213) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:58:37 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 00:40:03 2014. Rockaway Av was the terminal of the Fulton St Subway long before construction started beyond that point. That was because there were several proposals for the location of the subway beyond that point none of which had been agreed upon till unification in 1940. If a final route had been decided on before then, it’s likely that the entire subway would have been completed before US involvement in WWII. As it was, since construction on the finalized route was not started until 1940 or maybe even slightly later it wasn’t able to be completed until after the end of the war. |
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| (1325215) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 14:01:25 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:48:19 2014. As originally designed, Nostrand/Fulton was to have been a local station with 2 side platforms. All 4 tracks would have been at the current local level of 54 feet below Fulton Street- fairly deep. In the late 1920's Brooklyn master planners envisioned a second business area, called the Central Business District. A new Fulton Street with a new subway, minus its elevated and trolley lines, similar to the plans for 6th Ave in Manhattan. Its epicenter was to have been at Fulton/Nostrand. They were buoyed when the Brevoort Savings Bank razed the old Fulton Theater in 1930, to build its main branch on Fulton St, just west of Nostrand Ave (north side). Nostrand Ave station was then redesigned in 1929/1930 to its present design and built as such. However, the foundations for the original station were built between October,1929 -January,1932, for this part of the IND subway construction. That segement was between St Felix St and Nostrand Ave. The original station was never built, just changed over the foundation. |
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| (1325216) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 14:05:55 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:58:37 2014. Another factor was the construction of the 6th Ave subway, between 1936-1940. |
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| (1325217) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 14:08:33 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:39:20 2014. You brought the subject up, Steve! |
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| (1325219) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 14:12:22 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:45:46 2014. Hopefully, I was able to answer that! |
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| (1325233) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 17:51:03 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 13:58:37 2014. Its clearly written in books like I under the Sidewalks of New York and others, that Broadway East New York was built before the involvement in WWII....but lacked the metal to finished my he track and signals to it.... That's why the tiles are old style IND rather than the new style east of it. |
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| (1325234) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 17:59:27 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 17:51:03 2014. In late 1938, the City went to court to condemn the buildings needed for construction of Broadway- East NY. The properties, on Truxton, Conway, and Fulton Sts. were officially condemned on Jan. 23rd, 1939. |
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| (1325237) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 18:30:05 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Nov 24 17:51:03 2014. Even if the station were not finished until 1940 or 41, it still would have had the old style tiles since that is what 6 Av had. It wasn’t until after WWII that stations were constructed with the newer style tiles which is why the stations S/O ENY were done that way as was 179 St and 42/8 LL which wasn’t tiled until the 1950s. |
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| (1325239) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Renee gil on Mon Nov 24 18:52:53 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 14:01:25 2014. hey, you wanted to know about nostrand/fulton, so I did my best and answered. |
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| (1325246) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Mon Nov 24 19:28:52 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Elkeeper on Mon Nov 24 17:59:27 2014. The U.S. Didn't enter the was until Dec 1941 |
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| (1325247) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Mon Nov 24 19:30:08 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 18:30:05 2014. Correct as I said Bway-ENY was done before the war |
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| (1325252) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Renee gil on Mon Nov 24 20:54:48 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by gp38/r42 CHRIS on Mon Nov 24 19:28:52 2014. exactly. |
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| (1325306) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Nov 25 11:34:36 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 23 20:15:15 2014. I didn`t forget you mikey,can`t seem to find the article in my files,but I will continue to look. |
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| (1325361) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Nov 25 16:30:50 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by tunnelrat on Tue Nov 25 11:34:36 2014. Offhand, do you remember the date on the plans? 1927,1928, 1929, 1930? |
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| (1325363) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Nov 25 16:36:24 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Renee gil on Mon Nov 24 18:52:53 2014. And I do appreciate what you posted, Renee! My only disagreement would be that the current Nostrand/Fulton station was originally planned to be a regular local station. Otherwise you had a very good posting. Thank you! |
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| (1325424) | |
Re: 76st. |
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Posted by Renee gil on Wed Nov 26 00:13:18 2014, in response to Re: 76st., posted by Elkeeper on Tue Nov 25 16:36:24 2014. no prob. |
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