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| Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs (1324847) | |
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Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 22 09:06:56 2014 Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First RunsThe IRT Livonia Avenue Line opens between Utica Avenue on the Eastern Parkway Line and Junius Street. New stations are opened at Sutter Avenue - Rutland Road, Saratoga Avenue , Rockaway Avenue and Junius Street. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by gbs on Sat Nov 22 21:24:01 2014, in response to Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 22 09:06:56 2014. I've always assumed that the original 1920's name of Sutter/Rutland was just "Sutter Avenue". When I used to visit my friend in that neighborhood in the 1960's (he lived on Winthrop St, one block south of Rutland Rd), I remember that the built-in station signs said only Sutter and the Rutland signs were added on separately. (The 1939 IRT system map already shows Sutter/Rutland.) This photo from 1963 confirms my memory: 
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Nov 22 21:26:12 2014, in response to Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Nov 22 09:06:56 2014. why was the center track built in the first place? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Nov 22 21:59:09 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Nov 22 21:26:12 2014. the center track at Junius Street was installed in the 80s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Nov 23 07:29:01 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by gbs on Sat Nov 22 21:24:01 2014. I've always assumed that the original 1920's name of Sutter/Rutland was just "Sutter Avenue".Yes it was but by 1948 it was already referred to as "Sutter Avenue-Rutland Road. I try to use a name that most current readers are familiar with. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 23 12:05:23 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by gbs on Sat Nov 22 21:24:01 2014. That neighborhood would become quite a bit different just a few years later as I recall.Also, I noticed the (3) was running from New Lots in this pic. When if so did the 2/3 swap Brooklyn terminals (and if so, only to swap back in 1983)? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 23 19:00:56 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Nov 23 12:05:23 2014. In the late 1950s, the IRT mad several swaps of south terminals. The Bway Exp (#1) originally went to N/Lots and 7 Av (#2) BxPk (or E 180) expresses went to Flatbush M - F. On weekends, the terminals were reversed and bway went to Flatbush and E 180 went to N/Lts. Booth Lex Wh Pl Rd and Woodlawn went to Utica with a select number of Wh Pl Rd trains going to Flatbush in rush hours. Midnight Bway Exp service also went to Flatbush and W/L trains went to N/Lts. Midday Lex service ran to Atlantic Av middays. Late PMs and weekends, Woodlawn service ran to So/Fy and Wh Pl Rd service ran to Utica Av. Midnights when Lex/W P Rd didn’t operate, Wh Pl Rd service ran down 7 Av Local to So Fy since 137 St Bway Lcls and lenox Lcls did not operate during midnights. With the assignment of R type equipment to Bway, the Bway exp became a full time service to Flatbush and E 180 expresses ran to N/Lts except during midnights when the service plan ran as previously. Bway Lcls ran from 137 St from about 600 AM till midnight and the Lex Pelham service ran pretty much the way it does now. In Jan 1959, the service pattern on the west side changes so ah all Bway service operated lcl and all Lenox service operated exp. At that time Lenox trains ran to Flatbush when they operated and E180 St trains operated to N/Lts. Midnight 241 St trains now operated to N/Lts as 7 Av expresses instead of lcl to So/Fy. About that same time the rush hour Lex service to Flatbush was provide by Woodlawn trains and the late PM and weekend service changes so that it was now the Woodlawn trains that went to Utica late PMs and Weekends and Wh Pl Rd trains went to So/Fy. Around 1960, it was decided to send the Lenox service to N/Lts and the E180 St (and now also Dyre) service to Flatbush except during midnights when the previous service pattern was retained. Circa 1965, the service pattern was changed again and Wh Pl Rd service became a full time 7 Av Exp to N/Lts. Lenox service was sent to Flatbush except during midnights when Woodlawn trains continued to provide midnight F/B service and Dyre and E180 service operated via Lex. Also originally the Lex Thru Exp ran exp all the way from 149/3 to/from Gun Hill Rd. When the Lex service was moved away from the Wh Pl rd Line, passengers at the lcl stations between Gun Hill and E180 lost their Lex service so to compensate the 241 St Lex thru Exps now made all stops between Gun Hill and E180. That pretty much remained the IRT service patten until 1983 when the south terminals of the 2 and 3 were reversed with the 2 being the full time Flatbush service and the 3 being the full time N/Lts service. At the same time the south terminals of the 4 And 5 were reversed so that 5s went to Flatbush during rush hours and 4s went to Utica until the midnight when they now went to N/Lts. The reason for the change of the 2 and 3 was that until then Lenox cars were maintained and inspected at 240 Barn with the #1 cars. N/Lts then became an inspection barn and the #3s were routed there to facilitate maintenance and inspection. I should be noted that although the R type cars did display route numbers on their end signs, their side signs carried no numbers so the trains were referred to by their route names of “Bway Exp,” Lex Av Lcl” etc and it wasn’t until the Chrystie changes on the BMT and the IND that the TA made the IRT route numbers official. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 23 20:29:19 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 23 19:00:56 2014. Randy, why did they remove the center track at Sutter/Rutland? I thought they used to use that to turn back trains which terminated at Utica Ave. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Nov 23 23:36:05 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Nov 23 20:29:19 2014. there was never a center track at Sutter Ave-Rutland Rd. there's only a center track at Junius Street station, but that was installed sometime in the 80s. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 24 06:58:51 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by gbs on Sat Nov 22 21:24:01 2014. That photo is interesting in another way- it shows the 3 running there. By the time of the first Chrystie map (the one with the NX) and right through the 70s, the 2 ran there, and the 3 went to Flatbush...I don't remember when they switched them back, and until now, I hadn't known they'd used the present service pattern before... |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 24 07:03:29 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 23 19:00:56 2014. Thank you. This answers the question I posed- and then some!! I was aware that IRT route numbers were not in wide use until 11/26/67, but were displayed on trains starting with the R12s..And here I thought you only knew the BMT :) |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Nov 24 14:09:07 2014, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac - November 22, 1920 - The Book of First Runs, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Nov 24 07:03:29 2014. I was raised on the IRT and IND and when I was appointed a C/R was going to select the IRT. However, when I was appointed, we were informed that our entire class was going to the BMT like it or not. I actually did arrange for a mutual swap with a C/R who lived near CI and was assigned to the IRT so I did qualify on the IRT as a C/R. When I learned that the BMT and IND would soon merged, I was advised by a union rep to cancel my swap which I did and ended up being able to pick a BMT platform job in Manhattan which was probably easier to get to than many of the IRT Bronx terminals I probably would have been assigned to. When I became a Tw/M in 1967, I had become so used to the BMT plus it seemed that the BMT had more tower jobs with S/S off than the other divisions so I opted to remain on the BMT as a Tw/M and as V/R M/M picked predominantly BMT runs. |
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