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| (1319538) | |
History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Oct 19 20:29:20 2014 From the ERA Bulletin 01/10. In-depth stuff for sure. Written by George Chiasson. Link has the entire issue, story starts on pg. 2.History of the F (and V) line |
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| (1319557) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 19 21:25:51 2014, in response to History of the F (and V) line, posted by ntrainride on Sun Oct 19 20:29:20 2014. Thanks for the link. Looks great. George Chiasson's articles are always detailed and of quality.But, I'm having trouble navigating the site. I click on your link, the title appears: ERA 2010-01. in the center of the page. Then the issue becomes visible but it is very small. There are bars at the top and bottom of the page. Top bar, is advertisement maybe? says something like "We've got a new app for you" Then in the middle space to the left of the reduced size bulletin there is green button that says "Follow" The bottom bar is white, has a blue button that says "You can publish too" How do I get rid of both bars, top and bottom, and enlarge the issue to readable size? Thanks. |
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| (1319562) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 19 22:20:58 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 19 21:25:51 2014. On my computer, when it displays that first page, there are a group of white-on-black symbols on the lower right. If I click on the one that shows a large page on top of two smaller pages, it displays a large version of the top of the first page. You then can scroll downward using the vertical scroll bar embedded in the document (not the browser one on the right edge of the screen), but I found the up and down arrow keys on my keyboard work better. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1319569) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 19 23:31:18 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 19 22:20:58 2014. Thanks, I was able to activate the features you suggested. |
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| (1319571) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 00:27:04 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Sun Oct 19 23:31:18 2014. GREAT info about F train service!! I've lived at the East Broadway Station my entire life, and 98% of people living in the neighborhood probably think the F train has stopped here since the station was built!! And actually until the '90's the station entrance still had signs for Independent 8 Ave Service!!! |
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| (1319573) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Oct 20 00:51:35 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by VictorM on Sun Oct 19 22:20:58 2014. When the content page opens, simply moving your mouse (without using mouse buttons) suffice for scrolling. |
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| (1319578) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 01:43:05 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 00:27:04 2014. I loved all the old signage. To bad they had to get rid of it. Yes, I know everything is much clearer now, generally for riders, (with the exception of the mistakes on the overhead platform signs that sharp eyes here (great job guys!) always seem to be pointing out), but all those signs for destinations like trains for Bay Ridge, Kingsbridge, East New York, express trains to Brooklyn etc. just gave the subway more character; not just as colored lines, but as trains that took you to a neighborhood, giving people a sense of city geography when you were underground, taking a train to get you to particular place.And the original names, 8th Ave. Subway etc. gave each division it's identity. And yes, I realize that after Chrystie st. IND/BMT merged routes, and it would be difficult for anyone but New Yorkers (and railfans) to refer to train by division, so yes, that had to be updated. Too bad we lost a little bit of New York's history and quirkynes though. |
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| (1319583) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 02:41:12 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 01:43:05 2014. I CRINGE whenever somebody says "The Orange Line" or "The Yellow Line" or "...take the B,D,F". My family being Natives STILL refers to the 4,5,6 as the "Lexington Avenue" or "The IRT" :) !!!! |
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| (1319586) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 03:12:55 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 02:41:12 2014. go to "Hughston" and the Avenue of the Americas. |
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| (1319602) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 07:40:40 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 02:41:12 2014. They are probably the Iowans, or someone from overseas, still, it's cringeworthy.And Hughston St.? just tell'em, "You're in the wrong state Buddy, ya want Hughston St. get a limo to Kennedy first." |
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| (1319635) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 10:49:30 2014, in response to History of the F (and V) line, posted by ntrainride on Sun Oct 19 20:29:20 2014. Great treatment of the rich history of the F line! Perhaps only the M rises up to meet the F in terms of dramatic service variations over time, and the M probably wins because it's very mainline has since been changed!Does anyone remember, for a short time before the July 2001 service changes that introduced the W line, that some select rush-hour orange Qs, instead of running their normal route (Queensbridge - 6th Ave - Brighton Express) would go Queensbridge - Broadway Lcl (or Exp?) - Montague - Brighton Express? I distinctly remember that they were regularly scheduled and that there were a few at least in the PM rush. I've always wondered why they did that. It meant that Montague at one point had the M, N, Q, and R, all going through it at the same time I think. Was it to supplement the N and R on Broadway? Either way, I benefitted from that a number of times as I was traveling from Court St to Kings Hwy (Brighton) in the PM rush and got a special direct express service to bring me there. |
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| (1319638) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 11:16:09 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 10:49:30 2014. Queensbridge - Broadway Lcl (or Exp?) - Montague - Brighton Express? I distinctly remember that they were regularly scheduled and that there were a few at least in the PM rush.Regularly scheduled service (even if only a few rush hour trains a day) connecting 57th-7th to Lex/63rd? Since most Qs would still be running between 57th-6th and Lex/63rd, that would mean a tower would be interleaving trains at the switches west of Lex/63rd. My guess would be that only happened when something went wrong somewhere, and not on a daily basis. I certainly never noticed and I rode the Broadway line from time to time then. |
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| (1319645) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 20 12:07:50 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 02:41:12 2014. Back when I first became a T/D in 1970, whenever I worked a line that operated for ant part of its route on a former BMT line, I used the old BMT line names on my train register sheets instead of the letter. Thus "B Line" became "West End Line," "D Line" became "Brighton Line," and QJ was either "jamaica Line" Or "Brighton Lcl" depending on whether I was working Jamaica or Stl. |
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| (1319652) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 12:38:18 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 07:40:40 2014. Its a lot of these newer transplants that "....git the A-C-E" or "...ride the RED Line deeewwdd..." |
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| (1319654) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 12:41:45 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 01:43:05 2014. Until prob the '80's there was STILL that black lettering on white background signage on the 6th Ave platforms. I distinctly remember the signs over the F train platforms. There was info about the F, but where they COVERED UP the K info, there was a sticker that explained going to Delancey St for Broadway Brooklyn Service. At Brooklyn Bridge's ITR station, there was an overhead sign that was VERY OUTDATED with service times to Dyre Ave or 241 St!!! |
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| (1319657) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 12:59:03 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 02:41:12 2014. How else would you describe the 6th Ave. line other than the B, D, F, M? These are very good helpful ways of describing all the trains that one could get on 6th Ave. Ditto with the other lines.I agree that using color names for the lines is wrong - but it's not only tourists. A lot of young people do that, extrapolating from the colors on the map, since it's easier than saying "B,D,F,M." |
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| (1319659) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 13:01:43 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 12:59:03 2014. I agree that using color names for the lines is wrong - but it's not only tourists.I agree that it really sounds weird. But should it? Other than tradition, why not use the colors to name the lines? As you say, it's easier to say "orange" than to say "BDFM". |
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| (1319660) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 13:11:05 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 13:01:43 2014. I have no philosophical objection to using colors. It'scjust that:1. It has never been done in NY. 2. The colors have never been promoted or advertised as line names. 3. The only reason there are colors is the result of a map change a few decades ago to improve visual clarity. Who knows, absent MTA buy-in to using colors officially, some future honcho could remove the colors from the map, or change them (it has been changed before as you know). |
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| (1319661) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 13:12:41 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 13:11:05 2014. True. |
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| (1319664) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 20 13:23:28 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 12:38:18 2014. I use the term "A-C-E" despite being a native New Yorker. I guess you could call me a "newer transplant" because I didn't live in New York before the 1980s. |
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| (1319668) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 13:35:20 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 13:11:05 2014. Around the world, it is common for a trunk line that opens up to various branch lines (at either or both ends) to be referred to with just one color and/or letter (e.g. RER in Paris). But in NYC that really wouldn't fly because the outer-borough branches sometimes provide service to multiple Manhattan trunk lines and some lines are express on branches while others are local.I personally don't think that naming trunk lines by color will get too far in NYC. It may be thrown around by those who are regularly in a spot where it's clear (such as 23rd St) but most commuters who leave Midtown know that the colors blur (no pun intended) rather quickly and so they will usually stick with the letter/number for referring to a line. |
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| (1319673) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 14:04:09 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 20 13:23:28 2014. I tend to use the individual letters because a trip I am describing is probably not doable by all the lines. For example, I might be going up 8th Ave from 14th to 59th, so I would say "A or C". Or if I'm going up 6th Ave from 14th I'd say "F or M."For the Lexington Avenue IRT I say 4-5-6 even though I rode it before those numbers were used. I never called it the Lexington because my trips usually were from GCT to 14th and therefore had nothing to do with Lexington Avenue. I used to call it the East Side IRT. |
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| (1319681) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 14:25:56 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 13:01:43 2014. Because the Orange line goes from Oak Grove to their Forest Hills. :) |
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| (1319683) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 14:31:48 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 12:59:03 2014. What color should we call the N, Q, and R trains?The young people are probably either transplants, (college students "from Minnesota"/ or working) or they're in from the 'burbs for a night out. |
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| (1319685) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 14:38:05 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 13:35:20 2014. I agree. |
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| (1319686) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 14:41:06 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 14:31:48 2014. I disagree. I have a 29-year-old son, born and raised in New York, riding subways forever, who uses color designations.Perhaps I was just a bad father. :-( |
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| (1319692) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 15:28:07 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 14:41:06 2014. There can be psychological elements too. Some people focus more on colors than shapes and characters. Just the way some people remember phrases of words better than phone numbers and vice versa. |
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| (1319693) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 15:32:34 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 14:38:05 2014. Then, of course, there is the London Overground system which is a few routes with branches that are totally unnamed, and depicted in the same color (orange). |
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| (1319701) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 20 16:05:12 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 14:04:09 2014. It was still the "Lexington" even though that part of it didn't actually run under that avenue. There were, and still are, lines that bear the name of a street that the line only runs over/under for part of its route. One of them was the Fulton St el which bore the name even though after 1940 the Fulton St portion of the line west of Rockaway Av had been demolished. Another is the IND "Smith St Line" which retains that name even on the portion S/O Smith/9 St that doesn't actually run under Smith St. |
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| (1319705) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 16:07:54 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 20 16:05:12 2014. There were, and still are, lines that bear the name of a street that the line only runs over/under for part of its route.I understand and don't even object to that kind of usage. I just never personally participated because I didn't think of it as the Lexington Avenue Line. |
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| (1319739) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 18:57:48 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 14:04:09 2014. I used the Lexington line between 33rd st and union square for 3 years and always called it the Lexington line. |
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| (1319740) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 18:59:38 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by INDviaCulver on Mon Oct 20 02:41:12 2014. I never hear people say green or yellow lines, etc. |
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| (1319741) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 19:01:29 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 20 13:01:43 2014. Its just not done in NY. Its a small percentage of people that would say orange lines, etc. |
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| (1319748) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 19:20:17 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 18:59:38 2014. You need to get out more! |
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| (1319791) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 22:21:39 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 15:28:07 2014. good point! |
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| (1319792) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 22:25:50 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 14:41:06 2014. nope, it wasn't you at all.each person views the subway & its routes differently, and yes I was generalizing a bit about people being from out of town etc. It's just that at the beginning of the summer I walked from Katz's through the village over to W; 10th St. the other side of 7th ave., everyone under 30; I don't know, I just got vibes that they weren't native New Yorkers. But I guess that really doesn't mean anything... |
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| (1319873) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:02:15 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 19:01:29 2014. definitely. and i've never heard anybody ever refer to any specific line by their color on the map. it's always "j train" or "number 4 train", etc. You do hear people using phrases like "14th street line" or "flushing line" but those are exceptions to the broady used nomenclature. |
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| (1319874) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:13:36 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Oct 20 15:28:07 2014. but in new york that can get you lost pretty quickly. idk, refering to single letters seems like a very efficient and simple way to identify a train line. and more precise than any other way. how can saying "blue train" be easier than saying "A train"? |
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| (1319875) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Oct 21 11:14:16 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:02:15 2014. i've never heard anybody ever refer to any specific line by their color on the map.I have, rarely. |
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| (1319876) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Oct 21 11:15:44 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:13:36 2014. If you're a tourist the A, C, or E may all get you where you want to go, because they don't diverge during your trip. "Blue train" is definitely easier to say than "A, C, or E". |
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| (1319878) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:21:42 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 22:25:50 2014. live in new york long enough, you can spot newbies or out-a-towner pretty quickly. it's like, i've never seen any photos of men dressed as women that i can't immediately see that they're dudes. you cannot fake the real thing :) |
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| (1319879) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:27:23 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by AlM on Tue Oct 21 11:15:44 2014. ...except to people suffering from colorblindness, of course :). |
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| (1319880) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 11:32:42 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 19:20:17 2014. being a new yorker i would of course look at those people with scorn, and set 'em straight. having lived in brooklyn i would tell them "whaddayou talkin' about, man??!!" |
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| (1319915) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by Express Rider on Tue Oct 21 16:06:30 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 19:01:29 2014. I would like to continue using the old names, but many people get confused if you do. BMT? IRT? Sea Beach? new generations just didn't grow up with themso I don't, or I'll say take the 4, Lexington Avenue Express, and they get it, but if I say take the 4, Lex - Jerome, they'll look at me like, huh? |
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| (1319969) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 21 21:38:09 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by randyo on Mon Oct 20 12:07:50 2014. Q - Brighton LineJ - Jamaica Line |
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| (1319982) | |
Re: History of the F (and V) line |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 21 23:41:35 2014, in response to Re: History of the F (and V) line, posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 21 21:38:09 2014. But immediately post Chrystie, the route carried the combined letters and was called the "QJ." |
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